 Poster: A snowHead
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| richb67 wrote: |
@kitenski,
more marketing blurb
"6-AXIS MOTION, Gyroscope and accelerometer"
and
"Carv 2 is a self-contained, highly accurate gyroscope and accelerometer. No installation, wires, or inserts.
It uses a process called 'Sensor Fusion' to detect the position and movement of your boots as you ski - allowing the Carv Motion AI system to know the exact movement of your skis.
The Carv app uses this to analyze and coach your technique in real time."
so it looks like they've dropped they pressure sensor stuff and are purely using directional and speed data in 3 dimensions, but someone smarter than me may want to chip-in!
Maybe they figured out that knowing the angles and speeds of each ski can be used to give the same level of feedback as the pressure sensors. Thinking out loud - Obviously an instructor doesn't "know" where your weight is when they tell you to put more on your little/big toe. |
I think they will be able to model and infer anterior, posterior, lateral and medial weight distribution over each foot but there is no way they could produce foot pressure maps as before. That detail is simply below the noise floor of what they are now sensing.
Having said that I think their new product will be able to give meaningful feedback to the skiier. More importantly for Carv it is a cheaper product for them to both manufacture and support. The barrier to entry has been lowered and I would imagine that many more users will get on board.
I’ve just ordered mine.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@NoMapNoCompass, as I said someone smarter than me... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Thew2002 wrote: |
Someone is saying there is an email which may give a 2 year upgrade for £200... This is such a mess of information...
Should i take the £159 option or hope i get an email for £200 for 2 years... |
did you get the £177 figure from filling in your email address on their website or somewhere else?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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From the app and upgrade my membership...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Thew2002 wrote: |
| From the app and upgrade my membership... |
I saw this on the website, "existing users enter email for special offer" etc etc etc, if you haven't already maybe worth a try
https://membership.getcarv.com/magic
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Thew2002, or save your money  which is what I’ll be doing !
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I'm a pretty bad skier so carv helps me, i understand not having it if you're good though
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I've ordered the Carv 2. Just need the hardware, got it for £79 (£20 off), as I'm a Founder Member. I didn't use the old one a lot since the feet pads did gave me foot cramp so hopefully this new one will be better. It was useful when I used it as it improved my turns a bit by telling me that my outside skis turned before the inside one.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@luanb, decent price - does that include an annual pass?
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| kitenski wrote: |
| @luanb, decent price - does that include an annual pass? |
I've got a life time pass as a Founder Member. I've bought it before it went subscriptions, hence the life time pass. Which was really good of them because I've had other companies only giving out 1 year subscription for situation like that.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@luanb, that's very good!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@luanb, I'm in the same position as you, with lifetime pass. I had my inserts fitted when I changed boots a couple of years ago so just wondering whether to get the boots refitted without the insert and move to Carv 2, or stick with 1.
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| narbs wrote: |
| @luanb, I'm in the same position as you, with lifetime pass. I had my inserts fitted when I changed boots a couple of years ago so just wondering whether to get the boots refitted without the insert and move to Carv 2, or stick with 1. |
I'd get the deal now and decide later? Someone said you can use both on the same boots  , if you have 2 phones, as only 1 can be active at a time on the Carv App.
It also shows how less cumbersome it is without the cables.
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You know it makes sense.
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Carv have just told me that all the metrics and feedback categories will be the same with both v1 and v2, including identifying different snow conditions, so I think I'll stick with v1 for now.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I'm in the same position as both @luanb and @narbs, so for me, it's not worth the additional cost of the sensors as i'm not gaining anything.
I'm not interested in the moguls/off piste ranking, so I won't be upgrading.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| swskier wrote: |
I'm in the same position as both @luanb and @narbs, so for me, it's not worth the additional cost of the sensors as i'm not gaining anything.
I'm not interested in the moguls/off piste ranking, so I won't be upgrading. |
True, my main reason to upgrade is the inserts gave me foot cramp after a couple of hours. Also, £79 is way less than than the $270 I've paid in 2019.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@narbs, not sure that is the full story....You'll not get the pressure metrics with v2, looks like they are using software to detect balance vs pressure that the insoles measured.
but I guess the new software is going to remove pressure altogether regardless of the underlying hardware, so in that sense both will be the same, just you'll have no pressure stats any longer....
This all from their own website:
Carv 2 is a self-contained, highly accurate gyroscope and accelerometer. No installation, wires, or inserts.
It uses a process called 'Sensor Fusion' to detect the position and movement of your boots as you ski - allowing the Carv Motion AI system to know the exact movement of your skis.
WHAT HAPPENS TO PRESSURE?
Carv 1 needed pressure metrics to measure your balance while you skied. However, thanks to a breakthrough with our new Motion AI, Carv 2 can now do this more accurately than ever before using motion data.
As a result, we have removed the previous pressure metrics and replaced them with our improved balance metrics (early forward movement, mid-turn balance, and transition weight release).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@luanb, cheers, it does look much neater and less faff.
Decisions, decisions 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@luanb, that's a good article, answers lots of my questions!!
One outstanding question is what happens during a run where you hit multiple terrain? Perhaps nip off the side of the piste for some powder at the top, hit groomed pistes in the middle and some bumps at the bottom?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I asked their chat re the above question:
Carv 2 detects the surface that the majority of your turns where on in the run.
However, the tips will prioritise powder or moguls over groomed if multiple terrains are present, with powder at the top of the hierarchy if all terrains are present.
