 Poster: A snowHead
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pam w, We also drive 4-5 times a year and have been seriously thinking of buying a car and leaving it in our garage there and catching the train to Bourg. Does anyone leave a car in France and commute via plane or train?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Frosty the Snowman, Those were the days, eh!
I once did the trip in a 1600cc Cavalier, that was due to be changed as soon as we got back, with an old fashioned roofbox on top. If I got enough speed on the downhill bits I could get up the hills without needing to change out of 5th and fond memories of playing chicken with the fuel gauge on the last few miles into Calais 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ahhh....the good old days lol.....i've driven there in a Allegro, Mk 1 XR2, a Cortina estate and various knackered Transits. They all got me there, but not always home!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| FtS is right. 30-50p a mile at least or you are kidding yourself |
Unless the vehicle is leased and then it isn't a problem. |
Well it does, as the lease cost of your car and the value they take it back that is the basis for the lease amount you pay monthly is determined by the mileage you do. Or are you saying that you can do whatever mileage you want in your car and it won't effect the lease? I suppose in reality they only expect your car to do the daily trip work at the hair salon and back 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Now you're just being plain silly.
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So you have a car that does 60 mpg on a trip to the Alps
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No but that is less than the theoretical motorway consumption for my car. Driving on the motorway I can get just over 50 as long as my enthusiasm to get to resort doesn't overcome me.
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you have a car that has parts that wear out over time rather than by useage
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No I don't have a car that the parts wear out by time (hence the fact I put in the replacement parts above), I lowered the price per mile based on the fact that some parts are replaced at service time regardless of their state.
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you have a car that is not affected by mileage depreciation
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I thought this one was fairly easy to understand, apologies if you are struggling to understand me  I am going to keep my car until it is worth about £3K, given that the difference in price for a car around the 3K mark for slightly below average mileage and slightly above average is negligible how would you like me to quantify it. A 10 year old car with 60,000 miles on the clock is not worth significantly more than the same car with average mileage, it's still a 10 year old car and is valued as such. Is this really that hard to grasp? 
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a car that can drive 1000 miles in a day
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Why can't it? Do you think it gets tired after a certain distance and needs a sleep?
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a car that crosses the channel for free
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Yes and no, I use my Tesco Clubcard vouchers and so get free crossings. I am not so daft as to think that my vouchers don't cost me anything but I shop in Tescos anyway.
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a car that when it gets old and worth not very much money you will happily service once a year and still drive to the Alps in
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Yup that's what breakdown cover is for, the common rail diesel engine in my car is pretty reliable as far as I can tell. I'm only doing 15K a year so I'll happily service it once a year. Or am I missing something? Do brake pads wear out quicker and quicker as a car gets older so you have to change them weekly when a car is very old?
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a car that doesn't need to carry snow chains
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I do carry snow chains, not had to use them in anger though as we go early and late in the season. Do you really want me to spread the £20 cost of this over all the trips? Given that I don't use them they should last forever, what is £20 divided by infinity?
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a satnav that has European breakdown and repair cover for life
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Nope I'm on about this year, I will then look to renew it with the cheapest quote. I will be taking breakdown cover for UK usage so I need to take account of the difference between UK cover and European cover.
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We run a small fleet of commercial vehicles and they have a safety inspection every 6 weeks. Based on experience I would never allow a car to go 12 months between services/inspections.
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IMHO I think there is a big difference in the requirements for a fleet vehicle and a personal vehicle. Fleet vehicles tend to be driven a little differently from a car you own. My car doesn't go 12 motnhs between inspections, I check the oil and water, check my lights work, know the signs of a worn clutch, brakes etc. It's not a spaceship it's a car. I would hazard a guess at those inspections being tax deducatable as a legitimate business expense. I bet if your company had to pay for them you'd be doing it once a year like us
You aren't winding me up, it has brought to my attention some of the hidden costs but 50p a mile as above I don't think so <G> I agree driving isn't for everyone, I'm lucky my kids are good travellers, there are some kids I couldn't imagine being stuck in a car for a day with. If I could afford to fly us out there I would, but we do budget trips so we can go twice a season instead of just once. I would prefer to drive twice than fly just once.
Saying that I have had nightmare trips by plane with delays, waiting for buses for transfers, waiting in a car park for an hour with a 3 month old baby because the minibus to shuttle us up to resort went missing. Trying to manage a 3yo a 3 month old, 2 suitcases, a snowboard bag and a a couple of rucksacks in to the airport, out of the airport, on to a bus, off a bus, on to a minibus, and off isn't plain sailing either. At least with driving we load the car up and pop them in their seats. I'm not saying it's for everyone but there's definitely a substantial saving to be made for us as compared to flying the 4 of us about in the school holidays.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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TotallyBoard, do please let me know if you are the chief accountant for any significant firm. I will then make sure that none of my investments has anything to do with it.
