 Poster: A snowHead
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| little tiger wrote: |
| rob@rar, remember this process is starting when the skier is at maximum edge angle.... because the ILE provides the mechanism for decreasing edge angle (gait machanics)... so look to that point in video |
That's a good point to bring up. The timing of when ILE is started is important. Watch the video again , and see when Nyberg starts his ILE. It's before the turn has come to an end. That's because in extending onto the little toe edge of the uphill ski a bit more turn will happen before the skis finally roll to flat. Take a look:
http://www.youcanski.com/video/nyberg_fr1.wmv
It's a good thing to keep in mind when trying these on your own,,, get it going early
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| FastMan wrote: |
| skimottaret wrote: |
FastMan, thanks for clearing up which side of the hip should lead.
what happens though if the skier is waist breaking and the old inner hip has collapsed. does ILE force the hip forward or do you end up with too much counter with the new outer ski lagging? |
Yes, focusing on the forward driving of the new inside hip should go a long ways toward eliminating the collapsing of the new inside hip/half. If the problem persists, I'd suggest some time working on the Schlopy drill. It's a great complimentary drill. |
I've never tried the Schlopy drill but will give it a go. It looks a good drill but i think it is more of a NA exercise as i havent seen it done over here...
One exercise which I hated but in the end proved useful was to put your poles around your waist, one in front parallel to you shoulders and the other parallel to the first pole but resting in your lower back. Use the straps to lock the poles together to form a "cage" around your hips.
When skiing with a partner this cage really shows up counter or banking and you can receive immediate feedback during turns....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimottaret, You can also manipulate your hips (very useful for intermediate skiers who rotate).
I've just got round to reading this thread - been too busy with the PSB to get onto BZK lately. I think that some of the confusion comes from the fact that this had been done over here for many years. It may be new and revolutionary in the States, but it's not here. I've now had a chance to watch the videos and (apart from being better) I don't see anything happening that I don't see every day of the summer and Mondial with the club racers and junior wannabees.
I had a phone conversation with Little Tiger this morning that left me thinking I've misunderstood it, but watching the videos I don't think I have. The extension of the leg on the new turning ski starts a little early and the ski rolls onto it's inside (big toe) edge. This is all together with the relaxation of the old inside leg and the projection of the body (whether by accident or design) into the new turn. It's surely all about mimimising the dead phase of the transition?
Fastman "Basically the difference is, according to commonly understood definitions over here: COUNTER is a position in which the skis and body face/point in different directions,,, and COUNTER ROTATION is a means of manually turning the skis via an aggressive body movement." If you mean physically forcing the skis round the corner, then I would call that ROTATION. Counter rotation is what we did in the old style stem christie when we started by turning the body up the hill (counter rotation) and then rotated quickly into the turn (rotation) in order to turn those stupid old long wooden skis when we had stupid little leather ankle boots! 
To put it simply: rotation = the body turning further than the skis; square to the skis = the body stays lined up with the skis.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
It's surely all about mimimising the dead phase of the transition
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that seems to sum it up for me as well .. but also helps by projecting yourself forward to initiate the turn quicker, getting onto the new edge earlier at the start of the turn.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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easiski, I concur:
ROTATION is a means of turning the skis via a strong upper body twist in the direction of the new turn, the momentum of which twists the skis in the direction of that new turn too.
COUNTER ROTATION is an equal and opposite strategy means of turning the skis. The upper body twists one way, while the skis twist the other.
These are the common understandings for the turns over here, and they're seen being employed pervasively,,, not out of desire,,, but out of lack of other skills and options.
As far as the history of the arc to arc ILE transition, I can't personally pinpoint it's origin. I do, however, believe that it's popularity has justifiably grown with the recent introduction of the shape ski, as arc to arc skiing is now more available as an option to the recreational skier and racer alike. So in that respect, it's a rather recent phenomenon.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
I've never tried the Schlopy drill but will give it a go. It looks a good drill but i think it is more of a NA exercise as i havent seen it done over here...
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Wasn't there some talk of the "teacup" drill here a bit ago, that was similar the the "Schlopy"? Perhaps just a nomenclature difference?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I did a few teapots/cups last week. Outside hand on hip helps me focus on good angulation, inside hand pointing in direction of travel helps keep upper body stable. Easy when done on a gentle blue with good snow, not so good on icy reds 
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| FastMan wrote: |
| .....That's a good point to bring up. The timing of when ILE is started is important. Watch the video again , and see when Nyberg starts his ILE. It's before the turn has come to an end. That's because in extending onto the little toe edge of the uphill ski a bit more turn will happen before the skis finally roll to flat. Take a look: http://www.youcanski.com/video/nyberg_fr1.wmv .......get it going early |
I get the relaxation of the inside ski & projecting the hips/body forward & across the skis etc but I just can't grasp this whole ILE thing. Can someone tell the me frame numbers on the Nyberg vid when it's happening. Ta
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It's happening all over , at 8-9 seconds, 14-15 seconds, again at 18, again at 24.
Look for pressure on the old inside leg before the old outside leg gets shorter. Edit: The foot pressure is like you'd do on a stair stepper machine, so it has to start when the outside leg is longest, just like little tiger mentions above.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| comprex wrote: |
| It's happening all over , at 8-9 seconds, 14-15 seconds, again at 18, again at 24. Look for pressure on the old inside leg before the old outside leg gets shorter. |
Thanks, I think I can now see something around the 8-9 seconds mark. I'll try it next time I'm doing turns like that to see if I feel anything different from what I do now.
