 Poster: A snowHead
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20 years ago in the 3 Vallee I was doing gentle short parallel turns down a moderately steep slope that led to a flat path. A young French teenage girl going straight down and fast skied into the back of me and took me out.
She was shaken and upset, luckily both unharmed, although we ended up off the piste and near rocks. It could have been a lot worse.
I helped her recover, but then her parents came and started to blame me saying that I was turning from side to side on the piste (WTF?). I told them in no uncertain terms, in French, who was the uphill skier, and that they should get off. I was not happy.
I'm not sure if behaviour has got worse. What is different is that pistes are a LOT more crowded.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Thomasski, cheers, on a quick perusal I can't see anything conclusive to support the theory things are getting more dangerous.
Am I missing something?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Gendarmes out on the piste at Super Chatel today. Just seemed to be pottering about and looking around.
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I think it’s getting worse yes, some places are worse than others though
Factors I think in recent times are:-
Social media-posting videos and screenshots showing how fast they’ve been from apps etc.
Helmet cams-trying to get footage of themselves skiing down a piste so not paying attention to others whilst doing so, do they not realise how boring the footage is? Clearly not!
Ski tracking apps-attempts at getting higher speeds than their mates, seems to be a competition for some.
Lessons, none at all or doing a couple of mornings of ski school then sacking it off to ski with mates.
Kit-if you look at the skis people hire, a large percentage of them are race type carving skis, stiff and built for speed, they seem to be in demand rather than all mountain skis despite the all mountain ski being more suitable for the vast majority of conditions the vast majority of the time.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Layne wrote: |
@Thomasski, cheers, on a quick perusal I can't see anything conclusive to support the theory things are getting more dangerous.
Am I missing something? |
Managed to open the pdfs eventually, it actually looks like it was trending downwards towards 2020! One can only assume there is more recent data somewhere in SNOSM that supports the article? Maybe the journalist made an RFI and got to see a bit more detail?
Interesting (and not surprising) that SNOSM found 70% of all high-speed accidents are male biased...also that most high speed collisions happen on busy blue pistes.
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| Layne wrote: |
| @Mick_Br, have you considered reporting it to the police/authorities? |
It crossed my mind but it occurred to me that the best I could offer would be very sketchy and I'm uncertain what they'd be able to do with the information.
Hopefully the offending individual was suitably shaken by the experience and duly chastised by his mates.
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
Ski tracking apps-attempts at getting higher speeds than their mates, seems to be a competition for some.
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The Paradiski Yuge app used to include max and average speeds attained - this data is no longer made available within the app, my guess is to avoid promoting stupid behaviour.
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| Quote: |
Social media-posting videos and screenshots showing how fast they’ve been from apps etc.
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Maybe I'm just in a very different bubble, but pretty much all the social media the algorithm throws at me is off-piste focused. Most of the commercials for anything ski related seems to be either off piste (mostly deep powder) or "lifestyle" adverts of some good looking people sitting around in a mountain restaurant.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Moorzee10 wrote: |
| In all seriousness, the person above who suggested proper ski patrol is bang on the money. |
This is a job for the Police, as you can see by the Caribineri and Gendarm comments, not ski patrol. In europe if you asked ski patrol to get involved in this sort of work you would get a 100% NO. We have a legan responsibility for safety, not BEHAVIOUR MODIFICATION / CONTROL.
As for the legal ramifications, ski resorts in Europe are not privatly controled property as are some NA resorts, we are not allowed to TELL people what to do, only advise and sign. A closed run is not a no go (in a legal defenition), we are just saying its a bad idea - No snow, lift closed etc. This does become different if you are a ski instructor as you are a profesional and therfore need to obey safety instructions..... if you are teaching.
If we are called to an accident caused by a colission and one or both parties are being unresonable we call the police.
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@Mick_Br, maybe so yes
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
| Quote: |
Social media-posting videos and screenshots showing how fast they’ve been from apps etc.