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thefatcontroller, If I have to do an extra trip to the salon it's only 10p extra a mile
How you getting on with the tray?
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| masmith wrote: |
| chances are, if you're driving, you won't have the wear and tear on your luggage as you would when flying, don't forget that in your micro costings |
I disagree. The baggage handling may create marginally more wear, but the actual traveling will offset that, being both less vibration and for a shorter time.
But given that all my suitcases are at least 20 years old, and cost a total of under £20 each, I don;t think that would be a significant cost anyhow.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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achilles, my accountancy is more based in the real world than some of the tricks accountants use
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Fogliettaz, I've thought about it, but 1) we didn't buy a garage (price was a rip off), and 2) they don't let our dog travel by Eurostar. It would cost us at least £150 each time we go to the Alps, and we go about 4 times per year.
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You know it makes sense.
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Boredsurfing, you are confusing me with someone that isn't skint
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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thefatcontroller, So many punchlines so little time ......
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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thefatcontroller, get out of your shed, take off the cling film and step away from the Mars bar
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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achilles, which bit do you disagree with? I have to say that "haha you're not an accountant" gives me nothing to argue against. I'm looking at what the cost is to me personally and think I have looked at *my* specific circumstances and tried to work it out, rather than just picking a figure of 30-50p a mile out of the air and using that because that's what someone says it costs. I'm discounting my standing costs for the purposes of working out the cost of my trip (becuase I have to pay these anyway) and then tried to work out the actual cost based on my attitude to depreciation (running my car in to the ground) and the performance/costs of my car. Isn't that a better way of doing it than using a general figure?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I like the way the AA includes "AA subscription" in their calculations for running costs...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| TotallyBoard wrote: |
<snip>
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a car that can drive 1000 miles in a day
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Why can't it? Do you think it gets tired after a certain distance and needs a sleep?
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No, but the driver(s) do.
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a car that crosses the channel for free
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Yes and no, I use my Tesco Clubcard vouchers and so get free crossings. I am not so daft as to think that my vouchers don't cost me anything but I shop in Tescos anyway.
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That is certainly not "free" crossings.
At best that means you are getting the trip for 1/4 of the face value of the vouchers, since you could spend them for that face value in the shop, but you get the ferry crossing with the vouchers classing as 4 times the face value.
But there are things in the shop where you get double value, and plenty of other things where you can spend them at 4 times value.
So I would say that regarding the ferry cost as being 1/2 of the face value of the vouchers you use is more realistic.
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a car that when it gets old and worth not very much money you will happily service once a year and still drive to the Alps in
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Yup that's what breakdown cover is for, the common rail diesel engine in my car is pretty reliable as far as I can tell. I'm only doing 15K a year so I'll happily service it once a year. Or am I missing something? Do brake pads wear out quicker and quicker as a car gets older so you have to change them weekly when a car is very old?
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Right. So unless you have a very modern car you are not counting service cost because you don't service it as often as you should.
Unless the car is very recent, the service interval will not be as high as 15K miles, it will be set at probably 10K or 12K. Some recent ones (model range less than 4 years old) now have higher intervals, so if you have one of these, fair enough.
<snip>
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You aren't winding me up, it has brought to my attention some of the hidden costs but 50p a mile as above I don't think so <G> I agree driving isn't for everyone, I'm lucky my kids are good travellers, there are some kids I couldn't imagine being stuck in a car for a day with. If I could afford to fly us out there I would, but we do budget trips so we can go twice a season instead of just once. I would prefer to drive twice than fly just once.
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Well 50p/mile is on the high side, but most cars, based on reasonably average usage and retention are going to come out at 30p/mile+
If your usage/retention is way off average, then it will be different.
It is also very true that the cost difference is very dependent on how many of your are in the car.
Somebody traveling by themselves will almost always be cheaper to fly.
3-4 people will almost always be cheaper to drive (even if 2 of those are children).
With 2 people, it is going to be quite close to break-even, depending on the actual air fare, how far the drive is, etc.
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Right I'm convinced, driving is killing my car. Next year we're walking. Anyone know the depreciation on shoes over 1,800miles?
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| thefatcontroller wrote: |
| Right I'm convinced, driving is killing my car. Next year we're walking. Anyone know the depreciation on shoes over 1,800miles? |
walking would be silly, you wouldn't be allowed on the autoroutes as pedestrians so would have to use the minor roads and that would take too long
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| masmith wrote: |
| thefatcontroller wrote: |
| Right I'm convinced, driving is killing my car. Next year we're walking. Anyone know the depreciation on shoes over 1,800miles? |
walking would be silly, you wouldn't be allowed on the autoroutes as pedestrians so would have to use the minor roads and that would take too long |
Yeah but I would avoid the tolls? Potential saving there against driving?
