 Poster: A snowHead
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is it not worth buying a full lift pass and only get the les saisies one?
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no, I'd go for the full one. The price difference is not very much, and both Crest Voland and the top of Notre Dame should be worth a visit. Though if you only have one kids are in ski school that might be a bit far - can't remember what your plans were.
If you feel like seeing the country, go across the ridge liaison to Praz sur Arly - be prepared to walk the first bit, then skate a bit.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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well i have my fingers crossed the forecast is wrong and a huge dump is heading your way  kids not in ski school, they just potter around with us, thats the way we like it, nothing too strenuous lol.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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well i have my fingers crossed the forecast is wrong and a huge dump is heading your way
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I'd be flabbergasted if there's a big dump of now before the end of the month. To do the ridge hike to Praz you need to walk a little bit, skis on shoulder, then across a pretty flat ridge track - a bit up, a bit down. It's not a huge deal but not really recommended for small children who can't skate a bit (or don't have parents able to skate and tow them).
There's plenty of skiing without going right over to the other side of the Espace Diamant.
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Pam, thanks for that, I am a bit worried that we are skiing and end up stuck. the kids are useless having to carry skis over their shoulders. looking at the saisies webcam the snow looks great so if it doesnt snow any more I hope the snow I see on the webcam remains. I have checked the weather forecast and it says that there will be some snow on wednesday. I will just wait and see I suppose.
Thanks
Karen
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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polo99, the ONLY trip I'd suggest you don't attempt with the kids then, is the ridge across. It would probably be worth a drive down to Praz sur Arly, plenty of free parking at the bottom of the fast 6 man detachable chair "Cret du Midi" and a great ski straight down again, blue and red.
If the kids are happiest on blues and easy reds (I think the blacks will be closed if there is no more snow) then you'd be fine with Les Saisies and Crest Voland (still need the ED pass for CV, though).
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Thanks Pam, we won't have a car so unless its on foot or skis we won't get anywhere, will the green that runs through the trees to notre Bella be closed?
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the green that runs through the trees to notre Bella be closed?
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I think you're thinking about the green run through the trees to Crest Voland. If your kids are OK on a red run I'd recommend going via the Sangliers - the green liaison requires quite a brave schuss to avoid skating. Sangliers is not a difficult red, if the snow's OK.
To get to Notre Dame you go through the Douce bowl - then turn left at the top of the Douce lift. You can get two and from ND on blue runs.
Depends a lot on the snow, obviously - as we all know, that makes more difference than the ostensible "colour" of the run.
There's plenty of skiing in LS, too. We're in UK at the moment, back on 1 Feb. Be happy to meet up and show you around any parts you haven't discovered.
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Hi Pam.
So the skiing looks good in les saisies and the link to crest volland is open via the sangliers? (how steep and narrow is it?) Not sure what we will be like on the reds but if anyone it will be me that doesnt manage not the kids, they have no fear haha. is the skiing in Crest volland ok too?
I keep checking the forecast religiously lol hoping it will change every hour. There are a few different sites I have checked but according to a couple of them (not all) there is snow forecast on wednesday and on Saturday.
Would be nice to meet up with you and get the grand tour, so maybe see you out there.
Karen
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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polo99, both links to CV were open a few days ago (the website shows which are open, day by day) but for someone who can ski a red run, the Sangliers is quicker and requires no schussing or poling/skating. The Sangliers is not narrow, and just has one steepish section. How difficult it is depends on snow conditions - before the last snowfall it got a bit bare and icy, but had signs at the top warning of both, and I wouldn't advise a nervous red run skier to attempt it then. Last time we did it, after the last snowfall, it was fine, but the run has no cannons so it might get a bit grotty again.
They are pretty good at warning (in three languages) at the top if a run has poor snow cover or ice, or even if it's hard. The signs are worth paying attention to.
The skiing in Crest Voland is mostly easy, with plenty of alternatives. It's a particularly good place to go if it's windy - it's lower, with more trees.
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snow holding up pretty well round this neck of the woods i have to say. Has helped that the weather has been as cold as it has but skied in Praz, NdB and Les Saisies and cover is hard but reasonable....those runs with cannons are in great shape and the massive mounds of man-made snow have been huge. The evening piste work is significant to patch things up but speaking to an english liftee working in the MountainTwister (well worth a go  ) he was saying that they are no starting to become concerned about the lack of fresh snow on the horizon and the peak season.
Is -9 outside in NdB 1100m and was as low as -13.5 just after Les Frasses on Sunday morning.
Hope some new flakes arrive soon
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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skinutter, good to hear you've found things OK.