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Maybe I'm just in a very different bubble, but pretty much all the social media the algorithm throws at me is off-piste focused. Most of the commercials for anything ski related seems to be either off piste (mostly deep powder) or "lifestyle" adverts of some good looking people sitting around in a mountain restaurant. |
I get that sort of thing too but I was thinking more of what you see posted on You Tube as if they think people want to watch them skiing down a piste. So say you do a search on a resort you’ve not been to before you will find lots of quite long videos of people skiing down a piste, they must think it’s interesting to post it on there. 
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Wed 24-01-24 18:32; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Sfellows,
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What is different is that pistes are a LOT more crowded.
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I'm not saying you are wrong but I find this difficult to line this up with the fact that skier numbers have declined with a 20 year perspective (I'm pretty sure?).
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| jedster wrote: |
@Sfellows,
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What is different is that pistes are a LOT more crowded.
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I'm not saying you are wrong but I find this difficult to line this up with the fact that skier numbers have declined with a 20 year perspective (I'm pretty sure?). |
The difference maybe that 20 years ago the lifts were smaller and slower. Today you can get a lot of skiers more quickly up the mountain, so whilst the number of skiers may be fewer, they are doing more skiing. Just a thought!
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You know it makes sense.
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| Sfellows wrote: |
| jedster wrote: |
@Sfellows,
| Quote: |
What is different is that pistes are a LOT more crowded.
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I'm not saying you are wrong but I find this difficult to line this up with the fact that skier numbers have declined with a 20 year perspective (I'm pretty sure?). |
The difference maybe that 20 years ago the lifts were smaller and slower. Today you can get a lot of skiers more quickly up the mountain, so whilst the number of skiers may be fewer, they are doing more skiing. Just a thought! |
Plausible!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Idris wrote: |
| Moorzee10 wrote: |
| In all seriousness, the person above who suggested proper ski patrol is bang on the money. |
This is a job for the Police, as you can see by the Caribineri and Gendarm comments, not ski patrol. In europe if you asked ski patrol to get involved in this sort of work you would get a 100% NO. We have a legan responsibility for safety, not BEHAVIOUR MODIFICATION / CONTROL.
As for the legal ramifications, ski resorts in Europe are not privatly controled property as are some NA resorts, we are not allowed to TELL people what to do, only advise and sign. A closed run is not a no go (in a legal defenition), we are just saying its a bad idea - No snow, lift closed etc. This does become different if you are a ski instructor as you are a profesional and therfore need to obey safety instructions..... if you are teaching.
If we are called to an accident caused by a colission and one or both parties are being unresonable we call the police. |
Idris I very much respect your knowledge. But in this regard I do not agree with you. Lift passes are used to access the ski lifts, and already come with terms and conditions. As ski patrol you may not feel able to TELL anyone how to behave, but the lift company can withdraw access if its terms and conditions are breached. And it could ask the ski patrol to exercise that on it's behalf. Or employ others to do so. And as a matter of fact the vast majority of ski areas in NA are actually on public land so that is not the issue at all.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| zikomo wrote: |
| Idris wrote: |
| Moorzee10 wrote: |
| In all seriousness, the person above who suggested proper ski patrol is bang on the money. |
This is a job for the Police, as you can see by the Caribineri and Gendarm comments, not ski patrol. In europe if you asked ski patrol to get involved in this sort of work you would get a 100% NO. We have a legan responsibility for safety, not BEHAVIOUR MODIFICATION / CONTROL.
As for the legal ramifications, ski resorts in Europe are not privatly controled property as are some NA resorts, we are not allowed to TELL people what to do, only advise and sign. A closed run is not a no go (in a legal defenition), we are just saying its a bad idea - No snow, lift closed etc. This does become different if you are a ski instructor as you are a profesional and therfore need to obey safety instructions..... if you are teaching.
If we are called to an accident caused by a colission and one or both parties are being unresonable we call the police. |
Idris I very much respect your knowledge. But in this regard I do not agree with you. Lift passes are used to access the ski lifts, and already come with terms and conditions. As ski patrol you may not feel able to TELL anyone how to behave, but the lift company can withdraw access if its terms and conditions are breached. And it could ask the ski patrol to exercise that on it's behalf. Or employ others to do so. And as a matter of fact the vast majority of ski areas in NA are actually on public land so that is not the issue at all. |
Doing so changes the nature of our work. It comes up every year. The answer will always be 100% NO in any european country.
