 Poster: A snowHead
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The ski makers are also paying the price for changing models and graphics every year. If you know that next year your gear will be (or at least look) outdated, why bother?
Having said that, I have to say that hiring is more flexible, but the prices are getting ridiculous. If you're renting skis for 60-70 E, even in a small resort, you're getting skis that cost under 300 Eu (and they''ll be 3 years old). If you want good, new skis, than you must pay for "demo", "platinum" etc, and those prices are over 150 Eu. Also, in many resorts (Ischgl being a good example), good luck to you if you want something that is not "rennski", god forbid anything wider than 75 mm. It' not easy to find a shop that has a decent rental fleet
I had my own (straight) skis in the 90's, then I started hiring, but I've bought my own skis again - I found a good price, and I was fed up with having to search for a decent shop. Financially, buying skis f0r 500 Eu makes more sense than renting at 160 Eu + 12 Eu insurance per week (resale value makes up forthe additional costs of ownership).
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Isn't this just self-serving toss from a manager of a leading discount rental shop saying what a fantastic service he offers? And production of almost everything has shifted to Asia - simple economics.
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stoatsbrother, 's right
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The ski industry is up to all kinds of dodgy practices. Some of their new skis 'sell out' even before december, crazy rrp prices that no one pays and they also dump stock in eastern euro countries. Who knows what really goes on on the inside.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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sugardaddy, I'm paying £62 for my 'superior' quality rental skis for a week in Courmayeur. OK I realise they won't be anything super special but I am assured they are new this season. To be honest I'm pretty sure most intermediate like myself would never be able to tell the difference between top of the range skis and the bargain basement variety...
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cant see the point of buyuing unless your doing a full season or your lucky enough to get away for more than 2/3 weeks a year. generally do a week and a long weekend a year, and always rent my skis for the following reasons.
you can hire the latest models each year, if they're no good you can always swap them, they are always serviced, you damage them you can replace them, you have less responsibility for them - ie just leave em in a rack at the lifts rather than carry em about, if they're stolen you just get some more, you dont have to pay extra carriage, you dont have to carry the extra weight, you dont have to wait at the carousels for ages & you dont look a tw@t in the airport with yer big posh ski bag...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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you damage them you can replace them, you have less responsibility for them - ie just leave em in a rack at the lifts rather than carry em about, if they're stolen you just get some more
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Not sure any of these are true unless you take the shop's insurance - adding even more to the cost.
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I'm a 2-3 week/year skier and can't be @rsed to lug skis across Europe/North America. I've got a good relationship with a rental shop owner in the place we normally go, which helps.
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The csse for buying Skis is strong I always keep our skis 2 years which is circa 5 trips and sell them at that point -
Ive just sold my 2006 Crossfires for £150 after 5 trips - i bought them at the end of the 2006 season from Sport Conrad for £250 - so the five trips cost me£100 plus air carriage at £35 a trip one service and a couple of waxes say £50
so in total £65 per trip
I Know my bindings are OK
I 'm used to them and their characteristics
NO rental queues and on average an extra half a days skiing per trip
My friends all hired in the 3Vs this year - Silver class which is one year old skis for 100 Euros for the week - new skis could be had for 130 Euros. Allright so the Euro is against us at the moment but for convenience and cost and the knowing what youre getting its buying everytime plus its nice to have them!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| andyph wrote: |
Why on earth would I want to buy  |
If you were skiing more than a couple of weeks a year. Then buying becomes more cost effective and you don't have the extra weight of hire bindings. But for 1 or 2 week a year holiday skiers, renting obviously makes sense. I think they're two distinctly different markets that have little influence on each other. Casual holiday skiers are never likely to buy their own skis as they can't even be a*rsed carrying them through the airport. Similarly skiers who spend many weeks in the mountains are very likely to own their own skis.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| andyph wrote: |
| Why on earth would I want to buy |
If you were skiing more than a couple of weeks a year. |
True enough. Bought some for t' wife as she has limited skiing ambitions and also for daughter for race training back home, but you're right, I'd probably shell out if I was going to get a lot of use withing a couple of years.
Do you have just the one pair or do you rent special skis for for special days? (Deep pow etc)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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beequin, And I can fly with Lufthansa at very convenient times from Birmingham to Munich for £93. Thosmsonfly before they pulled out of Coventry airport were quoting £140 plus ski carriage to Salzburg for the same dates.