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Does anyone know the europeaa legislation on drink-walking.... Cause drink-walking, while fun, could add some serious mileage to the trip...it would obviously add cost as well...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It's amazing how much time people have to analyse this!
I am driving this season. I haven't costed it (other than the ferry) because the cost doesn't bother me. I am looking forward to the adventure and if it costs more than flying then it is worth it to take and bring back what I like and at the same time stick my two fingers up to Paddy O'Leary, Zorba the Greek and British wedon'tcareways along with the airports and their stupid rules and their security staff feeling me up courtesy of their perverts charter et al! 
Here endeth the rant!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Not sure if I missed the point here but has anybody actually answered the question?.
We (3) travelled to Les Carroz from Wiltshire via Portsmouth/Le Havre last Easter hols. Costs obviously depend on accom but we went self catering.
Ferry: LD Lines, day crossings, with cabin £240.00
Hotels: One night each way for an F1, £90.00
Tolls: Approx £50 each way.
Fuel: Including runs from resort to Cluses for the supermarkets = 4 x fill-ups to around £200 with enough when I got home for a couple of commutes (do not fill up on motorways).
Accommodation: £350.
We have our own ski kit and I do my own servicing.
Had shovel and snow chains as a result of last winter anyway.
Total: £980
Did not include food as we built this into our normal weekly shopping and we take loads with us. Picnic for lunch each day, no meals out.
Obviously passes on top which were £500 for 2 adults and 1 child Grand Massif. We have three trips planned the same way next season which is affordable because a season pass for Grand Massif (early purchase offer) equates to 2 weeks (6 days) and one additional day each skiing. Around £1k for the season.
Do not build servicing, tyres etc into cost because if that was a factor I would have to stop playing golf on Sundays. It is what it is.
Fed up with airports. Delays, spending in departures, parking and timings, especially the bloody transfers to/from resort at 4 oclock in the morning.
I'll get me coat.
Bas
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No, but the driver(s) do.
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I'm struggling to see the financial implication of me getting a bit tired. I used to drive for a living so I guess I'm used to long periods behind the wheel, I don't find it that taxing to drive TBH. I was far more tired the last time we flew, dragging all our stuff around with 2 young ones with us (with a delayed flight, a late coach for transfer and a mega late minibus to take us up the mountain). Anyway with your outstanding financial abilites I'm sure you can give me a figure I need to cost in for my tiredness 
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So I would say that regarding the ferry cost as being 1/2 of the face value of the vouchers you use is more realistic.
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I'm guessing you mean 2X rather than 1/2. I guess you are right but I choose to not see this as a 'cost', because I don't use any of my money for it. You are technically correct but I don't treat Tesco Clubcard vouchers as part of my income, so getting my crossing with them I treat as free as it is not coming out of my pocket.
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Unless the car is very recent, the service interval will not be as high as 15K miles, it will be set at probably 10K or 12K. Some recent ones (model range less than 4 years old) now have higher intervals, so if you have one of these, fair enough.
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My car is an 07 which has 20K service intervals (I did put that up in a couple of earlier posts, apologies if you didn't see it before pouring scorn on my accounting skills )
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If your usage/retention is way off average, then it will be different.
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I would say that the difference between doing 11K miles/PA and 15K over a period of say 7 years (which is about where I reckon I will look to replace it), is going to make a negligible difference to the PX value of it.
Regarding the price of flights (as mentioned previously) we are restricted to school holidays (where the airlines bend you over prior to paying). I would say that our savings are substantial due to the fact that the tunnel don't up their prices in the school holidays as opposed to the airlines.
Yes there are extra costs but to compare my accounting skills with that of Rolls Royce is a bit of a stretch
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You know it makes sense.
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thefatcontroller, Tolls? I thought you Land Rover driving folk simply drove across country
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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In simplistic terms, it costs me 250 quid to drive or 300 quid to fly/hire car. The more people that are travelling will always swing these costs in favour of the car especially if I'm paying. Thereafter the decision which way to go depends on whether you want to sit in car on cruise control for 8 hours or to put up with all the crap that goes with air travel these days. The car wins it for me.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| TotallyBoard wrote: |
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So I would say that regarding the ferry cost as being 1/2 of the face value of the vouchers you use is more realistic.
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I'm guessing you mean 2X rather than 1/2. I guess you are right but I choose to not see this as a 'cost', because I don't use any of my money for it. You are technically correct but I don't treat Tesco Clubcard vouchers as part of my income, so getting my crossing with them I treat as free as it is not coming out of my pocket.
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No, I mean 1/2 the cost. i.e. if you use vouchers with a face value of £100, then treat the ferry fare as £50. But actually what I should have said was that if the ferry fare is £200 and you pay with vouchers, then consider it to be equivalent to £100 cash.
And deciding not to count it at all is just plain cheating.
