 Poster: A snowHead
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Lots of people talk about 'ability' or 'technique' (as if they're things to be measured on a single scale in any case) as being important when it comes to group composition. I'd suggest that for most purposes they're a lot less relevant than a tendency to (or tolerance for) faff, or a preference for a certain number of coffee stops (or lunch of a certain duration), or even a desire to stop by the side of the piste mid-run vs chatting mostly on the way up.
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Firstly I'm not sure technique always quite matches up with ability. I have a friend who works as an instructor. Technically very good, looks effortless on piste. Get her off something perfectly groomed and a little steep and she goes to pieces.
I agree that ability alone is not always a good indicator of who I'd actually want to ski with. If you are out somewhere for the season, it's not a huge loss spending half a day with someone mismatched. If they are a good laugh it and conditions aren't great it can make for a better day, even with the different skill levels.
However, there are definitely cases where I think it's more important to have a decent idea of the other people's ability. I've heard some horror stories about people claiming to be advanced skiers with lots of off piste experience, and then being a complete danger to the group. But even at a less serious level, it somebody is clearly slower than the rest and you are stood around waiting for them at every chair it's not a particularly enjoyable experience for anyone.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| gorilla wrote: |
^^^^^^
What's driving that? Drop outs from the race programme? |
Loose screws 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| jedster wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Last proper chalet hol I took I'd already weeded out at dinner people to not bother skiing with on grounds they'd brought their own snowblades etc. Then in the boot room in the morning I pulled out my Redeemers to which I suspect the reaction was more "all the gear no idea" than "must be almost a pro" adulation. Fortunately it was a powder day and they did deliver as they did in slush later in the week. |
I got some jip for mine when I turned up at the bubble in Les Contamines with mine. A nice thing about Les C is that the lifties are generally smiley and give you a friendly word. When I was fitting them in to the snowboard slot the lifty grinned at my mates and said "where's he from? Chamonix?". They found it very amusing. In my defence SpyderJon had done me a very nice deal on old stock  |
I always get teased by someone for my battered old Preachers on days when there is clearly no off-piste to be had, as zero precipitation for weeks and loads of freeze-thaw. The Whitedots are showy, fat skis and look ridiculous on piste. And stickers on them from younger days make them look ridiculous on a bald, chubby, middle-aged man.
Once the mid-morning slush has arrived, I'm usually having too much fun, drifting around like I'm on a skid pan, to notice. 
The ski ranking one is funny. I've beer-league raced (on and off piste), done seasons where i didnt work, but skiied/trained, have a lot of confidence and a good CARV score (as that's now a thing, apparently). I have skiied a bunch, and got to ski a lot when powder off-piste was common, not a once a season thing. I'm a lucky man. But I still feel I learn something significant almost every season - seriously. Even if its just a little trick that transforms an aspect of the sport. That's the joy of skiing, no? You can't be an expert if you're still learning. These days, I take a lot of pleasure in a well-tackled blue run, as much as I do anything tougher.
And my wife is better than me, which is constantly humbling. I've always had to think about my skiing - for her, it's unconscious. As it is for anyone at the upper echelons of any rankings, I suspect.
My greatest problem now, at middle age, isn't confidence, kit or things I've learned and retained. It's fitness.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Harry Flashman wrote: |
| ... ... You can't be an expert if you're still learning. These days, I take a lot of pleasure in a well-tackled blue run, as much as I do anything tougher. .. |
Nah. Look it up.
Expert: a person with a high level of knowledge or skill relating to a particular subject or activity.
I'd actually say that it's a specific characteristic of people with expertise that they are continually learning, never satisfied.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| phil_w wrote: |
| Harry Flashman wrote: |
| ... ... You can't be an expert if you're still learning. These days, I take a lot of pleasure in a well-tackled blue run, as much as I do anything tougher. .. |
Nah. Look it up.
Expert: a person with a high level of knowledge or skill relating to a particular subject or activity.