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uktrailmonster, for me, 3 weeks is still in rent territory. If it were 3 weeks in one go, rather than separately, that might tip the balance.
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You know it makes sense.
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| laundryman wrote: |
| uktrailmonster, for me, 3 weeks is still in rent territory. If it were 3 weeks in one go, rather than separately, that might tip the balance. |
I can't imagine any seasoned skier in Scotland would even contemplate hiring ... try doing 10 or 15 days of your annual quota in one dayers or weekenders and you'd soon change your mind too. After that, the additional attraction of just £20 or so per week for foreign trips makes ownership just 'Brucey Bonus'. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Corky, horses for courses
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Poster: A snowHead
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| andyph wrote: |
| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| andyph wrote: |
| Why on earth would I want to buy |
If you were skiing more than a couple of weeks a year. |
True enough. Bought some for t' wife as she has limited skiing ambitions and also for daughter for race training back home, but you're right, I'd probably shell out if I was going to get a lot of use withing a couple of years.
Do you have just the one pair or do you rent special skis for for special days? (Deep pow etc) |
I've got 2 pairs at the moment, one pair for powder days, one pair for everything else. I usually replace them after a couple of seasons and always buy in end of season sales. I usually ski around 30 days a year and find buying works out a lot cheaper than renting. Plus I find the hassle of transporting skis less than the hassle of arranging rentals.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Seems everyone is just comparing the cost of buying vs. owning. But there's a different of having the right skis vs. a random pair at the hire shop for the same price!
I, for example, was rarely able to find skis short enough for my weight that has the performance characteristic I would like to have.
Instead of focusing on selling a few high end skis for outrageous prices, maybe the manufacturers would do very well to lower the retail price, especially in the mid range skis.
The people who buy skis tend to be more advance skier. They ski enough to justify buying. And as a result of owning the "right" ski for each individual, they benefit from it too.
Many intermediate skiers CAN benefit from owning their own skis in terms of performance. But the price of the average mid-range skis are simply not economical for them. Now why is that so, when there're so many MORE of "them" (casual/intermediate skiers)? It's a much bigger market...
In the mean time, all the ski makers do is crying about the "rental business killing their sales"??? I do find that attitude rather disgusting.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think I am a 'reasonable' intermediate and I can certainly tell the difference with the length of skis and whether the edges are knackered, but when it comes to Rossignol, Salomon, Head, Atomic, I truly cannot tell the difference. I'm sure I had two different widths last season too and still didn't notice a difference...
This is the point for most intermediates other than cost. Any old rental ski providing it's in decent condition will suit us just fine...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| I've got 2 pairs at the moment, one pair for powder days, one pair for everything else. I usually replace them after a couple of seasons and always buy in end of season sales. I usually ski around 30 days a year and find buying works out a lot cheaper than renting. Plus I find the hassle of transporting skis less than the hassle of arranging rentals. |
(Insert faux Yorkshire accent here) 'Ee, luxury. 2 pairs of skis! When I were a lad, we were lucky if we got to lick piste clean wit' tongue. etc etc 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| moffatross wrote: |
| CANV CANVINGTON wrote: |
| if it costs 50 quid to ship your skis to the resort then u will pay 70 to hire a set.. the standard of hire skis in a lot of resorts now is excellent for the average punter.. |
Where does £50 come from ? It's only ever cost me £0, £15 or £20 for a return trip. |
Ski carriage is £57 return on Ryanair and £33 (I think) on Easyjet...
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Just to add
For last week (OK half term so may not be a good example) I have just checked the flights manifest and 9% of people asked for ski carriage, 0.4% requested board hire and the rest wanted ski hire/loan.
As we don't charge for either ski hire/loan or ski carriage this "may" give an idea of the number of UK skiers that own their own skis.
In "this" case over 90% do not own a pair of skis.
Being that in some resorts it is actually cheaper to buy a cheap set of skis/bindings than it is to rent a good quality set you may ask why they don't.
I don't know why.
Oh one interesting point, of the 90%+ who did take ski hire/loan, 37% of these did not take boots. So it seems that many people are just buying boots and smashing up other people's skis.
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For the great majority of skiers, which ever way anyone tries to turn it, owning skis is more expensive overall than renting..
