 Poster: A snowHead
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skimottaret, you're right, the second discipline course doesn't require shadowing, I asked.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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beanie1, who did you speak to at BASI, i am going to call them to find out what my options are...
the 5 day 2nd discipline course would be brilliant in a dome if they could run it over two weekends.... would you have a go at it if we could get something in before your departure?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimottaret, it would depend on the cost.
You could just try calling the office and giving a list of questions to them. It might be that the adaptive director doesnt' check her basi emails that often?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| It might be that the adaptive director doesnt' check her basi emails that often? |
Ever 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Let me try to answer a few questions for the forum on the Adaptive Course. First to place the detail level - I am on of the BASI Adaptive Trainers.
1. The Second Discipline requires 2 modules to be passed as the BASI definition is passing a 5 day course.
2. The feedback we get is that it is physically and mentally one of the most challenging courses (if you have no previous experience) but also one of the most fun and rewarding. All the traininers firmly believe that our courses should be fun.
3. The Adaptive world firmly supports specialisation. There is no problem in specialising in VI (Visually Impaired or Cognitive).
4. To date we have given Mono ski/Bi ski as the second discipline as this is something new to most candidates and when the course was initiated we felt that this would be most appropriate to the concept of learning something new that was not based on existing skills.
5. We are reviewing 4 as we are finding that ski schools could benefit from having VI and Cognitive trained instructors as such students are probably the most likely "walkins" you would encounter.
6. The summer courses could be put on on demand if you can arrange sufficient candidates. The whole summer concept is still very much under development from a "sales perspective" so I believe that BASI should be open to requests.
7. I'm pretty sure that a Level 1 summer pass does count as your Second Discipline but to fulfill the 1 week training criteria you would need to pass 2 modules.
8. Shame the Andorra course was cancelled as I was due to be giving it!
Hope this helps.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Tomichi, a very big welcome to  's Great to hear the news from someone in the know.
We have 12 people (including 2 alpine trainers) very interested in the L1 and/or the 2nd discipline course who live in greater london. due to work committments a set of weekend courses would be a much better solution for our group.
If you would be willing to run a bespoke series of courses at Hemel Hempsted this summer I am positive we could get enough people to make it worth your and BASI's while. If travel costs were an issue i am sure we could find a solution to that.
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Welcome to s Tomichi.
As skimottaret says - there's lots of interest here, but precious little annual leave available. Something run over a couple of weekends with one days annual leave would make it feasible for many of us.
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That certainly sounds like a possibility, just checked on Hemel and I see it should be opening in April acording to their web site. I live down near Guildford so at least I am near the right end of the country! The other trainers are up in Scotland and Andorra. I'd need to liaise with a few sources to get the right equipment available but I will speak with Diane in the BASI office to relate the interest and see what we can work into a schedule during the summer. I do see that Hemel are listing that they will be hosting BASI courses, so hopefully that should not be an issue. Costs/charges are handled by BASI and so would be under their standard fee structure as to issue a qualification it would have to be an official BASI course - plus it has to be so for me to deliver BASI material.
Just because of the hands-on nature of the equipment based courses (mono ski, bi ski and what we call 4 track - stand up but with complex equipment issues) we usually have a max of 6 candidates per trainer. This is to ensure there is adequate practice and supervision as the logistics are a bit more complex than providing feedback to alpine candidates. So for 12 we might need to arrange 2 trainers anyway.
The format of the modules is that a single module is presented per weekend and there is a separate exam day on a later weekend. So one exam weekend could cover 2 modules. The idea being that you have the opportunity to think/practice/do some hands on before the exam. The exam has a written paper (mix multiple choice and v short answers, a teaching scenario plus suplementary questions which may be related to the scenario or any other topic we chose within the course content).
One thing that would give you a head start is to get hold of a copy of the PSIA Adaptive Manual as we have not yet had a chance to write our own. You should be able to order via BASI but could also buy from the PSIA web site. I think it should come as part of your course fee - but that way you have less time to read it! Most of it will not make sense if you have not had any experience but it will still help come the course. Andy Lockerbie said he read it cover to cover multiple times but understood very little of it until he attended the course but then it fell in place. Also, I publish a small Disability Booklet which covers the core disabilities that a candidate needs to understand. Unfortunately I have to charge £7.50 to cover costs but every candidate does find it useful.
