 Poster: A snowHead
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I don't think this has been explained properly. My understanding is that of all these organisations, BASI is the only one that is currently profitable. Financially speaking, the other organisations will take a tranche of the course fees, and should be better off than before. The idea on membership fees was to stop people having to pay lots of different fees to different organisations. Unfortunately as they haven't gone the whole hog on modernisation and not all the organisations have joined in, I expect some of these benefits will be lost.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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roga, The SSE ASSI takes longer, however student time with a tutor is less. ie you do a CI ( 2days) then get signed off by your coach. Then you do a two day training followed by a 1 day assessment ( this has no input from tutors). So it seems that the ASSI with SSE is 4 days with a tutor. The SSS ASSI ( now level 1) you have 5 days with a tutor (generally the tutors are ISTD or BASI trainers). You then do the shadowing bit after.
The SSE ASSI probably leads to instructors who have gain more experience than the SSS ASSI. BASI see the level 1 as Basic training ( they have a whole bunch of other levels) whereas SSE it was the flag ship qualification ( not including the coach). I think is a culture thing.
There a quite a few "conversions" happening at the moment for ASSIs. The is 1 tomorrow at Castleford and Hemel have 2 planned that are full! Lots of people are deciding to just join BASI as it seems more progressive. I wouldn't pay twice ( 2 organisations), Just join 1 and pay once.
Thing to consider is, why would you pay an organisation (SSE) who has managed to run the coaching scheme so poorly, and miss represent its members to the point that the scheme collapses! I would question if they will have a scheme in the next few months.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, It would be nice to see one body in the UK, although for Canada having one body for Instructors and one for Race Coaches works very very well indeed, as I alluded to before, very often the two objectives are quite different for much of the time.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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veeeight, yes, I think the race coaches side could happily sit in either teaching or competition bodies, although for the UK (with a smaller racing scene that Canada) I think maybe more potential coaches will come through the instructor route rather than the competition side?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| elbrus wrote: |
| roga, The SSE ASSI takes longer, however student time with a tutor is less. ie you do a CI ( 2days) then get signed off by your coach. Then you do a two day training followed by a 1 day assessment ( this has no input from tutors). So it seems that the ASSI with SSE is 4 days with a tutor. The SSS ASSI ( now level 1) you have 5 days with a tutor (generally the tutors are ISTD or BASI trainers). You then do the shadowing bit after. |
On paper I agree and perhaps it depends on where you do the ASSI but I don't know of anyone at Gloucester who has got it with so little training to be honest but they are pretty rigorous there in my experience.
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| The SSE ASSI probably leads to instructors who have gain more experience than the SSS ASSI. BASI see the level 1 as Basic training ( they have a whole bunch of other levels) whereas SSE it was the flag ship qualification ( not including the coach). I think is a culture thing. |
I agree with you there.
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There a quite a few "conversions" happening at the moment for ASSIs. The is 1 tomorrow at Castleford and Hemel have 2 planned that are full! Lots of people are deciding to just join BASI as it seems more progressive. I wouldn't pay twice ( 2 organisations), Just join 1 and pay once.
Thing to consider is, why would you pay an organisation (SSE) who has managed to run the coaching scheme so poorly, and miss represent its members to the point that the scheme collapses! I would question if they will have a scheme in the next few months. |
I agree that given the choice I'd rather go the BASI route but at the moment that's not an option locally for me. If the SSE scheme does collapse though I guess it'll become *the* option though!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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veeeight, i heard they are licensing part or all of the Canadian content. I thought you would be delighted 
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BASI's statement that gave the impression that the Level 1 had been dumbed down, is now my belief a marketing ploy in order to attract the CI's away from SSE. The L1 course as regards to pass grade is being assessed exactly at the same level as SSS ASSI. There is no reason why a good CI should not have every chance of passing after the 5 day course.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimottaret, Now now, that's not what I said 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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veeeight, One change seems to be moving from a 2 day snow park course at CSCF Entry Level to a requirement that you do the 5 day Freestyle Performance Module for BASI Level 2 Coach.