But really, deep down, I think most owners know that, and just like the idea to have their own kit, that they carefully chose, that they look after properly etc...
That's my case anyway. I own my own board/boots but I am on a mountain for the gtand total of one week a year if I am lucky at the moment.. And when I am there I also rent skis for a day or two... So hardly a cheap way of doing things...
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| Kruisler wrote: |
For the great majority of skiers, which ever way anyone tries to turn it, owning skis is more expensive overall than renting..
But really, deep down, I think most owners know that, and just like the idea to have their own kit, that they carefully chose, that they look after properly etc...
That's my case anyway. I own my own board/boots but I am on a mountain for the gtand total of one week a year if I am lucky at the moment.. And when I am there I also rent skis for a day or two... So hardly a cheap way of doing things... |
Sorry Ive got to disagree with you - look at my figures in my other post - its even cheaper if you buy decent secod hand 2 yr old skis!
You cant rely on quality or condition or sensible prices when renting - unless you know the resort and have a relationship with a shop. And lets be honest even a new quality ski at the end of a season is going to be tired and more worryingly what about the condition of the bindings! - Are there any figures for intended life of a binding?
You cant get to the resort and go if you are renting - I usuallly get half a days more skiing than my mates who rent.
The only benefit I can see is if theres a dump in resort while your there you can change to powder skis
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| beequin wrote: |
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you damage them you can replace them, you have less responsibility for them - ie just leave em in a rack at the lifts rather than carry em about, if they're stolen you just get some more
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Not sure any of these are true unless you take the shop's insurance - adding even more to the cost. |
which is about 2 euros a day.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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marksovereign,
Ok, I based my comments on my belief/assumption that:
1) When looking at buying, people mainly look at buying "new", although I admit that in recent years Ebay or sites likes Snowheads made buying 2nd hand a much better/easier experience
2) The great majority of renters will go for middle of the road equipment which can still be had fairly cheap. Of course, as you rightly say, they "cant rely on quality or condition or sensible prices when renting ".. but most one week a year renters, from which I'd imagine most of the renting business comes from, will not care or see the difference. Rental stuff quality is one of the reason I bought my stuff but most people don't really see the issue. Having never owned they don't miss the difference.
3) Ski- carriage cost steadily increases. It ranges from stupid (Ryanair at £57) to free (mainstream airlines) but then flight price is generally higher.. TOs offer a good solution/compromise for one week a year skiers. However, extra keen skiers, the more likely to want to own their skis, tend to do several trips/week-ends which will not be via TOs..then ski-carriage cost quickly adds up over a season.
Hence I stand by my belief that there is no real "financial" argument in favour of owning, versus renting. Hence the renting industry is doing well as Joe Blogski like the ability/easiness to just turn up at the shop get "functional" stuff and gets on with it.
For true snowheads, there are plenty of other very good and very valid arguments for owning your equipment, hence why I do own my snowboad and boots. And when I want to ski, I rent top of the range stuff because I want a minimum of quality and I can tell the difference in the equipment..
Many people on this website are probably in a similar situation...but most people, correction: most active posters, on this website are not your typical run of the mill skier... they tend to be just that little bit more dedicated to snow sports..
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Regarding high ski carriage costs:
People deride Ryanair for the 'stupidly high' price of £57 return per set. People also compare this with the 'free' cost of taking the skis on BA, but when you compare the total cost of flying with one or other carrier Ryanair come out substantially cheaper. So overall takling your skis with you on Ryanair still costs less than NOT taking them on BA. 
A further point, If you have your own boots (and if not you should!), then taking them within the Ryanair 15Kg luggage limit is very tight indeed. Paying for 'skis' lets you take boots in their own bag, as well as skis in their own bag and as a side effect lets you stuff the ski and boot bags with loads more gear besides. So the £57 get you more than just ski carriage, it significantly increases your whole luggage allowance, and STILL saves money compared to other carriers. So simply taking the headline figure and comparing it to the cost of hiring is an oversimplification.
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Axsman,
Just in case you refer to my post, I am not deriding Ryanair's policy, although I still personally think £57 is stupid and in many trips I costed it ended up making them more expensive than e.g. easyjet whereas they were cheaper to start with...
My point was the financial aspect of renting vs owning. And when one uses low-cost carriers, as lots of "multi-trippers" do, £57 a pop makes owning you equipment an expensive option when added to the cost of purchase, and makes renting "financially" attractive to many..
