 Poster: A snowHead
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11. Go to Austria
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks, all, I will take all tips on board.
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Actually, take a plane instead and appreciate the beauty of the T.O. transfer
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Moffat, no choice sorry - stuck to half term - and TOs just too expensive ...
One further question if I might. If we plan to sleep at Reims on the friday night and leave early (say, 6am or 7am); is it worth pushing through fast or will we just hit particularly horrendous traffic jams at Lyon or at the approaches to the resorts. Or is it better perhaps to take some time (leisurely breakfast, proper lunch somewhere) and hit the resort later (someone mentioned after 8pm) to avoid the worst of the traffic. In other words, although I appreciate it will be bad whenever we hit the resort - at what times are the really nasty (or nastiest) "rush hour(s)".
Thanks again.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| 11. Go to Austria |
Which part of France is that in? 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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TheManOnTheBus, Seen a 50 mile tail back from Chambery to La Plagne (thankfully on other side of road ) at 5pm in the afternoon. I don't think that would have shifted before 8pm. I would go as early as possible.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Would love to for all sorts of reasons, but couldn't cope with the additional drive
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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TheManOnTheBus, The earlier you get to the resort the less traffic but check with the accommodation what happens if you arrive early. At worst you will have to have a leisurely lunch in a restaurant a stroll around perhaps buy lift passes get piste maps etc find the hire shop, visit tourist info and find out whats on the week you are there etc etc.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 19-10-09 10:04; edited 1 time in total
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| thefatcontroller wrote: |
| TheManOnTheBus, Seen a 50 mile tail back from Chambery to La Plagne (thankfully on other side of road ) at 5pm in the afternoon. I don't think that would have shifted before 8pm. I would go as early as possible. |
Thanks! Will do.
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| TheManOnTheBus wrote: |
Would love to for all sorts of reasons, but couldn't cope with the additional drive |
Calais to Alp D'Huez = 930km
Calais to St Anton = 1002km
(according to Via Michelin)
You can't stand another 72km? There will be nothing like the traffic going down through Germany that same day.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| 11. Go to Austria |
Which part of France is that in? |
The civilised part.
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| Moffat, no choice sorry - stuck to half term - and TOs just too expensive ... |
TheManOnTheBus, bizarrely enough, our only self-drive turned out more expensive than subsequent T.O. packages which have all been booked within 2 0r 3 weeks of travel. Never travelled at half -term though but always during children's Xmas or Easter holidays.
Compare 4 people in a car for
P&V rental ... say 750 Euros
Ferry / Tunnel ... say 250 Euros
Fuel (from England) ... say 250 Euros
Tolls ... say 150 Euros
Total 1400 Euros
to
4 x Last minute T.O. at Christmas or Easter at say £250 per head ... £1,000
Return fuel to airport ... say £20
Car parking at airport ... say £40
Total £1,060 British pounds or call it 1150 Euros.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| moffatross wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Moffat, no choice sorry - stuck to half term - and TOs just too expensive ... |
TheManOnTheBus, bizarrely enough, our only self-drive turned out more expensive than subsequent T.O. packages which have all been booked within two weeks of travel. Never travelled at half -term though but always during children's Xmas or Easter holidays. |
I am beginning to regret this, but we have already paid a deposit on an apartment. There are two families (seven people in one car) - and brochure prices (ie not last minute) for self-catering for an apartment big enough is something upwards of £600 (during half-term): a total of £4200 (ignoring a little discount here and there for a couple of children). Compared to an apartment (and the travel costs you itimise) at Euros 1200. We think we are saving at least 2K! Maybe we are not.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Mon 19-10-09 10:39; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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TheManOnTheBus, bear in mind that people on here just love to make things far more complicated that they really are. Look at viamichelin to estimate your petrol/toll costs, and if you want to avoid traffic, drive at times when it's likely to be quiet (come on, you must know how to do this - you live in a country which generally consists of one big traffic jam  ). If TO packages are really coming in at £4000 you will certainly save a fortune.