I'd actually say that it's a specific characteristic of people with expertise that they are continually learning, never satisfied. |
Yes, good point; if you only included folk who had nothing more to learn the 'expert' category would be completely empty.
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Good point.
As to Preachers being good in piste - you really need sidewall depth snow/softness for them to be fun. They are skiable on ice/total hardback, but not particularly enjoyable. If piste skiing on a cold day/morning, I usually take out an Atomic S9, which is very fun on hard piste!
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I think the difference between intermediate and advanced is obvious.
There are categories that (rightly) define ability.
Beginner: someone that hasn’t progressed from snowplough. Still finds surface lifts a real challenge
Early intermediate: just learned parallel, still not totally comfy with surface lifts
Intermediate: someone that can stop when they want. Turn left or right when they want. Will ski any slope on the hill, but performance will suffer at times
Advanced: rarely loses a beat, regardless of slope
Expert: self defined. No one really self proclaims as one surely???
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Expert: self defined. No one really self proclaims as one surely???
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I can think of a few
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| MorningGory wrote: |
Don't worry about it! If you don't like the look of a piste, avoid it if you can. Renting skis, you'll get to know what you like.
I've got probably 30wks skiing but would only grade myself as an 'experienced intermediate'.
So I agree with you! I'd rather ski a red with good style and technique than hack down a black. |
I think the term "experienced intermediate" nails it for a vast amount of recreational skiers.
Im good, but Im not that good is perhaps the thing that many should learn. Some people elevate their competence but in a week or a fornight per season you can never be an expert but can get to an decent level.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I would suggest style and elegance are relevant. As well as speed and technical ability Skiing is also a personal expression like dance! You can be technically great but still look a little ragged or you can be graceful and refined.
I’m sure we can all recognise skiers that have an attractive style….and the opposite!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Having been in four weeks of group classes, it seems like:
Beginner - can't ski
Intermediate - can pizza, blue/easy red
Advanced - can parallel, red/black
So I was somewhat stumped when I was in the advanced group with some people having skied nearly 10 yrs. There were definitely a few that were in between but I suppose would have been a pain to make the groups any more granular.
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@puddingdo, That's a bit simplistic. I can parallel, do reds/blacks but the harder reds/blacks I find a bit hard, mainly due to lack of confidence. Hence an experienced intermediate
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You know it makes sense.
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| jedster wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Last proper chalet hol I took I'd already weeded out at dinner people to not bother skiing with on grounds they'd brought their own snowblades etc. Then in the boot room in the morning I pulled out my Redeemers to which I suspect the reaction was more "all the gear no idea" than "must be almost a pro" adulation. Fortunately it was a powder day and they did deliver as they did in slush later in the week. |
I got some jip for mine when I turned up at the bubble in Les Contamines with mine. A nice thing about Les C is that the lifties are generally smiley and give you a friendly word. When I was fitting them in to the snowboard slot the lifty grinned at my mates and said "where's he from? Chamonix?". They found it very amusing. In my defence SpyderJon had done me a very nice deal on old stock |
On Snowblades?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Intermediate - can pizza, blue/easy red
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Why does your favorite food make you an intermediate? Surely a love of tarteflete is more appropriate? Or pork and potatoes
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Poster: A snowHead
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| johnE wrote: |
| Why does your favorite food make you an intermediate? Surely a love of tarteflete is more appropriate? Or pork and potatoes |
Nah that's just wrong...it is:
Beginner - Pizza
Intermediate - Fondue
Advanced - Schnitzel
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Elite - Kaiserschmarrn
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Being able to ski parallel on steep slopes indicates general competence rather than being advanced.
Good mountain guides are advanced; most of us are well short of that (though I have met some snowHeads at about that level).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| AL9000 wrote: |
| Elite - Kaiserschmarrn |
Germknödel shirley.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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In my experience, people who tell you they are "advanced skiers" are probably decent intermediate with a couple of beers in them boasting about how good their Black Crows are...........