As an amateur I don't think that I can justify the expense of trying to get the L2 coach qualification.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rjs, 
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veeeight, just teasing you a little
but some interesting news in the BASI newsletter they confirm that the coaches course will "use some of the content of the CSCF and the finished product will be likely a mixture of the CSCF and our own current APM. This has two major benefits:
1. the CSCF has agreed to a joint qualification being awarded for students passing these courses. This will enable them to work in North America as CSCF coaches and BASI can continue to improve the professionalism and promote creating a living as a Snowsport coach
2. Basi can run with an existing course that has the backing of a very successful organisation. without reinventing the wheel we can adopt a newly updated course from one of the fastest growing ski nations saving us time and money in development"
Seems very sensible to me and BASI sounds in this and other articles to be looking for best practice worldwide. This would address some of your points about BASI being stuck teaching movement based systems as opposed to skills based for instance.
Another subject that got mention was that "from interski conference some of the things we could use came from teaching children to ski which we have not focused much on in the past, and some different and up to date ways which we could present our information."
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You know it makes sense.
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skimottaret, The same points were true of the old APC courses, they were recognised by CSCF.
Not every coach wants to earn a living at it, or has the opportunity to do so. There isn't the demand within the UK for more than a couple of training sessions per week.
There are also things missing from the new BASI courses that are in the CSCF versions that I think are useful such as the requirement to attend a speed camp. The camp organizers get enough trainee helpers to make it happen and the clubs get speed training for the kids.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rjs, I am sure you are right, i was just passing on the information, mainly for V8's benefit....
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Poster: A snowHead
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Interestingly there seems to be some confusion as to the foundation of "instructing" and "coaching" emerging. Most coaches around the globe will be "amateur". That is to say they will work with a club on a part time basis. How many full time teams (employing full time professional coaches) are there compared to "coaches" working as amateurs in clubs? Doesn't take a degree to work that one out.
Coaching has some fundamental differences to Instructing. Instructors work in the tourist industry, some as professionals and some part time. Coaches however work with clubs on a long term basis in the development of grass roots sport participation,often for NO pay! Coaching serves the needs of our local communities. The qualifications coaches hold will be professional in the sense of the quality of the training, but amateur in the sense that it is not what they do full time. Coaching skiing in many respects is like athletics in the UK, its biggest proportion of participants (and coaches) are amateurs.
IVSI (international federation of snowsport instructors) is the world body that represents coaches and instructors working in clubs. It has more members world wide than the professionals association ISIA. Therefore, I think we can conclude that amateur coaches play a vital role in snowsport. Without them the industry at grass roots level would not produce skiers that support the "pros"!
The worlds top ski racers have not developed their elite levels through hiring a "professional" ski teacher from the local ski school. Their first development coaches probaly deliver milk monday to Friday and coaches the club at the weekend!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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And on elbrus' point, one coach who does a bit at our slope is clearly very exercised about the current moves on the organisation of coaching/instruction, and expects it (in the long term) to be the death of competitive snowsport in our country. Possibly an extreme position, but I have no experience to comment either way.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hmmmm
Seriously, maybe I'm lucky. I've never had a bad instructor or ski guide.
Enjoyment/learning for me depends on how much effort I put into listening/watching and **actively** trying to put it into practice.
One time ( back when I was a cocky l'il sod ) I remember getting very cheesed off at spending an hour just side-slipping back and forth down a gentle slope with a guide in Val d'Isere.
I could already ski most everything on-piste, and was venturing into off-piste, and - frankly - I thought the guide was taking the mick....
.. wrong ! Turned out to be the best exercise around. Took me a few days to recoginise how useful it was... ...good side-slip control gives you a "get-out-of-jail-free" card whenever yer ego exceeds yer ability.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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elbrus, Things have become a little more complicated in the UK with the rise in the number of ski academies based in the alps. They have coaches who are working full time.
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FAQ