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TheManOnTheBus, I think everyone works out the costs of the car trip very differently, (I have even had people on here argue that my toll costs are wrong when I was quoting them from my CC statement!) Where you have a massive saving is over the stress of airports flying etc that you get these days particularly stressful with kids. Of course you can't put a cost on that. I have been driving over for the past 25+ years and have hit bad weather twice in all that time.
Half term is fine as long as you get in and out early before the masses. From La Plagne that means leaving at 07:00 but then you have a clear run all the way home, another hour or two later and its queing at every oppurtunity.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| TheManOnTheBus wrote: |
Would love to for all sorts of reasons, but couldn't cope with the additional drive |
Calais to Alp D'Huez = 930km
Calais to St Anton = 1002km
(according to Via Michelin)
You can't stand another 72km? There will be nothing like the traffic going down through Germany that same day. |
Hmm. You are right of course - but although the distance is not much different, I had thought that the drive itself (leaving traffic aside!) was much more on motorway if you go to France - whilst (on my route planner) I seem to have to cross the whole of Switzerland to get to St Anton. Perhaps next year!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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TheManOnTheBus, the fast way to St Anton is actually mainly through France, crossing over into Germany around Metz/Nancy area (no more or less motorway than going to AD'H). Personally, I still prefer a longer route via Belgium and Germany because you avoid tolls and you're not constantly looking over your shoulder for plod and his radar.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| TheManOnTheBus wrote: |
| I am beginning to regret this ... |
TheManOnTheBus, don't regret it as the end result will be the same i.e. a great holiday with family or friends and a new experience. Unlike Boredsurfing though, I don't find the experience of "flying etc that you get these days particularly stressful with kids" but our own experience of the self-drive journey was negative. Collectively then, we are now prepared to risk a late gamble on low cost TO availability which has so far paid off each time but I don't know whether fortune will favour that strategy this coming season.
Bodeswiller's Bavarian suggestion might tempt me into driving again one day but only when I've swapped my current mid-life crisis car back out for a diesel estate again.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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TheManOnTheBus, we drive because we prefer it, and we can take the dog with us.
I priced out the trip using several different travel options a couple of years ago and there was very little difference in the cost of flying and driving. But all of these wer DIY options, i haven't booked with a tour operator for several years.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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moffatross, If I lived in Scotland I wouldn't dream of driving to go skiing.
The thought of having to fight around the M25 and then the A1 or M1 having driven across France would be just too much.
I have driven London to Edinburgh a few times in the late 80's and IFIRC the trip took betwen 6 and 8 hours. Calais to the Alps takes 8 hours!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Horses for courses. Have lost count of how many 'Driving to the Alps' threads there have been. As someone who drives, am quite pleased that some people at least still go par avion
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I have been driving over for the past 25+ years and have hit bad weather twice in all that time.
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Very very lucky then, IMV, but then again, I am almost praying for a storm to drive through as long as it is heading for the alpes...
We drive because it is the best way for US to travel....everyone has their reasons be it financial, space or whatever. Horses for courses
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Ford, you wouldn't use the A1/M1, and it takes eight hours from the south coast to Edinburgh.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 19-10-09 13:05; edited 1 time in total
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TheManOnTheBus, Don't regret it. It is fine. Lizzard,'s comment about everyone having 100 different opinions is right. You will have a fantastic run down through some very beautiful countryside, and the sight of the Alps popping up in the distance is WONDERFUL. Yes, you might queue a bit at the tolls, [but in all the years we've been going, I remember one big jam once]. Yes you might get stuck in a jam [but you could get stuck in the UK, or the ferry could sink, or you might forget your passports, or or or].
There is a bit of DULLSVILLE motorway through the Champagne - ususally good for 'What are your top 10 favourite dinners/cocktails/sweeties/films' debates but other than that it is just another adventure.