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| GreenDay wrote: |
| In my experience, people who tell you they are "advanced skiers" are probably decent intermediate with a couple of beers in them boasting about how good their Black Crows are........... |
Yep you've probably defined about 90% of British "advanced" skiers with this. 
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The only place I have seen this sort of grading, and the only point in doing it, is to find similar standard skiers for a holiday (as at the Ski Club). It was therefore in that spirit that I answered. Of course it isn't reliable but its better than nothing. If someone isn't up to the standard you not only have to spend most of your time waiting, but (much worse) don't get to ski more challenging runs you want to ski.
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The Ski Club Freshtracks have a reasonable defintion so that hopefully people do not end up way out of their depth on their holidays. Reading these may give pause for reflection!
The "grading" they give after a holiday is also useful shorthand and can avoid all that "how high can you wee wee up that wall" that can go on 
On Piste
1/ Early Intermediate (Blue)
Competent skiing all blues in all conditions and easy reds in good conditions About 4 weeks or more of experience but likes to stick mainly to blue pistes. Able to maintain consistent pace and turns on blue pistes. Prefers to ski pistes in good conditions and avoids icy or bumpy terrain.
2/ Intermediate (Red)
Competent skiing all reds in all conditions and easy blacks in good conditions Around 8 weeks of experience and likes to stick mainly to red pistes. Able to confidently parallel ski groomed red pistes with limited stops. Enjoys groomed pistes and prefers to avoid bumps or icy slopes
3/ Advanced Intermediate (Silver)
Competent skiing in control on any red piste and most moderate blacks Several years of experience and enjoys skiing the whole mountain on piste all day with limited stops. Able to vary turns to cope with more challenging terrain. Able to ski icier pistes or easy bumps, though prefers to avoid larger bumps and may need to stop to rest more frequently in trickier conditions.
4/ Advanced (Purple)
Competent skiing blacks and easy bumps whatever the conditions Confident skiing the whole mountain at a good pace all day, can vary turns and control speed to cope with steeper pistes or tricky conditions. Several years experience at a number of ski areas. Skis top to bottom except on the toughest blacks. Can handle a variety of conditions including ice and larger bumps.
5/ Expert (Gold)
Competent skiing the fall line on all blacks and bumps whatever the conditions Enjoys skiing the fall line of the steepest and most challenging terrain, including bumps, regardless of terrain and snow conditions. Considerable experience of many ski areas over many years. Expected to ski more than two weeks each season. Can safely and confidently negotiate any conditions.
Off Piste
1/ Aspirer (Red)
Skis easy off piste terrain in good snow conditions Minimum of Advanced Intermediate level on piste. Willing and able to venture off piste on easy slopes (less steep than a blue). Limited experience, from no off piste to a few days or weeks. Relatively fit with the attitude and aptitude to progress.
2/ Intermediate (Silver)
Competent skiing moderate slopes off piste (blue-red steepness). At least a few weeks off piste experience. Able to link several turns in light powder (to just above boot height) on a uniform base. Can manage easy untracked terrain, but prefers no obstacles and may struggle to link turns in poor light.
3/ Advanced (Purple)
Competent skiing advanced, steeper slopes off piste (red+ steepness) Several years off piste experience and some knowledge of mountaincraft. Used to spending the whole day off piste in varied snow conditions. Skis confidently and enjoys powder. Can ski with consistent speed and turn shape in all but the most challenging conditions. Able to handle a variety of conditions, including lightly crusted and wind affected snow.
4/ Expert (Gold)
Competent skiing all off piste in all snow conditions Confidently and safely skis all skiable off piste with a controlled line, in the widest variety of snow conditions. Experience skiing off piste in many ski resorts over many years, throughout the ski season and in all types of snow. Excellent knowledge of mountaincraft. Skis with fluidity and confidence in almost any conditions. Seeks challenging terrain and snow.
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