 Poster: A snowHead
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Hurtle, thank you but I wonder if abominable would agree 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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gandie, Got mine in 2008 and cost around €500 (possibly €585???) That did include a bag at €35 and the custom foot beds at €60 (ish). Really happy with them. The buckles do seem to be the problem with them but I had one replaced in St Anton this year foc. They do supply them in Sport Alber (sp?) in St Anton but the main Strolz shop in Lech is the biggest supplier of them. The bootfitter in their Zurs shop has been recommended on here too. Don't know whether they're better than say an off the shelf foam job that CEM, or the likes could offer??? All I can say is that they're the best ski boots I've had but then again I've never had the priveledge of getting CEM, to sort me out with a pair of boots.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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boabski, Thanks for that, I still quite fancy a pair, but I am almost scared to admit it in this thread 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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gandie, You shouldn't be, what you are sayib=ng is you want a made to fit boot, a shell that coresponds to you foot shape and biomechanical needs, a custom footbed and an injection liner, the point here is that that is available from any good bootfitter, not exclusive to Strolz.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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gandie, Preferably from a bootfitter that can't spell. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| pam w wrote: |
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They are a boot to worn all day, day after day, with causing foot pain.
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a boot for the masochist, then? |
Oops change with to without 
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
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Except if you put on 3 stone in weight which fattens up the foot and you then have to wear thinner socks.
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I don't think this has any effect of feet mate. 1) there is no fat to speak of, a miniscule amount, if any on the foot. 2) the increase in weight would have to be so fast for the power structure of the feet not to adapt.
Pregnacy has all the symptoms you describe and is the the only process aside from serious injury that will effect feet, your not pregnant are you?  |
After I got hit with arthritis, I got to a state where I could not walk more than 100 metres.
I used to say I can't run, jump or ski but I can sort of walk.
I did not get exercise.
My tree trunk legs turned into twigs.
I put on heaps of fat.
My feet definitely have more volume than before.
It maybe only a few millimetres, but with a boot that once perfectly fitted, that is enough to be too tight.
Fortunately medicatation (methotrexate) has been very good at suppressing the arthritis.
2 years ago I returned to the snow.
I was struggling on my 194cm but too scared to try the new shorter skis lest they reacted unexpectedly and did me some damage.
Two years in row I was forced from the slopes by tweeking of my knees,
I realised I needed to rebuild leg muscle mass.
This year was much improved and when I finally took the risk with the shorter skis I found the effort to turn them was less than half my longs.
Now I say I can't run, jump but I can sort of ski.
I will have to careful not to put myself into awkward positions and conditions but I must make the ultimate test.
I am returning o the Alps this European winter.
I will either go home with my tail between my legs or stay the full 90 days permitted by a Shengen visa.
Either way I will KNOW rather than guess if I can expect to enjoy skiing through my retirement or not.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| Hurtle, I think you are right with that, of course the other thing apart from serious injury that affects the foot shape is also arthritis. |
I copped Psoriatic Arthritis big time especially in the most abused joints - my knees.
The warranty on human knees is 1 million moguls so my knees are out of warranty.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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DB, actually, CEM and SZK don't slag off each other's work.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hasn't been very edifying watching it.
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| DB wrote: |
IMO how the shell fits your foot is more important than from which manufacturer produced the boot. I have a pair of Strolz but don't use them anymore as they are not suitable for touring and my touring boots fit my skinny ankles / calfs better. As has been said a million times before the bootfitter makes the all the difference - a sports chain gave me the wrong Strolz shell at first but a trip to Lech sorted it out.
Two questions for the boot fitters -
1) when a boot shell is punched out does it remain that way or does it return towards it's original form? If so wouldn't a custom made shell be better than punching out standard shell for really problem feet?
2) Do they teach you at boot fitting school to slag off each others work all the time and really be bitchy to other bootfitters or does it just come naturally. |
I suspect that most boot "salesmen" (and saleswomen) deserve to have their work slagged off by the endangered species who are a genuine bootfitters.
From the many skiers I have met the so called "fit guarantee" comes down to how much time the customer is prepared to waste while a boot salesmen tries to rectify previous failures.
