 Poster: A snowHead
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Not sure if this is a benefit or not but we discovered that snowboards in our house must have bred during lockdown. Slightly in him Sideways' defence some of these have been moved on as children have grown.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@turms2, Just an observation from Europe. I noticed in Japan that there are a lot of younger snowboarders.
@Richard_Sideways, One advantage of snowboarding is that it less stressful on the knees. To me telemarking looks terrible on the knees
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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MY STASH! MY SECRET STASH!... I would say that only barely half of them are my boards - and the green one is effectively retired now...
@johnE, When I was still riding in N.America, I met a lot of riders who had moved to snowboarding after they'd banjo'd their knees skiing. If you're riding properly you knees stay in line with their normal operating range.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Weathercam wrote: |
| @phil_w, have you ever ridden somewhere like La Grave, or do you just heli with fat Americans and Japanese ... |
Chill out. Yes, no.
My point was that as none of us ride the massive antique snowboards, any opinions which you're basing on your experience with those have little relevance.
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| johnE wrote: |
| One advantage of snowboarding is that it less stressful on the knees. |
That's what I tell skiers who've given up due to iffy knees or ligaments. I tell them that they have all the 'snow sliding' skills and experience necessary to easily convert to a snowboard, and thus obtain a few more years on the snow.
Somehow I think it's the stigma of 'going to the other side' that holds them back - more than having to go through the beginner phase again.
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| Quote: |
Somehow I think it's the stigma of 'going to the other side' that holds them back
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I suspect this "stigma" is largely a figment of some boarders' imaginations. Going through the beginner phase and fallling a lot is certainly not an attractive prospect, though it's true that getting up after you've fallen over is much easier on a board (well, provided it's onto the toe edge). But with older, crumblier, bones, big falls are potentially risky. And the flat or flattish bits are such a pain. Though with my cardio-vascular limitations now skating on skis is not as easy an undertaking as it used to be and taking a board off and walking in comfy boots is not too tough!
And when only your front foot is attached to the board the potential for huge torque on the back knee (e.g. in a slight tumble getting off a lift) is significant.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@pam w, Yeah sure, I will forgive an 80 year old skier for not wanting to risk their bones boarding. However, there are plenty of 50-60 something iffy-knee skiers, who with a crash helmet, knee & elbow pads, could continue on a board given generally equal exertion of both legs, and minimal risk of torsion (aside from bad chair dismounts, and drag lift incidents).
As for the flat, that's not a show stopper by any stretch, but I must admit that I haven't returned to resorts where their primary nexus (piste/uplift starts/ends) is a vast plateau.
We'll have to do a survey to see the relative positions of 'back to beginner' vs 'ski->board stigma' in the list of reasons not to convert.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| @turms2, I think he's implying that Snowboarders are ageing hipster types who are trying to stave off the inevitable decline into cardigans, senility and telemark skiing. |
We MUST save snowboarding from hipsters of any age. It's simply too good for them. Cardigans (and tartan slippers) on the other hand... they're welcome to!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I avoided drag lift incidents by clipping my back leg in (Flow bindings). But not always possible on a chairlift.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I avoided drag lift incidents by clipping my back leg in (Flow bindings). But not always possible on a chairlift. |
Both feet in bindings is fine on a drag (not that many folk do it) if you can handle it, and prefer it. However, it's rightfully forbidden on a chair, given high risks of 'dragged under chair', and other accidents impatient to happen.
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@crosbie,
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However, there are plenty of 50-60 something iffy-knee skiers...
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Me!
The whole back to a beginner thing was a bit off putting but it was either that or give up sliding and tbh with a whole bunch of body armour the 3 days of pain wasn't too bad, I mean I could only not sit down for a couple of days or so!
As for ski -> board stigma, most of my skiing was/is trying to keep a very good boarder in sight so there's no real stigma for me.
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You know it makes sense.
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@gixxerniknik, so, would you recommend boarding as having less tendency to strain the knees and reduced risk of exacerbating other leg complaints that mid-life skiers may suffer from?
Given you overcame both 'beginner again' and 'ski2board stigma', we can't really put you down as having been dissuaded from converting by either. However, I guess you'd say the former was the bigger hurdle.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Most of the places I go to in Austria seem to have detachable chairs so the chances of tweaking the trailing knee are really reduced.
Boarding is definitely an option for people with knee problems.
I've sort of grown out of the skier/boarder rivalry thing but the cliche of sitting down in the middle of runs really annoys.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Jagerbull wrote: |
| Most of the places I go to in Austria seem to have detachable chairs so the chances of tweaking the trailing knee are really reduced. |
It's the knee that's bound that has the greatest risk - not the trailing, unbound one. But, sure, the demountable chairs are more friendly. Even so, if, upon unload, there's a pile up in front of you, or a beginner either side wipes out and knocks you over, that bound leg can be twisted by the board when you tumble.
| Jagerbull wrote: |
| I've sort of grown out of the skier/boarder rivalry thing but the cliche of sitting down in the middle of runs really annoys. |
...just over a brow. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@crosbie, I always feel my rear leg is most susceptible to a twist.