As I said, at the very best any rational person could think of, it would be 1/4 the ferry fare (so £50 if you fery fare was £200), because you could spend them just like money for 1/4 of the value of the ferry fare you get.
They are just like money in the shop, and should be treated that way. Anything else is deluding yourself.
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Unless the car is very recent, the service interval will not be as high as 15K miles, it will be set at probably 10K or 12K. Some recent ones (model range less than 4 years old) now have higher intervals, so if you have one of these, fair enough.
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My car is an 07 which has 20K service intervals (I did put that up in a couple of earlier posts, apologies if you didn't see it before pouring scorn on my accounting skills )
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OK, I didn't see that.
Although I haven't mentioned your accounting skills anywhere, so I don;t know where I am suppiosed to be deriding them?
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If your usage/retention is way off average, then it will be different.
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I would say that the difference between doing 11K miles/PA and 15K over a period of say 7 years (which is about where I reckon I will look to replace it), is going to make a negligible difference to the PX value of it.
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It is your retention that is way off average. The figures tend to be based on people retaining their car for about 3 years (from whetever age it was when they bought it, not from "new".
As you say, if you are keeping it that long, then age depreciation outweighs mileage (unless you are doing silly miles like me - I do 40K per year).
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Regarding the price of flights (as mentioned previously) we are restricted to school holidays (where the airlines bend you over prior to paying). I would say that our savings are substantial due to the fact that the tunnel don't up their prices in the school holidays as opposed to the airlines.
Yes there are extra costs but to compare my accounting skills with that of Rolls Royce is a bit of a stretch |
I have never attempted to compare your accounting skills with anything.
And for 4 of you, even if you could go outside school holidays, you would still probably save money by driving.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| TotallyBoard wrote: |
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No, but the driver(s) do.
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I'm struggling to see the financial implication of me getting a bit tired. I used to drive for a living so I guess I'm used to long periods behind the wheel, I don't find it that taxing to drive TBH. I was far more tired the last time we flew, dragging all our stuff around with 2 young ones with us (with a delayed flight, a late coach for transfer and a mega late minibus to take us up the mountain). Anyway with your outstanding financial abilites I'm sure you can give me a figure I need to cost in for my tiredness
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The cost of driving 1000 miles to the Alps without an overnight stop - £250-270 (according to you)
The cost of driving 1000 miles to the Alps without an overnight stop, being just a little too sleepy, crashing a car full of family and luggage - Priceless
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Oh wow, this one's still going. Can we get Masque and nixmap to start contributing to make sure it never ends...
If you have to fly, go for it. If you want to drive and it's not too far go for it. End of. I wish. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Frosty the Snowman, oh do please fro. I don't drive when tired, I take regular breaks and it is well within my limits. If it's not within yours that's fine but don't assume that it's not within mine based on your capabilities. I also take exception to you implying I would take risks with my children, I know my limits thanks and don't exceed them! (especially where the safety of my girls is concerned)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Sorry alex got you confused with achilles
I don't see not counting my Clubard tokens as cheating. It isn't part of my income as far as I'm concerned so it's a freebie, I could spend it on something in Tesco but I'd just buy something frivolous with it if I did that, because it's a treat rather than money to live off. I know what you mean but I don't see Clubcard vouchers as money (even though I can buy things with them)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Frosty the Snowman,
I'll have to side with TotallyBoard on this "1000 miles" thing...
I have, and so have my 60+ yr old parents, done Essex-Toulouse in one day on several occasions, either driving it all myself or, if feeling tired, sharing the drive with my wife. We'even done it twice in our old 1972 VW van.. Can't really get much more tiring than that!
And we did it safely, with breaks, and swapping or stopping if tiredness got in the way.
The overnight stop is defo a good idea to arrive all fresh in resort but it's by no means a necessity...
and therefore should maybe be classed as "optional" cost...
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TotallyBoard, Thats what I thought when I was driving at 3am and woke up whizzing along the hard shoulder. ALL of the advice, be it medical or driving, states that driving for such a long period is NOT safe. It is for a very good reason that drivers of vehicle of over 3.5tonnes GVW can only drive for 8 hrs a day (9hrs 3x week) and have to have a minimum of 13 hrs continuous rest between daily driving periods.
Look at every piece of evidence available and it will tell you that driving 1000 miles, even in the best of conditions, without a rest for sleep is indeed reckless. If you can provide me with ANY research to the contrary then I will happily withdraw my implication and formally apologise
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Kruisler, Which part of Essex is that? Newcastle
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Frosty the Snowman, Calais to the Tarentaise is 900km which in old money is approx 562 miles which can be driven in 9 hours with a couple of breaks. Where do you get a 1000 miles from?
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Fogliettaz, Yep, I can do Calais to Aime on one tank of fuel, so don't really need to stop at all
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FAQ