If you are based in/around London there are bi weekly Adaptive sessions on Saturday mornings (I think) at Bromley where you could take a look and/or get some handson experience.
I hope we can make this work for you all.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Tomichi, excellent, that sounds good. Thanks for posting the info. skimottaret has already been in touch with Diane in the BASI office with a list of names interested ( I think he had at least 6 or 7 people who wanted to do it).
I've read the PSIA manual and there was a lot of info in it, and as you said quite hard to take it all in.
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Tomichi, I have sent you the names of all interested parties that i have details for by email along with the correspondence i have had from BASI.
If you could get a hold of BASI so we can get some ideas on dates that would be great. It would be useful to publish info here as well as by email to the list i sent you.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have spoken with Diane and she is looking to set dates in the next couple of weeks, likely around 11th or 18th July. She would book with Hemel re the slope etc. BASI preference is to do it in a week vs doing it over a number of weekends. Frankly this would work better as you would get more consolidated time and presumably during weekdays the slope would be less crowded so you'd also get more handson. Giving Adaptive courses at weekends on an indoor slope is a bit of a 'mare with equipment, safety and just turnaround time. Plus with a week in situ we can cover the evening lectures/off slope part somewhat better than is possible on a weekend course.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Tomichi wrote: |
| BASI preference is to do it in a week vs doing it over a number of weekends. |
That's extremely disappointing to hear Tomichi.
There really does appear to be a complete gap in understanding here between the BASI office and the needs of those members that have jobs with a finite amount of annual leave.
Not your fault, I realise, but extremely pants member service given our explicit request to run a course at our convenience, not BASI's.
I'd love to do this, but it's just not possible to do if it requires me to use just under a quarter of my annual leave.
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Word is that the course will be offered at Hemel 11- 15 July. Course booking will be through BASI and should be on their site within a few weeks. For anyone interested I would suggest contactine Diane at BASI
I'm going for it
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You know it makes sense.
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Blows me out I'm afraid.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hi all,
I was the "one" booked on to the Andorra 10 day Level 2 adaptive course and was VERY disappointed when it was cancelled.
I have a profoundly disabled son and it took me over three months to arrange care for him while I would be away.
Having spoken on several occassions with BASI and DSUK I feel they both have tried to keep the course running - currently trying to run it in Cairngorm. Unfortunately due to lack of interest this course is looking to go the same way as Andorra. I do feel more could be done to try and co-ordinate interested instructors and regret only now discovering this thread.
So, I am now about to sign on to the Level 2 Alpine in Zermatt because this was the last chance for a lowly Level 1 to do the 10 day adaptive course. I will see what I can do over the summer to get some adaptive qualifications but I am severely restricted by my son's condition. A course held during the week would actually be better for me. I can't understand why a course can't be organised for the week-end if 12 people are ready to sign on though. Last summer my husband attended a week-end course covering bi-ski, mono-ski and three track as a assistant to a sitskier training to become an adaptive instructor (so week-end courses can exist). Unfortunately the exam was subsequently cancelled, don't know why.
I am based in Manchester, work part-time at Chill Factor-e and my husband and I are both volunteers with the local DSUK group. We have been privileged to see the work done with the disabled by the DSUK at Chill Factor-e and my husband has also been away with the Back-Up Trust (Are,Sweden and Winter Park,USA) and recommends it highly!
I know that the DSUK instructor at Chill Factor-e has worked flat out all winter which bodes well for shadowing possibilities.
Nice to 'meet' you all.
Cheers,
Mrs Missing-Snowman.
P.S.
If anyone is on a course at Chill Factor-e and needs a place to stay let us know, we have room for you to couch surf. Anything to help fellow Snowheads 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Missing-Snowman, welcome to snowHeads. Hope you get your adaptive course arrangements to fall into place.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Missing-Snowman, welcome to Snowheads, I share your frustration that there isnt a mechanism to coordinate interest in the more nichier BASI courses. Perhaps the Snowheads and DSUK link up this will help to improve on that at least for Adaptive courses.