In the end they accept a "tolerable" fit and never get to experience the advantage of a perfect fit.
A boot fitted in the resort has the advantage of the customer being able to return to the shop daily but then the value of lift passes and accommodation is being eroded as the boot salesmen fiddles with the boot.
The guarantee becomes worthless once you move to another resort.
A boot fitted near home does not lose skiing time but is even harder to get right because the real test is when you ski in them.
Skiers need to demand "Get it perfect the first time you ........."
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You know it makes sense.
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Skiers need to demand "Get it perfect the first time you ........."
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To be honest, despite that being the case 90% of the time, that in my opinion would be commercial suicide. Big balls to the first man to do it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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abominable, a boot liner needs pack down to be perfect... to give every foot a perfect first time fit would mean boots too big for the majority
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Poster: A snowHead
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abominable,
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A boot fitted near home does not lose skiing time but is even harder to get right because the real test is when you ski in them.
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Those of us who live within fairly easy reach of a brilliant bootfitter (Bicester) and of a snowdome (Hemel) are truly blessed.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Hurtle wrote: |
abominable,
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A boot fitted near home does not lose skiing time but is even harder to get right because the real test is when you ski in them.
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Those of us who live within fairly easy reach of a brilliant bootfitter (Bicester) and of a snowdome (Hemel) are truly blessed. |
Those who live in the alps don't do too bad either.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| abominable wrote: |
A boot fitted in the resort has the advantage of the customer being able to return to the shop daily but then the value of lift passes and accommodation is being eroded as the boot salesmen fiddles with the boot. |
In the interest of balance, I beg to differ. I got fitted in resort, and went back twice for tweaks. Because the shop was open at lunchtime and until 7 in the evening the only time I lost was drinking time.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| DB wrote: |
questions for the boot fitters -
1) when a boot shell is punched out does it remain that way or does it return towards it's original form? If so wouldn't a custom made shell be better than punching out standard shell for really problem feet?
2) Do they teach you at boot fitting school to slag off each others work all the time and really be bitchy to other bootfitters or does it just come naturally.
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if a shell is stretched properly then it shouldn't return (unless of course you heat it up lots and even then it will only come back some of the way) the biggest problem is oftem shops do not heat the boot enough to guarantee that the stretch stays ...or if they do they don't let the boot cool sufficently to prevent it creeping back.... there is a fine line between hot enough to stretch well and molten boot on the workbench
the custom made shell is only a stock shell relasted over a shaped last so in essence it is the same, just the shaping is not done in the boot room but at the factory, so in theory the "custom shell" could shrink back...if the technician didn't get it hot enough....however i would think they have processes in place to ensure they get them hot enough... this and they are shaping the whole shell with a last rather than spot stretching, so they can heat the whole shell to a uniform temerature and as there is a last in it it should not get distorted, if you heat the whole shell then spot stretch with the majority of tools you will get distorsion which is why we don't do it!
as for your second question, i think it gets misunderstood, i am happy to work on a boot from another fitter assuming it is the correct size in the first place, the biggest problem is that as soon as i touch it it seems to become my problem, people often blame the last boot fitter that works on their boots for all the problems...if it was too big and i try to fill some volume and it isn't 100% perfect all of a sudden it is my fault that the boot is too big. bootfitting isn't complicated, but i am not a miracle worker
personally i like to be as honest as i can with customers, many places like to only work on boots which they have sold, or footbeds that they provide, me, happy to work on anything so long as people understand the limitations if it was not right in the first place.. litertally 10 minutes ago i refused to sell a pair of boots to a GB junior racer as thee parent was unable to get the child to me for a fitting and they wanted me to send the boots mail order!!!! as far as i am concerned there is no point as it will come back that they came from us if there is a problem
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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CEM,
Thanks for the answers. I suspect Strolz really come into their own when someone has a really 'non-normal' foot. The Strolz factory in Lech are probably better setup/experienced to make major alterations to a boot shell mold than your 'average' bootfitter. Most people don't need this and the off the shelf shell that best fits is probably the optimum solution in most cases.