Do it and then tell us all about what a great trip you had.
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| MarjMJ wrote: |
| TheManOnTheBus, Don't regret it. It is fine. Lizzard,'s comment about everyone having 100 different opinions is right. You will have a fantastic run down through some very beautiful countryside, and the sight of the Alps popping up in the distance is WONDERFUL. |
Thank you. I won't!
| MarjMJ wrote: |
| Do it and then tell us all about what a great trip you had. . |
Thank you. I will!
Last edited by After all it is free  on Mon 19-10-09 16:04; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Absolutely worth the 2 euro fee for whichever months you use it. And you can still get the Tesco points, just depends which credit card you have connected with the Telepeage thing doesn
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Take great care as nearly all the UK based cards -both debit and credit will now charge a transaction fee in addition to the amount charged -On short tolls this can double the cost and you would perhaps be better off with a Nationwide card or the FairFX card, pre-loaded in Euro's.
Any snow head who uses the FairFX link on my website and orders a free card will see half of my small commision as an affilaite donated to SnowHeads. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| TheManOnTheBus wrote: |
Thanks, all, I will take all tips on board.
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Actually, take a plane instead and appreciate the beauty of the T.O. transfer
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Moffat, no choice sorry - stuck to half term - and TOs just too expensive ...
One further question if I might. If we plan to sleep at Reims on the friday night and leave early (say, 6am or 7am); is it worth pushing through fast or will we just hit particularly horrendous traffic jams at Lyon or at the approaches to the resorts. Or is it better perhaps to take some time (leisurely breakfast, proper lunch somewhere) and hit the resort later (someone mentioned after 8pm) to avoid the worst of the traffic. In other words, although I appreciate it will be bad whenever we hit the resort - at what times are the really nasty (or nastiest) "rush hour(s)".
Thanks again. |
If I was going to a resort up the N90 - Les Arcs, La Plagne, Ste Foy, La Ros, Espace K etc then I reckon I'd aim to leave Reims at 4am which should get you to Lyon around 7 and give you some chance of making it up the N90 before the tidal flow really kicks in but then I detest queues. Actually I would have gone longer in the 1st stint and aimed to stay around lyon myself.
Looking at the French holiday dates http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=55341 then it looks like you'll only be competing for roadspace with the locals and Brits rather than the Parisiennes so that has to be a bonus and taking that and based on Helen Beaumont's comments then I guess you could leave it a couple of hours later but to me it's one of those journeys where an hour earlier departure = 1hr 30 minutes earlier arrival.
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bertie bassett, I am interested to see that everyone in Paris is female.
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You know it makes sense.
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bertie bassett, good job he isn't going to anywhere along the N90 then.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Lizzard, pedante...
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Poster: A snowHead
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try to avoid Lyon. It seems to have the worst jams even on ordinary sort of transfer day.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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TheManOnTheBus, My thoughts: Work backwards fom the worst pinch point in the journey which is the final stretch - Grenoble to Vaujany. Arriving at Grenoble at any time after 10-11 am on the Saturday will potentially be very grim (4 hours to do the last few KMs is not unheard of) so you really need to either push on well past Rheims and catch a few hours kip in a CC accessible hotel or stay in Rheims as mentioned, get a very early start and expect to still hit plenty of (hopefully moving) traffic.
Whichever way you do it you will likely hit some traffic, we always go Rheims-Troyes-Dijon-Bourg En Bresse-Lyon Airport route and reckon 8.5 - 9 hours from Calais to Oz en Oisans just up the valley but we never travel on peak days, preferring to take the kids out a day or 2 early and take the rap from the school!