FlyingStantoni, thats a shame 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I know skimottaret.
Thanks for the efforts though. Very much appreciated.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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At the moment it may look as though there isn't a course to suit but don't give up on Adaptive Courses. Keep lobbying BASI and DSUK, the more they understand our needs the more they can do. As the parent of a disabled kid - please don't give up trying to get qualified. I'm certainly going to be speaking to anyone and everyone to try and help the system to co-ordinate all the variables better. Just talking on this forum will make a difference. For example, 'Tomichi' is reading our comments, he's taking it all in and feeding it back. Hang in there guys
Cheers, Mrs Missing-Snowman.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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here's the dillemma we all face re weekend courses.
The full "qualification" has 6 modules mono ski, bi ski, 3 track, 4 track, Visual Impairment, Cognitive.
In theory we can do 2 modules in a weekend but in practical terms mono and bi probably should be a single weekend per module as a result of the quantity of material to cover and to provide adequate hands on time.
However, within this the bigger issues is getting over the diability knowledge required. This is very difficult in a series of weekend courses as the way we do this on the full 2 week course is by constant repetition and round robin questions both during breaks in the day and in the evening lectures. In weekend courses we only have the Saturday evening realistically to provide off snow input. So we are finding this aspect to be something of a challenge all round to give adequate coverage.
So for weekend courses we end up with a min of 3 weekends of courses plus at least 3 weekends of "exam time" for the assessments. This is quite a commitment for students and the trainers alike to fit in an also to have our own weekend time during the summer.
Last summer the weekend courses on offer were not well attended and most were cancelled, so this summer BASI is trying a different tack. It's probably a case of not being able to please all the people all of the time but we are trying!
So there is an element of self help here that you can try. For those who cannot make a weekday commitment (and I do fully understand the problems fitting around the day job for those not in the ski industry 12 months per year) try using this forum to arrange dates when a minimum of 6 (possibly BASI might want  can attend and then request a Trainer from BASI. There is no guarantee one can be made available but given enough notice I'm sure that all of the Trainers are sufficiently motivated to try to help.
For those directly involved with Hemel, there are ongoing discussions with DSUK on how to best support them - not only with training but also with equipment. I have also been in touch with them and will go round there when I can fit in a trip to look at how I can help to support them on an ongoing basis.
Hope this helps (and doesn't sound like a cop out!).
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Oh - note also (according to my calendar) that 11-15 July is Sat to Weds. As far as I can see (but we/I would need to check) there is no reason why some people could not just do Sat/Sun and so cover the 1 or 2 modules that would be covered in that time. I'm sure that Hemel will want to put on training for all modules (based on the brief exchange I had with PG) and so if (say) two courses are arranged to cover part w/e and w/d you can still cover quite a bit of material without using leave.
Note that event with 11th to 15th we will still need a separate "exam weekend" later.
Cheers
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err in the longer post it should have read.......(BASI might want eight).......not sure where the smiley came from 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Tomichi, Thanks for all the information, I think the frustration from members is more a lack of communication. If BASI had said that the weekenders last summer had been poorly attended/cancelled i could understand their reluctance but the reason given was travel costs for the trainer which didnt stack up in my mind and just sounded like we were being fobbed off.
Good idea on the first weekend module for those who cant get time off.
Any idea on when the exam weeked will be?
With the 5 day course plus exam weekend does this count as an L1 course or just a second discipline?
Which modules will we be covering in the 5 days? I am very interested in doing the VI if that might be an option
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Thanks for the information Tomichi - it is appreciated.
If you could check about the possibility of doing something on 11th / 12th then it would be appreciated.
| skimottaret wrote: |
| I think the frustration from members is more a lack of communication. |
...and that what Tomichi's suggested as a self-help thing is what, certainly I perceive, we were trying to do.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Good to hear so much progress has been made whilst I was away! I'll be booking on.