And yes, sitting in the middle of a piste. Over a brow. Smoking dope!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hmmmmm. All this talk of not twisting knees has me interested, as I heard my knee pop on Boxing Day. Took a tumble. One leg stayed put, whilst the rest of me fell in the opposite direction.
The being a complete beginner thing is off-putting to me though.
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| Quote: |
It's the knee that's bound that has the greatest risk - not the trailing, unbound one
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Yes,, definitely and I might have got that wrong earlier, being careless. I tumbled off a chairlift with my left (forward) foot in the binding and wrenched it quite badly when the board stuck in the snow. It was a stupid beginner tumble, but I was a bit nervous because the chairlift (one I knew very well) required a fairly decisive turn to left or right and I was dithering. My left knee is the bad one (many, many, years ago bad fall in Cairngorm) and I was afraid for a minute or two that I'd done it major damage. I hadn't. But boarding with two feet in bindings (ie most of the time) knees are definitely less vulnerable than on skis.
I admire good boarders - often watch them from lifts - and would love to be able to emulate them. My younger son is excellent on skis and pretty good on a board - I envy his skill and the way he can choose his weapons to suit the conditions. Any skier who thinks there is some sort of stigma attached to boarding is an idiot. Though sailors are right when they think there's a stigma attached to motor boats...... 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Owlette wrote: |
| The being a complete beginner thing is off-putting to me though. |
Not a complete beginner tho, that's the thing. Understanding the snow, ski lifts, pistes, other piste users, how waxed planks behave, raised edges vs flat, etc.
A skier has a pretty good advantage compared to a complete beginner.
Of course, a skier may sometimes forget they're on a single plank, rather than a pair...
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My two sons, both skiers, took up snowboarding as teenagers. The younger one (much more"up for it" and even at a young age completely indifferent to what anybody else thought) persisted, even on a dry slope, which is a horrible place to learn snowboarding. The older one, much more image conscious, couldn't cope with being a beginner again. The younger is now a far better skier (and not only because he has done several seasons cooking in the Alps) and though he reckons he's not great on a board, that's in comparison with seasonnaires he's ridden with. To my eyes he looks great, though when he's with me he always rides switch, just to practice.
I can't think why anyone who likes being in the mountains and has some time, wouldn't aspire to be competent at both disciplines (and cross country) if they start young enough. I did, and though I never got any good at boarding or XC, I tried. And I understand what they're about.
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What do you reckon? 40 young enough? To be fair, I was 37 when I learned to ski!
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I’m not a Europe regular so could be different for me but I hardly ever see boarders sitting down in the middle of the groomer. Probably because kiwi groomers are usually polished ice and a bit hard to stop on 
I see a lot of skiers standing around in dumb places however, the usual one is skis across a cat track admiring the view or checking the phone.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Owlette wrote: |
| What do you reckon? 40 young enough? To be fair, I was 37 when I learned to ski! |
If you're that young, of course you're far more likely to explore the options.
The problem is the dyed-in-the-wool skiers who find they can no longer ski without it becoming painful (and can't face knee-braces), and for whatever reason, they give up skiing rather than consider snowboarding as a possible lower/no-pain option.
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I started boarding at 24, taught myself to ski at 45. My skiing skills are terrible, just wanted to be able to survive short descents on a splitboard without transitioning.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Owlette wrote: |
| What do you reckon? 40 young enough? To be fair, I was 37 when I learned to ski! |
I'm in the same opinion as pam, why wouldn't you try it to find out
Me, a skier first, committed to a week with my nephew to start learning. He never been to mountains but mountain boarder, with us more or less equal in progression. As Crosbie notes, snow mountain skills of skiing are relevant, certainly in confidence of the environment you'll be in and all that entails. Board skills of course very different.
Certainly 3 days of falling around seem valid, well my experience was such, after which you get a coherence and progression visible and real sense of achievement. You learn such alot about your own balance, it enhances your movement skills substantially I feel. A very good addition to any time spent in the mountains.
Emphasise that a good instructor is valuable. Mine was only Italian ski school group lesson in Cervinia, Danielle and Bruno specifically but superb natural teachers that combined skill with attitude to be really progressive. A superb week it was, absolutely memorable.
I've never taken part in anything for what impression that may give, either there's interest and drive to do it or not in my view.
Definitely worth considering.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Sometimes I wonder if a monoski might be a good intermediate stage for a skier to progress to a snowboard.
After all, a monoski is simply a snowboard, with a very narrow stance (5cm?), and very high binding angles (90deg), but a stance that a skier might find quite familiar, especially if they've dabbled in the 'keep ze skis close together at all times' style.