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You know it makes sense.
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I think most of the people who buy skis, they do so without really thinking about the financial differences between renting and owning. If more people thought like that, most of us would hire cars rather than own.
For most people its a simple "I'd like a pair of skis that are mine, I have the cash therefore I'll buy" It's really that simple.
The problem with the industry at the moment as I see it is the week pound and and econmic slow down. The bigger campanys are losing sales but some of that is not due to people not buying, it's due to more players in the market hence less market share for the big boys.
Just my view and I'm sure not everyone agrees
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| kiwi1 wrote: |
I think most of the people who buy skis, they do so without really thinking about the financial differences between renting and owning. If more people thought like that, most of us would hire cars rather than own.
For most people its a simple "I'd like a pair of skis that are mine, I have the cash therefore I'll buy" It's really that simple.
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100% agree
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Poster: A snowHead
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kiwi1, Kruisler, I don't tot up the prices either: I rent because I can't be bothered lugging and maintaining stuff.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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laundryman,
I never totted up the prices either...well, not to make my buy/rent decision anyway...this debate re-appears on a regular basis hence why I have tried to compare the two solutions..and came up with my own conclusion/view that the price could not really be the determining factor either way...
As per what you and Kiwi1 say, I believe it's down to personal preferences rather than a financial rationale..
Personally I don't find lugging stuff around a problem and I love "maintaining", which I think is part of the fun... So I bought... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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James the Last, if you think about it, you should be able to come with some more reasons for frequently returning to a particular resort. Obviously, there are countervailing factors and I wouldn't say it's for everyone.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Axsman wrote: |
| People also compare this with the 'free' cost of taking the skis on BA, but when you compare the total cost of flying with one or other carrier Ryanair come out substantially cheaper. |
That may be your experience, but it's certainly not mine.
The only time that Ryanair or Easyjet work out cheaper than BA, Swiss or Air France for me is if I want to travel at obscure times and without any luggage. I find the whole policy of these airlines that you're supposed to know how much luggage you're going to need to
Let's do some pricing - Stanstead to Grenoble travelling mid-week in March:
- £9.99 fare
- £28.17 taxes
- £28.50 to carry one bag
- £57.00 for skis
£123.66
And this is for travel midday - wrecking two days leave.
I travel with BA to Geneva. I haven't bought a single flight that cost more than £100 and that's travelling at times that don't require me to waste two days leave.
I'm sorry, but £57 is out of all proportion to the costs involved in handling and transporting the luggage
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- £28.50 to carry one bag
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That has to be wrong; it was only 9 pounds when I went last week.
And the ski price is 28.5 each way, so the RY fare with the stated extras would be 66.16
Also, stick your luggage in your ski bag (up to the weight limit) and just take 10 kg in your hand luggage so you won't need to pay the 9 pounds => 57.16.
But, EJ to Geneva is cheaper.
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| beequin wrote: |
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- £28.50 to carry one bag
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That has to be wrong; it was only 9 pounds when I went last week.
And the ski price is 28.5 each way, so the RY fare with the stated extras would be 66.16
Also, stick your luggage in your ski bag (up to the weight limit) and just take 10 kg in your hand luggage so you won't need to pay the 9 pounds => 57.16.
But, EJ to Geneva is cheaper. |
Ive always managed to get 2pairs of skis in the one bag which halves the cost pro rata
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FlyingStantoni,
Checking just now the ryanair price for a flight our on Wednesday 18th and back on the 25th is £95 including all skis carriage etc.
How do you get your BA price as they don't appear to offer a mid week Stansted to Grenoble service? The weekend service is £250 return!
and as beequin, and marksovereign, point out you can get the ryanair price lower by using your ski and boot bags as your only check in, and/or if there are two of you, putting two skis in one bag.
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| James the Last wrote: |
| Means you have to go the same place every year - which unless you own your own apartment seems reasonably strange to me |
Plenty of reasons for often going back to the same place. Knowing where the best bits of the ski domain are, and building up a working relationship with a good instructor being two just two factors which, for me at least, play a major factor in my skiing enjoyment.
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FAQ
) and good prices, including for the bits and bobs you buy. Why on earth would I want to buy 
). And I don't mind what I look like in the airport with my somewhat scuffed and worn ski bag 