Whilst I've been out with Interski a scho0ol for blind children was also out. One of our instructor training sessions was given by the Adaptive instructor working with them, it was extremely intersting and gave me a new perspective on teaching sighted people as well. VFery much looking forward to teh course.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The course is now on the BASI site 11 -15 July £395 and a £20 discount available if you pay in full at booking. Sadly no SCGB discount available on this course.
The office told me that as the course is 5 days without the need for an additional exam day is required. However i was told that we must complete 12 hours per module shadowing, others have said that the shadowing is only needed for those without other BASI qualifications...
Not sure who is correct on this but I am sure Tomichi, will fill us in at some point.
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I've also booked on, and I think one other is too. So we need 3 more for the course to run. Get booking people!! 
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You know it makes sense.
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Shadowing/Experience is required in order to be able to get the full qualification in the module(s) passed it is not dependent on other BASI qualifications. I hope everyone recognises that any of the qualifications that they have gained in whatever discipline required some degree of shadowing to better understand what had been learned and how to apply it. I would argue that where out duty of care is potentially even greater in the adaptive world this is even more necessary as no course can fully prepare you for that responsibility if someone has no prior disability experience in each classification.
In terms of grouping I believe we are moving to group modules as Mono/VI, Bi/Cognitive, 3 & 4 Track but I don't think that this has been finally confirmed and so I don't know at this point which modules are planned for Hemel.
Cheers.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Tomichi, where can we buy the disabilities booklet you mentioned earlier?
If you have some influence over which modules are being planned for the 2nd discipline course at Hemel i would vote for VI to be added.
The shadowing is of course an essential part of the training but may be difficult to get 12 hours per module in a reasonable timescale. If we do 4 or 5 modules during our 5 day course that will be a tall order to achieve the hours in the UK...
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Poster: A snowHead
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Tomichi,
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i would vote for VI to be added
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I second that.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I third it. I'm interested in VI and cognitive/behavioural difficulties, but I'd guess that both of those wouldn't feature in the same introductory level course?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, have you booked on the course yet?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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beanie1, just about to.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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A bit off topic but Frank Gardner is one of the few journalists who I have unlimited respect for, so it was great to see that his shooting and subsequent paralysis hasn't stopped him from skiing.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rob@rar, absolutely, plus he has one of the most beautiful speaking voices on the BBC. He introduced a programme on Radio 4 called 'Battling Back' this morning, about ski rehab for injured servicemen - well worth hearing on Listen Again if you missed it.
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Maybe the camera man could do with a few lessons though!
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FlyingStantoni, yeah, that was funny.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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This is on BBC news now.
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Anyone who wants a copy of the Disability Notes then I'm afraid they are £7.50 (it's expensive to produce low volume booklets!). It is a small pocket sized set of notes covering the core disabilities you are likely to meet in skiing and which form the basis of the BASI course. Email me at dworthington@tomichi.co.uk if you want a copy.
As I understand the current plans VI and Cognitive would be in separate courses, though the sitauation is fluid/changeable! There is logic behind this as very often Cognitive students can also have mobility issues and may well be skiing in a biski. So we have (currently) linked those two together.
Yeah the shadowing is of concern, hower there are active DSUK groups at Bromley, Aldershot and Milton Keynes in the south and I'm in discussion with Pete G about gettinh Hemel set up. So we can facilitate getting access to groups.
Re the camera man - I was doing a bit in Colorado a couple of years back for a TV Programme - Home Makeover Extreme Edition. Basically thay take a selected familly away for a week and in that time they faltten their existing house and build a new one. You might guess that a) that takes a lot of people b) houses are build differently over there! Anyway, we were doing the on hill bit and on this particular day I was supporting the camera man by carrying all his spare gear and cameras - those things are heavy! - and expensive. He was wanting to do some action shots where he was skiing backwards with the family (5 children 4 of whom were Autistic) and was looking a bit "iffy" on his skis. So I offered to do it for him as he had just explained the new special camera he had bought for that trip and how expensive it was. He of course refused "no I'm ok thanks" - 50 yards later - splat!
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FAQ
