 Poster: A snowHead
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| little tiger wrote: |
| slikedges, I like watching the aussie on the ball.... |
and this remains one of the funniest videos on the internet 
http://youcanski.com/video/bear_4balls.wmv
By the way, I can see that exercise's application to skiing - I once did something very similar off the finish jump at Val Gardena!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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easiski, I agree, one legged skiing is really good (but in the "manual"  ) it looks a bit poncy but is really effective. Is there much difference in doing the drill with one ski off or is just lifting a ski as effective?
As another "race technique" to throw into the mix GrahamN mentioned concentrating on pressure control earlier and later in the turn. One of my instructors was a slalom skiier and was big on obtaining early load up of the front of the ski and shifting the pressure point rearwards as you exit the turn. I think (as i dont know what i am talking about on this subject) that this is a valuable technique when on slick surfaces to avoid break away by using less pressure and more length of the edges on icy surfaces.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimottaret, (I hope the pros correct me if I get the nuances wrong here) that's part of it, but probably not the main effect. AIUI, the principal reason for that shift is to keep the ski working to drive out of the turn faster - a sort of toned down version of the jet turn. It is of course vitally important to recentre once the turn is complete. As a matter of interest, this balance shift was first mentioned to me in an off-piste lesson rather than as a race technique - but as that was from a French mountain man with a beautifully fluid style (as always), he'd almost certainly started off as a racer as a kid .
The main technique for stopping the ski breaking away is to allow the legs to soften a bit and flex as you feel the pressure build up - so avoiding hitting that critical pressure where the ski edge can no longer hold. This of course feels entirely the wrong thing to do when you're fighting to get around a tight corner - every reaction your body is screaming out to push harder not soften - but the way to avoid that need is to get more of your turning done before you hit the fall line - i.e. the "early pressure" thing - so there's much less to do as you come out of it. Again at that point your reactions are screaming at you NOT to launch yourself down the hill (and potentially right into that hard pole), so it's a big mental training thing. Unfortunately it's still not an automatic reaction with me - I get it reasonably right when I concentrate on it, but there are too many times when those thought processes don't quite kick in.
As I hope this shows, all these things that come out of the analysis work together for the synthesised whole, and they all play a necessary part. It's getting the right balance of pressure, edge and balance changes at the right time that makes the fluid, efficient (and fast) skier.
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I'm an ignoramus but I still can't get my head round inside/outside - I know it works for most peeps but I just have a mental block on the phrase and much prefer uphill/downhill prefixed with old/new as applicable 
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brian
brian
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eng_ch, bizarre. I'm the exact opposite. Inside/outside stays the same for the whole turn, uphill/downhill changes half way through !
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brian, my brain works the same as yours!
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| GrahamN wrote: |
| It's getting the right balance of pressure, edge and balance changes at the right time that makes the fluid, efficient (and fast) skier. |
In all contexts, not just gates.
brian, I seem to recall having a similar discussion with eng_ch about inside/outside or uphill/downhill. I'm also very firmly in the inside/outside camp; anything else and I just confuse myself.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| In all contexts, not just gates. |
Absolutely!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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brian, rob@rar, I know, it's weird isn't it? But then, if I've understood it right, ILE involves extending the old inside leg which then becomes the new outside leg as you pedal - so I find it easier to call it the uphill leg, which to me describes it more accurately at the time of initiating the manoeuvre, which becomes the new downhill leg. I have (had? hope I'm overcoming it) a similar problem with the word flex as I somehow always imagine it stretching - so I prefer "bend" even though it may not be strictly accurate. Strange for a wordsmith, no?
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brian
brian
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eng_ch, yes, I suppose if you're describing turn transition then it's inside/outside that changes over.
To me (in everyday language) flex means bend anyway. It's a bit of a skiing specific semantic to pretend otherwise, no ?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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brian, when you tell someone to bend they tend to bend over at the waist not the ankle and knee. "flex" or sink seems to work better...
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skimottaret, All skiing on one leg is good, but it should be practised ideally on traverse, first on the downhill ski and when that is comfortable on the uphill ski, which is much harder. At the same time you can do the turns only on the outside leg, changing just before the turn when traversing on the downhill ski and just after when traversing on the uphill ski. This second one requires you to roll from uphill to downhill (inside) edge which is very good. Later, you can try to turn on the inside edge of the inside ski which is much harder, and then to ski entirely on one ski, with varying radii of turns. Once you can do that you can try 'inclination, angulation' which all the clubs we see here are doing at higher levels. I really like this one. Most of these are not as hard as they sound. Being able to ski on either edge of either ski is an important skill, but also, as you do these exercises your position on the skis and your balance will improve without you having to think about it or try.
It's difficult to say about non-standard exercises - I just tend to invent them on the spot depending on what needs fixing. Try skiing backwards on your uphill ski while hopping only the tails of the ski ..... I did this with my hotshot kids 'cos it was the hardest thing I could think of at the time - it really was hard, and I'm glad to say I did manage it but they didn't. 
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You know it makes sense.
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| easiski wrote: |
| ... and then to ski entirely on one ski, with varying radii of turns. Once you can do that you can try 'inclination, angulation' |
That's the killer! I have only just got the hang of skiing on one leg when incling (but only on green runs, and only on my weaker leg for some reason), but not angulating. Way too difficult! I found it's much easier on my slalom skis (waist of 65mm) than it is on my fat skis (90mm waist).