The second question was tongue in cheek with a winky smiley. Of the bootfitters who post here you are the least guilty of this. I actually found it funny that Strolz started posting on here plugging his boots in every post and then accused you of spaming.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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infighting between "boot fitters" is common in the ski industry, just as it is with biuilders etc etc etc
personally speaking..... check your ego at the door and lets get boots that fit
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| CEM wrote: |
| infighting between "boot fitters" is common in the ski industry, just as it is with biuilders etc etc etc |
On the other hand you don't get any ski instructor squabbles.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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CEM: Your comments about Strolz and their philosophy certainly gives the impression that you are somehow personally annoyed and irritated at consumers for buying their products? Could this be that Strolz is somehow affecting your business? Why can't you admit that they are a legitimate alternative to your style/philosophy to custom boot fitting? Your approach is certainly NOT the only one or necessarily the even RIGHT one for everybody! Why are you implying that the thousands of Strolz customers, over the last few decades are all somehow a bit stupid and have been ripped off?
No one ever questioned the ability of a boot fitter (from what is said here such as yourself) to offer as good or even superior fitting -so why can't you admit that a Strolz boot, fitted by an equally qualified fitter can do the same? I don't buy the argument that Strolz are only for those "minority" of people who cannot be fit "off the shelf". Personally, I have tried both approaches -I wonder how many people here have done the same?? All of my "custom" fitted off-the-rack boots over the last 15yrs required several trips back to the bootfitter, lots of trial and error, factory liners thrown in to the garbage and what always felt like a compromise. In comparison, after only 3hrs total time, my Strolz fit 99% perfect the first time and have only gotten better as they packed down a bit.
It also seems that Storlz gets criticized mostly due to he fact that the main factory is located in Lech, which has a reputation for catering to the lifestyles of the rich and famous. I can certainly understand this but it's really not based on any facts. From all of my research, any boot of equal quality with equal customization are all priced about the same... (caveat: I don't consider 100euro +/- to be a significant difference when your talking about 500+ euro boots.) When people quote cheaper prices in order to somehow prove their boots were better "value" they forget that they're not comparing apples to oranges. For example, a boot sold by a shop in the middle of the UK is NOT going to cost the same as one at a major resort in the Alps. Like I said before, the alternative boots from Lange that were offered to me, with custom footbeds and foamed liner cost MORE than the Strolz. To me the Strolz were better "value".
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ludwigk, you twunt. He said nothing of the sort. For the record I have never brought boots off him (or SZK) and neither of them need my business. And you only to have to look at the tiny number of Strolz boots to see how little effect they have on anyone's business.
All anyone is saying here is that any one promoting what Strolz do as a unique approach to an age old problem is disingenuous, and that actually their shell range may be more limited than that available elsewhere.
Got that now?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ludwigk, please go and reread every post that i have put on this thread!
then come back and tell me where i am irritated by people purchasing their products, currently my only annoyance is you as you have from what i can see not read my posts fully or if you have you have edited them in your mind to draw the conclusions that you have......
1 they certainly do not affect my business in any way, my diary is fully booked for the next 10 days and for weekends until mid November, as you can see i am therefore sh!tting myself 
2 THEY ARE AN ALTERNATIVE, i have never said that they are not...... that is not the argument, again if you read the posts you will see that the argument is that they claim to (well the UK dealer seems to claim to ) be the ONLY custom ski boot on the market, this is simply untrue, as soon as any boot fitter adjusts a ski boot in any way, stretch, grind, cant, etc then it is a custom boot, truly unique, i have said it before and will say it again as you obviously can't be bothered to read the thread EVERYONE is UNIQUE therefore EVERYONE requires a different solution, for some that is an off the peg boot with no adjustments, some it is an off the peg boot with a custom liner, footbeds and loads of grinds and stretches and for others then it may be a strolz or a daleboot (who incidentally do not claim to be the only custom boot on the market)
3 strolz takes a wooden/metal/plastic last and adds bits to it to mimic the foot then adjusts the shell using this modified last, a GOOD bootfitter selects the shell, and then adjusts it by looking at the foot in the raw shell , marking it and adjusting as and however required...... much the same end result, please WHY can't you accept this, maybe, just maybe the fitters you had seen in the past just weren't good at adjusting boots or missed some biomechanical problem that the strolz fitter picked up on, maybe as you say you have unique feet just like everyone else on this forum and the unique solution that worked for you was the strolz.