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he was saying that they are now starting to become concerned about the lack of fresh snow on the horizon and the peak season.
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That must be true across much (?all) of the French Alps.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If I was a betting man I would bet money on there being a massive dump on the saturday of the start of half term causing travel chaos getting up the mountain, but providing a rejuvination of the pistes.
Stay optimisitc!
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thanks for the update skinutter. There seems to be conflicting snow reports. You look at one report and it says 3cm forecast tomorrow and also some on saturday and then you check another forecast and there is nothing but clear skys! I hope it holds out for another week. So basically you can ski the whole of the espace diamant but the conditions are hard? is that correct? hope you enjoy the rest of your holiday. Looking at the webcam is a bit out of date unless the same 2 people have been sat on a chair lift for a very long time
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You know it makes sense.
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There seems to be conflicting snow reports.
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polo99, if you mean weather forecasts, yes, there are some differences but the best way to grasp what's going on is to read the weather outlook thread here - where the reason for the uncertainty is explained. Personally I don't think there'll be any snow of significance in the Espace Diamant until early February at the soonest.
The Espace Diamant website gives details of which pistes and lifts are open - best look later in the day, after about 10 am French time. The pistes are not all open - (as I said earlier there are some which are very unlikely to open without fresh snow) but plenty are. It remains the case though that the higher areas - top of Praz sur Arly, top of Notre Dame and just about the whole of Les Saisies will be much better than the lower areas. And if you are a bit wary of red runs some of the runs with poor coverage might be a bit of a struggle, frankly. A lot of the closed runs are either blacks, or the lower "linking" runs in the Val D'Arly. Better to stick to the runs which are nicely covered - which means either the higher ones with a good aspect (ie not south facing) or the runs which are cannoned. The piste map shows clearly which slopes have artificial snow. I think you'll find plenty of skiing to be done. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks for the reply, i suppose I find it hard to visualise the ski area as I've never been. We are only week 3 skiers so will just keep to blue runs. When we were looking for a resort we chose espace diamant because of its large linked area and good snow record so as long as the area is linked and we can get some nice skiing in we will be fine. We liked valmorel last year, not sure of the size compared to les saisies. Whatever the case I know we will have a fab time! And I know the kids will love it too.
One question - if we set off skiing and don't check to see what runs are open to get back on will we end up stranded? Do I need to plan my daily route, write all runs down, then check and see if they are open? Sorry if I sound a bit thick but never been in this predicament
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 26-01-11 14:05; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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polo99, the Espace Diamant is a fair bit bigger than the Valmorel linked skiing.
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if we set off skiing and don't check to see what runs are open to get back on will we end up stranded?
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No. I can't think of any situation where that would be the case - when you wouldn't be able to ski back the village.
If you are going to stick only to blue runs then obviously that would limit you a bit, given that you don't have a car. You could still get to Crest Voland, but you'd need to go down the long green liaison path and as mentioned before it's a very flat start. If your kids can't both schuss and skate then it would be a drag poling it, frankly. the alternative red (Sangliers) isn't difficult if the snow is OK.
You can get to Notre Dame on blue runs and do some blues over there. Quite a few, really. You have ruled out the ridge hike to Praz sur Arly as the kids won't walk and carry skis (though that's only necessary for a short hike there are some further bits requiring skating/poling) and the "high altitude" route back involves a blue run which probably should be red and I wouldn't recommend it until there's fresh snow.
Have you studied the piste map? http://www.espacediamant.com/fr/espace-diamant-domaine.asp It's excellent - you can zoom in on any area you want.
Don't worry - it'll all be much easier when you're there. whichever lift you go up in Les Saisies, Crest Voland and Notre Dame de Bellecombe, there's an easy way down.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks Pam (again  ) that is a relief that we wont get stranded.
I think we will stick to the blues, we may venture on to a red if we are feeling brave (I know you have said in the past that there are not many severe reds), I suppose, once again it is the case of the unkown.
I keep looking at the piste map and trying to work out where we can go. thanks for the link. (which run is "the ridge"?)
I also wanted to ask - as we will be lunching on the slopes every day, are there any that should be avoided? bearing in mind we are more "burger and chips" than haute cuisine types. Nothing fancy so probably the canteen types would be better for us.
Looking forward to it. 3 days and counting!
see you there!
Karen
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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as we will be lunching on the slopes every day, are there any that should be avoided? bearing in mind we are more "burger and chips" than haute cuisine types. Nothing fancy so probably the canteen types would be better for us.