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^ Meant to say 22, not 24.
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You know it makes sense.
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rob@rar, have spent hours trying to get you screen saves.... the system here keeps insisting they are videos and does not allow them to be pasted into this thread....
funnily enough it shows the pictures as what they are.... Fastman has placed them in his gallery after I emailed them to him
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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comprex, great job on picking out the frames where ILE begins.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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little tiger and FastMan, thanks. Whichever one of you is using a Mac an easy way of capturing an image on your screen is to use the "Grab" application (you can find this in the 'Utilities' folder in 'Applications'). Using "Grab" you can select either your whole screen or just a portion of it which is then saved as a TIFF image, which can easily be converted to a JPG.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rob@rar, it is me.... i was using open apple,ctrl,shift 3 or 4..... but i needed to use the export option in preview to convert it to jpg because the thing here does not recognise pict or pdf
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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little tiger, that captures the whole screen I think. "Grab" is a much more useful way of selecting which bit of the screen you want. It saves images as TIFF (which I think the snowMedia website recognises) but it's easy to convert TIFF files to JPG using "Preview".
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rob@rar, 4 gives you a trigger and you pick what you want
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rob@rar, see above for result
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I see more change in counter than opening of the inside hip.
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comprex, he drives inside hip forward more later.... I was grabbing the Inside Leg Extension for those that could not see it....
BTW - is not counter and hip rotation directly related?? 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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little tiger, just checking my eyesight on the first two frames, thanks for the hard work.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Nope. You've lost me. Again. It's really not that complicated? Why can Easiski explain in 2 sentences what everyone else has taken a whole thread to (try) and do?
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David Murdoch,
'cos that is what she does..straight to the point. Still, if you make it more complicated and baffle people, then they might think they need more lessons.....
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You know it makes sense.
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JT,  have a fine Sunday!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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FastMan, little tiger, thanks, I'll try that, but I'm going to need more room than a fridge to practise it in! Tignes in 11 days 
BTW, as usual, great thread FastMan.
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Poster: A snowHead
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David Murdoch,
| Quote: |
Why can Easiski explain in 2 sentences what everyone else has taken a whole thread to (try) and do?
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Because she's wonderful and clear-headed - and, most importantly, doesn't get off on the sound/look of her own prose. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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slikedges, did you notice that you can easily use it instead of skating to get forward motion?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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David Murdoch, who in the blazes was looking for an explanation?
What in all holy names am I going to do with an explanation when I get to the hill?
I need a RECIPE.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
| Nope. You've lost me. Again. It's really not that complicated? Why can Easiski explain in 2 sentences what everyone else has taken a whole thread to (try) and do? |
Yeah, David, that's what happens in these threads. People read the descriptions, and different areas of confusion emerge from different individuals. Then you try to address each of their questions, to help each poster clear their fuzziness, and the thread tends to get quite long. I've actually always looked at this as a good thing, as the questions/answers can help the light to go on for readers in the wings who might not be able to articulate their confusion, or feel awkward doing so. The people asking the questions play a big role in fostering clarity for others.
And yep, Easiski is an excellent cut-to-the-chase on snow pro, and Internet writer.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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comprex, yep, difference to my mind is in a good platform, otherwise new outside ski scrapes out/back/up and I fall onto new inside leg = A frame!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
I think that some of the confusion comes from the fact that this had been done over here for many years. It may be new and revolutionary in the States, but it's not here.
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It isn't new over the pond (well not to those who are good skiers utilising modern ski characteristics) - but probably is a new concept for many recreational skiers both this and that side of the pond (you only have to look at the one piece heel pushers).
Just an observation on the teapot drills - I find that there is a danger that this can develop *too much* counter especially when used in a longer radius turn, where I find it more desirable to be squarer to the skis. Too much counter can inhibit getting progressively more edge angle/angulation, and many people who fall into this are the classic "park and ride" skiers, with their hips "open" and back.
Looking forward to OLR and the other transitions written down now!
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| Quote: |
Just an observation on the teapot drills - I find that there is a danger that this can develop *too much* counter especially when used in a longer radius turn, where I find it more desirable to be squarer to the skis. Too much counter can inhibit getting progressively more edge angle/angulation, and many people who fall into this are the classic "park and ride" skiers, with their hips "open" and back.
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veeeight, Good observation and i agree as i fall into that camp.
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I haven't been on the snow since reading any of this (or anything in BZK, come to that) but have a feeling that, if I try to follow the instructions in here on ILE, I might risk getting myself into an A-frame. Any advice for avoiding that pitfall? Sorry if it's a silly question.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| veeeight wrote: |
| Just an observation on the teapot drills - I find that there is a danger that this can develop *too much* counter especially when used in a longer radius turn, where I find it more desirable to be squarer to the skis. Too much counter can inhibit getting progressively more edge angle/angulation, and many people who fall into this are the classic "park and ride" skiers, with their hips "open" and back. |
If the inside arm is used to point in the direction you are travelling will this help keeping upper body square in longer radius turns (as well as more countered in short radius)?
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rob@rar,
I noticed at MK that some people were too open, to my mind, in the turn, and I couldn't decide whether it was the snow playing tricks as it does when you are skiing indoor flower, or by design. Open shoulders and hips would lead to a bad turn, I'd say. Of course, you can do it, but its leaves too much work/weight to do on the inside.
How open is open..? or square is square.?
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FAQ