As I said before, we have other services (police) for that job. In Courmayeur and occasionaly in Megeve, they are there to make thir presence know... and it Courmayeur it's effective
Also our teams are nowhere near big enough to do that sort of roll. We have a team of 17, 10 on any normal day. Jackson hole has a patrol of 200!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Idris, Are you sure about Courmayeur? I have helped with accidents in Champoluc and Bormio and the piste patrol are police, from the Guardia di Finanza.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think that social media has a lot to do with it....people are filming more and looking for the next thing that will get them "likes".
Alcohol has a lot to do with it...I see more accidents and more people being carted off the mountain in the afternoon rather than the morning. Too many people have a few drinks at lunchtime and then ski with an enhanced sense of ability but with reduced common sense and skill.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I think that social media has a lot to do with it....people are filming more and looking for the next thing that will get them "likes".
Alcohol has a lot to do with it...I see more accidents and more people being carted off the mountain in the afternoon rather than the morning. Too many people have a few drinks at lunchtime and then ski with an enhanced sense of ability but with reduced common sense and skill.
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@Hurdy, some of the afternoon accidents are not only drinking a lot at lunchtime but due to fitness as well, they are tired after lunch and lose concentration easily, ‘jelly legs’ etc
Some people do not a lot all year then go skiing and they are knackered
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
@Hurdy, some of the afternoon accidents are not only drinking a lot at lunchtime but due to fitness as well, they are tired after lunch and lose concentration easily, ‘jelly legs’ etc
Some people do not a lot all year then go skiing and they are knackered |
Yeah, people underestimate what it takes to digest a giant bowl of spatzle after exerting yourself all morning, then seal the deal with a few beers. If you're unfit it's going to hit you hard!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
@Hurdy, some of the afternoon accidents are not only drinking a lot at lunchtime but due to fitness as well, they are tired after lunch and lose concentration easily, ‘jelly legs’ etc
Some people do not a lot all year then go skiing and they are knackered |
I usually stop skiing mid afternoon, balancing that I’m an early starter. I’ve heard it said that more accidents happen towards the end of the afternoon, which in my case could come from fatigue or just that all the aggressive idiots are cramming in runs before lifts close.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 25-01-24 22:30; edited 1 time in total
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| Idris wrote: |
Doing so changes the nature of our work. It comes up every year. The answer will always be 100% NO in any european country.
As I said before, we have other services (police) for that job. In Courmayeur and occasionaly in Megeve, they are there to make thir presence know... and it Courmayeur it's effective
Also our teams are nowhere near big enough to do that sort of roll. We have a team of 17, 10 on any normal day. Jackson hole has a patrol of 200! |
That would be all well and good if there were actually local police/gendarmes/carabinieri etc on the slopes. I have probably seen "real" police a dozen times patrolling stations, and only at half-term times, in Italy and France. That's not to say that they aren't there, of course, but that their presence isn't hugely noticeable. And I'm not really looking for them either.
One thing that makes North American style ski patrols more effective is that they are pretty much all expert skiers. So they can chase you down if need be...
Most of the incidents I have witnessed in Europe have been fairly benign and true accidents. I don't see as much of the hooliganism or "mad bombers" you see in the U.S.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Snow&skifan wrote: |
| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
@Hurdy, some of the afternoon accidents are not only drinking a lot at lunchtime but due to fitness as well, they are tired after lunch and lose concentration easily, ‘jelly legs’ etc
Some people do not a lot all year then go skiing and they are knackered |
I usually stop skiing mid afternoon, balancing that I being an early starter. I’ve heard it said that more accidents happen towards the end of the afternoon, which in my case could come from fatigue or just that all the aggressive idiots are cramming in runs before lifts close. |
I agree...fatigue is a big issue. Driving when tired causes more accidents (up to 20% of all accidents according to Brake ) so I assume it would be similar across the piste....
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FAQ