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there aren't any "canteen types"! the cheapest, and one of the nicest and most convenient spots, is right at the top of the village nursery slope. We call it the Laughing Café (proper name is Chalet des Frumiers) it was named that by my nervous sister in law as she was convinced people only sat there to laugh at her trying to get off the draglift. It has no inside seating - only a sort of a little marquee - so is best for warm sunny days. Chicken wings and chips (which we always share) is 5.90, and you can get ham, sausages, etc as well as sandwiches - nothing remotely haute cuisine. The only HC is the Ferme du Chozal down in Hauteluce - expensive but reportedly good, though it's at the bottom of a red run, so you might not want to go down there (though it's highly recommended as a run, if the snow is nice - and it's cannoned).
The Panoramique at the top of Mont Bisanne is the nearest to a "canteen" but nicer than that implies. OK food, OK prices, stunning 360 degree views. The Benetton - on the col de Lezette - has better food but is significantly more expensive. the "Chocolatine" boulangerie sells quiches etc at mid day and the butchers sells good helpings of freshly cooked chips at lunchtime too. The "Arome Antique" at the bottom of the Legette Chair is good - and you can get down there on a blue run.
In Crest Voland the Belle Metairie - big resto at the top - is excellent. Good food, friendly service. The Crets restaurant in Notre Dame (Mont Rond) is quite expensive and I've had a not-very-good pizza there. But their creme brulee and tarts are fantastically good - we usually share a plate of chips followed by a shared creme brulee.
But we rarely eat out, particularly in Les Saisies - we generally eat in the apartment. It's too expensive to eat out every day when you're there for some weeks and when we do it's usually in some more far-flung corner of the domaine.
There are some very nice places in Praz sur Arly (particularly Le Petis Tetras near the top of the Cret du Midi lift, which is tiny and full of character) and La Montagnette in Flumet. But I'm not sure you're going to make it over there.
The Dos D'Ane on the blue run down to Bisanne 1500 (which would be a very good, nice long run for you to cut your teeth on) has a nice terrace alongside the piste. Food not spectacular, but OK. That one is 50 metres from our apartment.
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On the subject of food.
Here is a way of calculating how long it will take you to ski off your lunch from Skiing magazine...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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nozawaonsen, I am obviously not eating enough - my portion of chips and a can of beer will keep me going less than 2 hours!
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skinutter, thanks! Wouldn't want you sliding down miles of ice just so I can have a steak and kidney pudding!
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Thanks skinutter, you have put my mind at rest. when i keep reading hard packed i imagine it being very icy. we went to valmorel last year and i am sure they would have classified that as "hard packed". fingers, toes and any other body parts crossed for snow but looking at the forecast here, i dont hold out much hope but I am really looking forward to it.
thanks for the update. Enjoy your steak and kidney pud Pam and hopefully see you when you arrive some time. Cant wait!!
Karen
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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We left les saisies at 7am on saturday and there was no fresh snow. However we had a great weeks skiing and most of the time it was sunny but cold. The snow was in very good condition on most of the runs in les saisies. A few places where you had to dig the edges in where there were icy patches. A few of the blacks were closed but that didn't bother us as we tend to ski reds/blues. I skied down to crest voland a few times. The green run was fine although when you get right to the bottom there was only snow on the green run and grass to either side. I hardly needed to skate. Seemed to go quite fast down it - maybe it is slower with fresh deep snow. The red run (sangliers) was a bit icy when we skied it first thing in the morning earlier in the week. There was lots of man made snow in crest voland and the runs we did were soft as they had the afternoon sun.
My husband skied over to the mont rond area and found the snow ok there. He found it hard to find his way around on that side and when he tried to get the bus to crest voland it had stopped for lunch so he had to come all the way back. It is cold enough that I'd imagine les saisies would be fine for quite a while longer with no new snow. However the rest of the Espace Diamant lower down could do with some real snow.
Pam - I loved the run down to bisanne 1500 - very pretty in the trees. However it was very icy at the bottom and that was a week ago.
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snowymum, glad you had a good week. I've never tried any of those buses to/from CV but all the buses stop for lunch (France!). It isn't that easy to find your way around Notre Dame - if we'd have been there I could have given you a bit of a guided tour. Sorry! Yes, the bottom of that run to Bisanne 1500, below the apartments, does suffer because it's low and south facing - but we only ever ski it once a day, in the morning, when we leave "home" so it's not a problem for us. Crest Voland does very well for snow quality, considering it's a fair bit lower - the top there is only the same height as the Col des Saisies.