i can't see your feet so have no ideas of the problems that you have had, but what i do know is that i have 23 years experience in fitting boots and over that time have a lot of satisfied clients, i have sent a few people to get a strolz boot or a daleboot when i feel that it is the best option for their feet
it is not about the product whatever the brand, it is about the guy making the adjustments to it as required...... pop over to epicski and see that there are a number of satisfied strolz clients and equally a number who felt it wasn't for them, oh and if you want a fight about it, go post on TGR i am sure you will fit in just great over there
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ludwigk, It seems here that you went to a shop that was going to offer you a choice from a range of Lange and the Stolz range - in your case and with only those choices the Stolz was obviously the best choice for you, but how do you know that it can't be improved upon?
I wonder if you went to a large boot store, that offered every advantage that the likes of SMALLZOOKEEPER, or CEM, can offer you AND offered the Strolz service and the Lange boots that you had seen and we assume you were fitted by the best boot fitter on the planet and what you and he both wanted were the best fitting boots whether you would still have walked out with same Strolz as you currently own?
Perhaps it is worth giving the question some thought and opening yourself to the suggestion that maybe you wouldn't have done. I accept the fact that maybe you would as your feet might just have suited the Strolz above everything else, but that doesn't mean that everyone will find their solution in the same way, and I think this is what folks on here are try to convey. The feet of the world are highly unlikely to all fit into 4 custom fitted Strolz shells as the best option, some might - just as for every person there seems to be a modified shell and footbed/lining mechanism that will fit (and I include Strolz in that group) and I think it is likely that for some people they might be the choice of our bootfitting god for them, but just as many might not. So long as Stolz accept that then I think that things are fair, but do they?
N.B. I am not a bootfitter and have no experience with fitting boots, but there seems to be a lot of bootfitting testosterone flying round here. Maybe a little give and take from some fronts and thinking about biological variation is in order? Why limit the choice to 4 modified shells when the option exists to choose from a larger range? Err..........You can fit some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you won't fit all of the world all of the time well, not with just 4 shells anyway - why try? When greater choice exists? Surely Strolz would agree that at the end of the day it is only fair to give the skier with sufficient cash to throw at a project the best fit possible regardless of make? I get the impression that this is what bootfitters are there to do.
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Megamum, I confess to a tendency to skip-read long posts, but surely that, give or take, is what CEM just posted, isn't it?
Anyway, the important point is...I've blooming well run out of popcorn. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Hurtle, Yes, I think so, the trouble is that some of the antagonists here are perhaps ignoring the acknowledged experts on purpose, but might just read the occasional post by someone else I'm just going at it from science and biological variation which is something I understand - greater choice must surely be the way forward with everyones' product having a role to play.
N.B. Did I get that apostrophe correct?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Megamum, no.
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Poster: A snowHead
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DB,
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Those who live in the alps don't do too bad either.
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Duh.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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this is sweet, jah.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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white, no sugar for me, thanks
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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DB, we offer 10 freeride shells, to avoid using all the different ranges, touring etc. it represents a small amount of the total available, maybe 20% of all available moulds on the market. to be honest, like strolz, we perhaps use 4 shapes most commonly, the others are cover and minor differences in shape, lasting, but display a willingness to explore and update our knowledge, sometimes we are surprised by what fits and feels good, despite our ever expanding knowledge of the market.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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DB, CEM stocks quite a range of boots these days
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DB, 38 models to be precise with 22 different lasts
as below
atomic.... STI, TI, CS, M tech, B Tech, Live fit
head RD, RS, Vector, Edge
salomon X3lab, X3 (98mm), Impact, Quest
Lange RS wide, RX, RX pro
Rossignol Radical WC, electra pro
Dalbello, Scorpion WC, Scorpion 98mm
dynafit titan
+ womens options in what is available, but not listed them seperately unless like the elctra pro form rossi we do not have a mens exact last equivilent
think that covers it
so as Arno has said quite a range
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Plus - although I have this only on hearsay evidence - excellent pies.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FAQ