There's a free Podcast on Warren Smith's website which talks about one-legged skiing IIRC.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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easiski, i can ski one footed ok on my strong leg and vary turn shape so interested in "inclination/angulation" can you explain further... not sure i can picture it correctly....
| Quote: |
Try skiing backwards on your uphill ski while hopping only the tails of the ski ..... I did this with my hotshot kids 'cos it was the hardest thing I could think of at the time
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that does sound hard  i am hoping you mean with both skis on.. will give that a go sometime soon (when not too many are watching)
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Poster: A snowHead
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| easiski, i can ski one footed ok on my strong leg and vary turn shape so interested in "inclination/angulation" can you explain further... not sure i can picture it correctly.... |
There's a very good video explaining that exact point on the Warren Smith website. I'll try to find the link.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| easiski wrote: |
Later, you can try to turn on the inside edge of the inside ski which is much harder, and then to ski entirely on one ski, with varying radii of turns...., but also, as you do these exercises your position on the skis and your balance will improve without you having to think about it or try.
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skimottaret, that was a really magic exercise for me. Getting the inside ski to carve on it's outer (i.e. lateral if we're being anatomical about it) edge - i.e. the inside edge of the turn, IYSWIM - is impossible if your balance is the slightest bit too far back - it seemed way more sensitive to balance than carving on the outer ski. If your balance goes back at all it turns into a skidded turn. It's also way easier on snow than on Dendix. I'm told I'm nowhere near being out of the woods yet, but doing that exercise made a world of difference. I'm now just about able to ski a dead simple course on one ski (with a prayer and a following wind ), nothing anyone would recognise as a proper course but it's a start.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 11-09-07 15:28; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| GrahamN wrote: |
| I'm now just about able to ski a dead simple course on one ski (with a prayer and a following wind ), nothing anyone would recognise as a proper course but it's a start. |
I'm impressed!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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easiski, I get it now after seeing rob@rar, video link. I struggle to get good angulation and tend to bank so this will be a good one for me to try.
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rob@rar, you may wish to put a reserve on that comment - I'm only talking about little more than a half mat offset on slope 2! Still it's another small rung on the ladder.
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| GrahamN wrote: |
| rob@rar, you may wish to put a reserve on that comment - I'm only talking about little more than a half mat offset on slope 2! Still it's another small rung on the ladder. |
I'm impressed even with that. The only time I can manage this trick is on very gentle slopes with almost no control over speed or trajectory. I am at the mercy of the physics of the slope!
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Watching Warren reminds me just how far I have to go with my one-legged skiing.
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brian
brian
Guest
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Actually I suspect taking the other ski off might help a wee bit ? I can link turns on my right ski but I'm fairly hopeless on my left.
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| brian wrote: |
| Actually I suspect taking the other ski off might help a wee bit ? |
you recon? that is interesting i have only tried having the ski off once and it seemed harder but may have just been different.
| Quote: |
| I can link turns on my right ski but I'm fairly hopeless on my left. |
Snap
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| brian wrote: |
| Actually I suspect taking the other ski off might help a wee bit ? I can link turns on my right ski but I'm fairly hopeless on my left. |
At a guess (I've only done it wearing two skis) I'd agree. Less weight to have to balance on the foot in the air, although the change might take a bit of adjustment.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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One-Legged skiing is great for showing up any postural issues.
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brian
brian
Guest
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| you recon? |
Well exactly, and they're heavy bugs !
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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little tiger, Martin Bell, I think the one that's most impressive is the jump from a bounce onto the ball on the mattress. I do wonder though how free it was to roll on what should be quite an indentable mattress.
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Poster: A snowHead
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skimottaret, You really should be OK on both legs first... it's really important, andthe traversing on the uphill ski is critical to being able to ski properly on one ski. Incidentally I find it much easier to do it with both skis on rather than one off, but that might just be that I don't have the opportunity to take one off normally. the clubs on the glacier do a lot with only one ski on, they make the little kids go down a whole run and back up the T bar on only one ski!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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easiski, quite right and yet another thing to work on....
i thought the Warren smith video showed the skill progression really well.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimottaret, yeah - nice.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| i thought the Warren smith video showed the skill progression really well. |
I agree, and the next step would be one-footed carving. In-line skates or Snowblades are great aids towards this end.
It seems that skiing on one ski has always been a core part of junior race training. On my first camp with the British Junior Team (Hintertux, 1978) the coach (Peter Lorenz) had us finish each day with two non-stop, short-turns one-ski runs (one on each leg) from the top of the Gefrorene Wand down to the Tuxerfernerhaus. Got the legs burning...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Martin Bell, one foot carving sounds REALLY hard. I have seen a few race clubs training with one footed skiing (with both skis on) and when skiing on the inside edge would extend the outside ski up and above the hips with a stiff leg. looked really difficult but got them on the edges and angulating.
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OK at the risk of being slightly contentious (a rarity for me, I know) - there is a whiff of running before walking going on here. Whilst the one legged skiing drills are extremely good, jumping to these before really getting balanced well on two skis can lead to tears.
It is entirely possible to learn to ski on one ski badly. I've seen many skiers practice this, and manage to ski on one ski with terrible fore aft balance. Because they saw other people (racers) doing it so they thought it must be good for them.
Drills should be prescribed to meet individual needs. Not a case of doing lots of them in a scattergun approach in the hope of them making you a better skier.
Which is why the "try doing this one, it worked for me" approach passed on from friend to friend (or indeed forum writer to reader) is so wrong. It does not meet your individual needs, does not address your area of development, and can hold your progress back.
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veeeight, ah but some of the readers are so incredibly skilled at self diagnosis they don't need any outside instruction and so can self prescribe exercises
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little tiger, Not sure that sarcasm helps this thread along much...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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little tiger, i understand you have a disability but for me discussing and reading about techniques and/or drills is a good way to learn and think about things to work on, relying on endless lessons isn't for me...
veeeight, so in september we should all shut up and go have a lesson?
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skimottaret, but you are not one who professes to be the worlds best at self diagnosis and never needing outside help... you have already stated in this thread that you have had instruction...
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FAQ