By the sound of it, reading the snow reports this week, Les Saisies itself and Crest Voland have better snow than lots of other places in France (some pretty downbeat reports from 3 Valleys and Les Arcs amongst others) though I'm sure the lower parts of the Espace Diamant will not be worth visiting till there's proper snow. The first time we ever went to Les Saisies - just on a whim - the snow was better there than anywhere in the 3 Valleys (talking on-piste here, we don't really do off-piste). And that was similar to now - early January 2002 with very light snow cover and lots of very stony runs in the 3 valleys, even up in Val Thorens.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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well, all back safe and sound and the cold turkey in full effect 
All in all a great week, now have both kids on skis which is just what we wanted, one skiing reds confidently on a rock solid snowplough and insisting on shussing everything when he can and one withher first tentative steps on some hello kitty branded ski's which she loved.
Snow was decent in the main, a real mix if old, tired snow on some runs where there are no cannons to lovely sugary spring type snow and then lots of well groomed man made and mother nature stuff. I have to say with the cold temps, the lower extremes of the area we visited were in very good shape. We spent some time in Praz sur Arly(1000m) with them having a magic carpet lift which my daughter loved and th base area was covered in snow. They were making masses of snow in Notre Dame de Bellecombe where we stayed at the base of Quarts poma and as we drove past Flumet their cannons were on all day from what we could see. Snow was by far the best in the main Les Saisies area, good coverage in the main and excellent grooming as usual.
The Mountain Twister was a good laugh for €5 a pop and is nice and quiet between 1:30 - 3pm in the afternoons, much busier as you would expect as the lifts close...
Yet to be convinced of the value of the new chair at le Lac, seems to be constantly stopping and starting as people don't manage to get on very well - not sure if thats a combination of nervous skiers/children or the fact its a fixed style (i.e. don't detach in the stations) but was nice not to have to sit on a long drag in the cold which is often the case in the mornings.
We left saturday morning at 3am (due to people upstairs hoovering!?!?!?) so decided to hit the road and get home earlier, were in the supermarket at Cite d'europe by 11am
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ski nutter - please don't mention hello kitty  ...she was everywhere in the shops in les saisies and my daughter is hello kitty mad. In the end we managed to actually leave the resort with a tin of savoie biscuits and no hello kitty souvenirs - have promised a hello kitty birthday party instead.
My daughter also liked schussing and could not be bothered to turn when skiing with us. We had to schuss to keep up with her. Luckily there were lots of blues in les saisies with slight uphill sections suited to her style of skiing! I was slightly worried she'd hit the orange net on the steeper chenavelle run (la legette) but luckily we managed to get down it as a family of four!
My two had ESF lessons and each ended up in groups of 3.
We didn't do the mountain twister in the end but it looked fun.
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snowymum, skinutter, we travel back tomorrow - hoping it won't be warm and raining in the near future. You might be interested to know I had a PM this morning from a snowhead who visited Les Saisies some days ago, the day after a visit to the Grand Massif. He said "
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| It was unfortunate the black runs were closed due to lack of snow but having said that we skied all day and never did the same run twice. having skied in the grand massif the day before the snow conditions in saisies were far better" |
It's good to hear the cannons are going full blast, even though it's low season. The investment in a lot of new cannons and several reservoirs throughout the domain will be paying dividends this year.
I have a grand-daughter named Kitty. You can imagine what she gets for birthdays.....
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You know it makes sense.
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pam w, yep was suprised to see the retaining lake at the top of Mt Bisanne to feed the cannons, however it was almost entirely empty. Do they replenish from local rivers/streams or is it only naturally collected precip? Most of the water we saw running was minimal given the very low day and night temps so i suppose there could well be a natural shortage of water at the moment. Having said that the runs off the top were in great shape, my son loved the two blues split by the gentianes drag and Sangliers wasn't too bad (apart from both of us being wiped out by an out of control french snowboarder. grrrrrrrrr)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Had a very enjoyable day today with polo99 and family, over to Notre Dame - but only down to 1350. Snow (still excellent in Les Saisies) but was getting a bit iffier down there, in that there were some "plagues de terre", it was all perfectly skiable as the runs are mostly so hugely wide it's easy to avoid the rubbish,
Magnificent day, perfect temperature for skiing (hovering round freezing) and not a cloud in the sky. Les Saisies notably busier (ie once there were a good 18 people ahead of us in a lift queue though mostly we got straight on), no doubt because it has the best snow for miles around.
A snowhead who made his first visit to Saisies some days ago sent me a PM to say that he had found snow conditions surprisingly good and far better than the Grand Massif, which he'd visited the day before.