Additionally, each time you stop skiing you'll get a separate terrain detection, as well as separate ski:IQ and metric scores. So if you ski down the full mountain, but stop 3 times, you will get three different terrains and three different ski:IQ and metric scores
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@swskier, how do you use the Carv yourself as an instructor when free skiing? I don't really fancy the idea of the headphone feedback but quite intrigued to try something then on the lift or over lunch review my scores and look for some high level tips?
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Hopefully i can beat my carv score from last season with version 2, and hopefully it won't need to cheat like i did last year!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@kitenski, that’s mostly how I use it. Choose what I’m going to work on and then look at the metrics on the lift or at a break.
I mostly find the turn by turn feedback too distracting, although I might do it occasionally. And as has been said previously an understanding of what you’re trying to achieve and how is pretty key.
I also find it useful in general skiing when it can show up what you’ve forgotten/let drift while focussing on another particular area.
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Wonder how well the new one works with stiff boots.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@narbs, thanks.
@rjs, that blog link above is a good read, can't imagine boot stiffness makes any difference.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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So in terms of price it's currently £159 for the gubbins and a year of access, then £200/year (for now) to be able to use them going forward, if you don't pay the pass then you've just got a pebble that doesn't do anything until you pay the troll toll again?
I can see how that's pretty good value training, especially for someone who would have a full week of instruction or numerous private lessons each season. However it really puts me off as someone with a passing interest in seeing how it works...and yes, I'm aware that's not necessarily logical for someone considering spending £800 on an avabag that they hopefully never have to use
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| SnoodyMcFlude wrote: |
So in terms of price it's currently £159 for the gubbins and a year of access, then £200/year (for now) to be able to use them going forward, if you don't pay the pass then you've just got a pebble that doesn't do anything until you pay the troll toll again?
I can see how that's pretty good value training, especially for someone who would have a full week of instruction or numerous private lessons each season. However it really puts me off as someone with a passing interest in seeing how it works...and yes, I'm aware that's not necessarily logical for someone considering spending £800 on an avabag that they hopefully never have to use |
There are free “Buddy Passes” that allow people to lend their units for a day. Plus other options like the £99 6 days pass and I think there’s a 2 years option too.
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You know it makes sense.
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| luanb wrote: |
| SnoodyMcFlude wrote: |
So in terms of price it's currently £159 for the gubbins and a year of access, then £200/year (for now) to be able to use them going forward, if you don't pay the pass then you've just got a pebble that doesn't do anything until you pay the troll toll again?
I can see how that's pretty good value training, especially for someone who would have a full week of instruction or numerous private lessons each season. However it really puts me off as someone with a passing interest in seeing how it works...and yes, I'm aware that's not necessarily logical for someone considering spending £800 on an avabag that they hopefully never have to use |
There are free “Buddy Passes” that allow people to lend their units for a day. Plus other options like the £99 6 days pass and I think there’s a 2 years option too. |
The subscription also don’t activate until you recorded your first ski session, so in theory if you time it right you can get almost 2 seasons in.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Ah the buddy pass sounds like a good shout, not seen that. They should possibly make more of that.
£99 for 6 days of use still sounds a bit steep to me, pretty sure I'm not the target market
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Poster: A snowHead
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| luanb wrote: |
There are free “Buddy Passes” that allow people to lend their units for a day. Plus other options like the £99 6 days pass and I think there’s a 2 years option too. |
the buddy pass is interesting, do you have a limited number? presumably they have to set up an account.
I just ordered one and Mrs B has suddenly changed from 'why do you want one of those' to "oh can I use it too?"!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| richb67 wrote: |
| luanb wrote: |
There are free “Buddy Passes” that allow people to lend their units for a day. Plus other options like the £99 6 days pass and I think there’s a 2 years option too. |
the buddy pass is interesting, do you have a limited number? presumably they have to set up an account.
I just ordered one and Mrs B has suddenly changed from 'why do you want one of those' to "oh can I use it too?"! |
Last year they were given out to subscribers in November, 5 per subscriptions. This year its based on the Carv 2 purchase, I think. See the link, scroll to the Sharing the Carv experience section.
buddy pass info
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| SnoodyMcFlude wrote: |
So in terms of price it's currently £159 for the gubbins and a year of access, then £200/year (for now) to be able to use them going forward, if you don't pay the pass then you've just got a pebble that doesn't do anything until you pay the troll toll again?
I can see how that's pretty good value training, especially for someone who would have a full week of instruction or numerous private lessons each season. However it really puts me off as someone with a passing interest in seeing how it works...and yes, I'm aware that's not necessarily logical for someone considering spending £800 on an avabag that they hopefully never have to use |
Difference is you never want to have to use an airbag in anger but you do want to dip in and out of using Carv.
I'd have probably bought one in last year's Black Friday sale if they'd had a Ltd sub for 5 or 6 days at £50. But £99 is more than you spend on e.g. music subs you use everyday etc.
I can see why they need to charge so much as the rump of the potential client base probably only do 1 or 2 weeks pa.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| kitenski wrote: |
| @swskier, how do you use the Carv yourself as an instructor when free skiing? I don't really fancy the idea of the headphone feedback but quite intrigued to try something then on the lift or over lunch review my scores and look for some high level tips? |
Generally just on free ski mode, and only when the conditions warrant it being worthwhile. No headphones, but instead if i'm on a chairlift with others, i'll turn the volume right down, otherwise it just talks out loud for 20 seconds on the lift and that's it.
It's usually just confirming what I think anyway, move forward earlier, and get more centred through the turn, rather than being forward the whole way.
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FAQ