As has already been mentioned once you're there you can forget the car and you will have a great time, the ADH area is awesome (OK I am slightly biased!).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Nick Dawes, we must try and come over and ski there this winter.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Helen Beaumont, Would love to give you a guided tour!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Had a particularly pants flight last year (leave home 9am arrive destination 1 am, scheduled eta 7pm - queues for food at Chambery Airport about 5 miles long on arrival at 10pm (when it was abundantly clear that the catered chalet's special welcome meal would be well and truely over)) so am more receptive to the concept of driving this time than I was the previous year when flying was relatively painless. Driving gives you far more control (or at least it feels like it does) as you can try to navigate around problems or just say "forget it let's stop at that aire and have a snack". Food is better on French motorways than at most airports as well! You can even bring a drink in the car and don't have to give in to airport/airline prices for anything you want to drink en route. In your car, you only have your own children to make a fuss, and if they are a pain, you can use the privacy of your car to tell them to behave without worrying about what the other people in the airport/on the plane think of you. You also don't have the worry of weight limits for luggage and whether or not the luggage will arrive in the state it left (or at all).
Price-wise, with self catering you can save a lot of money by bringing basic stuff from home and buying on the way rather than in resort supermarkets. At the very least with better planning than I've ever managed, you can avoid the proliferation of salt and pepper and the abandoning of washing up liquid and hand soap that you don't quite trust not to leak. If we drive out for self catering again, I'm planning on bringing the at least following from home: rice, pasta, pesto, salt, pepper, tobasco, soy sauce, stir fry sauce, curry jar, fajita kit, washing up liquid and brush/sponge, cereal. Planning meals before you leave can also help - then you have a shopping list for the supermarket rather than ambling around picking up what you fancy and then trying to make meals out of unconnected items (can you tell I'm trying to learn from previous mistakes here). Fruit and veg could probably also come out from the UK leaving only fresh meat, milk and bread to buy on the way or in resort. That way the food should cost little more than you'd spend at home anyway, so it isn't a "holiday" cost. Also helps on the wine and beer prices and you can detour via a Carrefour in one direction or the other and stock up on booze for the next 6 months or so which also reduces the "cost" of driving.
The pinch points seem also to apply to the TO transfers, so although you are the one having to drive, people on the TO coach are probably more likely to have had to "wait for the
Manchester flight" or the person who has to fill in a claim for delayed luggage and haven't got the freedom to dodge the traffic by leaving at a time of their choice.
A couple of the people we were sharing a chalet with last year didn't fancy the available transfer times (they were flying independently from GVA the following day so leaving at 5am was unappealing to say the least) so they booked a private helicopter transfer - which strikes me as about the only way to avoid the transfer day traffic...
British credit cards don't always work in the toll lanes (didn't 3 years ago anyway - we seemed to confuse at least 1 car of brits last time) but I still have a French bank account card (sadly rather empty) which I use for tolls and pay at pump petrol stations.
I'm sure you won't regret it - having booked very late 1 year and then booked early the following year I know which I'd prefer, especially for a peak week like half term.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Randomsabreur, most if not all of the pay at pump points, and toll booths now take Uk cards without a problem.
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
| Where you have a massive saving is over the stress of airports flying etc that you get these days particularly stressful with kids. Of course you can't put a cost on that. |
Given that he is talking of 7 people from two families in one car, I suspect that will be a lot more stressful overall than flying would have been. I would certainly find it so, and I like driving.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| Ford, you wouldn't use the A1/M1, and it takes eight hours from the south coast to Edinburgh. |
If you are heading to Edinburgh from Dover, there is no other rational route than to use either the A1 or M1. (preferably A1)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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alex_heney, agreed. And how will you fit in all the luggage if the car is full to the brim with passengers.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
| Given that he is talking of 7 people from two families in one car, I suspect that will be a lot more stressful overall than flying would have been. I would certainly find it so, and I like driving. |
Oh Hum. Probably right, but it was a price thing. By the time we looked it was £300 to £400 per person for that week to any Alpine-near airport! And brochure prices for TOs were £600-700. So a big saving.
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FAQ
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