However, the forecast very warm temperatures are a bit of a bummer and things will go downhill fast if FL is 3000m+ for very long. Though the first few days of warm will be really, really, good. Looking forward to a bit of slush.
skinutter, that reservoir up on Mont Bisanne is filled by pumping overnight at cheap electricity rates - then they feed the cannon by gravity.
They weren't blowing snow here last night - it might be a bit warm now, or possibly it's not needed - cover is very good at the moment and, as you say, they need to conserve resources.
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Poster: A snowHead
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pam w, sounds like you are having a better season than many 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yes indeed - one view this morning. No ice in sight - practically no skiers either. Most pleasant.
Loads of grass down in the valley though - not that there are any pistes down there, of course.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Went to Crest Voland today. This is the top of the area - Mont Lachat.
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We found some bad patches of ice on the areas which get most sun, but this piste was great - and empty!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w, Looks pretty good - coming out to LGB tomorrow and will probably go to Giettaz for a day and maybe over to Notre Dame/Les Saisies if we get the chance.
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loatie, Do get in touch if you come over here - would be good to meet on the slopes. 04 79 38 46 11 or UK mobile 07895 642 987
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Glorious weather. For mid April. Breakfast on the terrace this morning, in pyjamas and dressing gowns. 
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pam w, Yeah, mid April feels about right.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Well, I am back from my week to Les Saisies and have to say we had a fab week, which was enhanced by a midweek meet up with Pam w and hubby who showed me and my family around. Lovely meeting you Pam, and thanks once again.
The slopes seemed to be holding out very well in Les Saisies and down to Bisanne (although one run was shut but not sure if this was to do with the chair lift rather than the run). we managed to do nearly every blue and green run around les saisies and we ventured on our own as far as the top of the douce chair lift. the blue runs seemed fine although the middle of the borlat run was starting to get a bit icy by the end of the week but not unskiable (and we arent that good at skiing lol). the belier and pechete runs (which are red) seemed to be suffering quite badly with lots of brown patches.
When we met up with Pam, she kindly gave us a tour of the the runs of mont rond, not really sure of the names of the runs we did, but they were ok, very skiable although a bit icy in places and what I did notice was that the blues seemed to be more severe than what we had been doing in saisies, well when i say severe, i mean more challenging lol, nothing we couldnt ski. One blue run, which Pam bravely took the kids down (might have been lac??) was really steep at the top and kids being kids are more daredevil than their parents lol, but there were 2 ways down, so me and hubby took the easy option. It just shows the versatility of the resort. If you want a challenge, it is there, or you ccan take the easy option.
we didnt venture beside ban rouge as Pam had showed us the return slope back (bllue) and although it had snow on, had that muddy icy look about it and was it was quite narrow, so we gave it a miss. there were people skiing down it, but hubby has a bit of a fear about narrow runs (like the runs that are really roads)
anyway, I am starting to digress and turning this into a report instead of snow conditions of slopes. Back on topic. we had skied across to crest volland earlier in the week and it was quite enjoyable with some really nice runs and most were in good condition, however, on going back later on in the week, the liaison green from les saisies was holding up well although was a bit icy in places.
we did the la gentiane (blue) and that was in great condition so we went back up and after lunch decided to do the green run la vardache which was fine until it came to the junction of the retour run down to logere chair lift and from there it was like sheet ice in places, some unavoidable and was very scary. it was also very bare. After that scare we decided to go back over to the les saisies side and didnt bother giong back which is a shame that we never got to experience a bit more as crest volland les saisies are definitley more our type of runs to cruise around with.
All in all we had a great week, plenty to ski on (espcially in les saisies) and they do a great job of keeping the slopes in great condition. I was disappointed that we didnt manage to see the whole of the espace diamant but that is just all the more reason to return! lol and I will be knocking on your door Pam, to show us the rest of the espace diamant (or maybe just look after the kids, now that you are bonded! lol)
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polo99, good to hear you're all back in one piece and Luke none the worse for having done the top part of the Gueux run (which used to be red, and is ridiculously steep for a blue....) on his back. Yes, parts of Crest Voland are poor now, and these very hot sunny days aren't going to help at all, with no prospect of using snow cannons.
Even with much better snow you'd be pushing it to see the whole of the Espace Diamant in a week - and as you observed, some of the rest of the domain is rather more challenging than Les Saisies. Hope you'll come back again in the future, for another bash at it.
we enjoyed meeting you all. My favourite moment was young Jack, after his brother had had that spectacular fall, saying not "My poor brother, are you hurt?" but "Mum'll never let us have a go at a red run now!".
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