One could then progress to an inline ski, or Skwal, which is effectively, just a narrow monoski.
And then it's a short step to a racing alpine snowboard, with steep binding angles 70degs.
Before you know it, you're on a twin tip, all-mountain snowboard, with shallow binding angles.
And then you're duck footed doing tricks in the half-pipe. 
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I learnt in my 50s. Hence, probably, my less than spectacular progress......
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You know it makes sense.
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Your baggy clothes can cover up those pounds that need shifting
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I'm not sure if it's already been claimed, but snowboards are much less affected by wind slab and wind-effected snow in general, both of which I encountered today. These shots were taken where the wind hadn't been, but it really doesn't affect a snowboard much at all, where as the [expert] skiers I was with were all working hard and not flying through it.
Poles... Knapton was taking the Mick, but there's a US guy here who is using poles, something I've never seen before. He's not with me, but when I saw him ride, I'd say they ruin his stance. If you think about where you put your arms for snowboarding, and where you'd have to put them to hold poles, well it seems pretty obvious why that doesn't work. I can't see what people are hoping to achieve with those anyway. And no, I won't be providing any advice about that, unless asked.
| pam w wrote: |
| I can't think why anyone who likes being in the mountains and has some time, wouldn't aspire to be competent at both disciplines (and cross country) if they start young enough. ... |
Me either, it makes little sense to me, but obviously everyone's different. Personally I like being a complete beginner; my goal obviously is to do better, but I know that's a necessary step and feel no shame or anything else negative about it. The kids of my snowboarding buddies all ski and board, just like me and their parents.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@phil_w, spark dyno or phantom bindings there?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I dont think I know a single snowboarder (over my 30 years of boarding) who has ever ski'd or wanted to ski.
Most approach snowboarding as an extension to skateboarding, and you certainly don't get skateboarders that want to learn to fruit boot (roller skate) as lets face it , both skiing and fruit booting are just, well you know..... stupid looking 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| phil_w wrote: |
| .....I'm not sure if it's already been claimed, but snowboards are much less affected by wind slab and wind-effected snow in general, both of which I encountered today....... |
| Weathercam wrote: |
| I switched back to skiing as it is just so much more flexible when touring and then I really had to work at it, which I still am as it is so much harder to be able to rip all types of snowpack on skis as opposed to a board.... |
That's why I say boarding is so much easier 
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 23-02-23 10:12; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| johnE wrote: |
@turms2, Just an observation from Europe. I noticed in Japan that there are a lot of younger snowboarders.
@Richard_Sideways, One advantage of snowboarding is that it less stressful on the knees. To me telemarking looks terrible on the knees |
i think in Europe are the less snowboarders in the whole whole.
Except UK, i dont think that in AUT, France or Italy are snowboarding so famous.
US, and definitely S.Korea and Japan has the most snowboarders among the winter fans i think.
I follow in Instagram a snowboarder from Japan, and in his video i noticed that on the slopes are at least 50/50 ski/SNB....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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snowboard & Chairlift could be a pain in the Axxx...however as i said in another topic
always left or right. Not in the middle.
If the lift turns left, sit on the right and vice versa
If leaving the chairlift you have to go (skiing boarding) left, meaning that everybody will also do the same way, then sit on the right and head forward. Not left....Even if the chairlift turns right etc.
I admire some boarders who sit in the middle among skiers etc....big mistake. If there is a double chairlift avoid it. If it is not possible try to go alone. If it is not possible then choose the side that is better for you according what i said above.
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| ukoldschool wrote: |
I dont think I know a single snowboarder (over my 30 years of boarding) who has ever ski'd or wanted to ski.
Most approach snowboarding as an extension to skateboarding, and you certainly don't get skateboarders that want to learn to fruit boot (roller skate) as lets face it , both skiing and fruit booting are just, well you know..... stupid looking |
started at 30...till this age i thougt "whats the point of taking the lift and sliding down?"
Tried skiing for a week. Manage some blues...Then tried snowboard. One day. Next day i was to a shop an i buyed a board + boots etc
5 years later i tried cross country. More as an alternative when the weather is foggy etc.
7 years later i left my country in order to be near the alps. (although the first choice was somewhere in Scotland, to be honest)
since then the last 10 years didnt tried to skiing again....
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Less snowboarding in Europe is indeed a benefit. If you think of lift served off piste / side piste as the whole point of being on the mountain, and consider that skiers in general stick to their natural habitat (on piste), then the average cost of an untracked run per person (boarder) is greatly reduced by the sheer number of on-piste-dwelling double plankers.
| pam w wrote: |
| I learnt in my 50s. Hence, probably, my less than spectacular progress...... |
Not so sure, I started boarding at 46-47, no lessons, and progress was slow but definitely spectacular, in my own head of course
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 23-02-23 9:34; edited 1 time in total
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| crosbie wrote: |
Sometimes I wonder if a monoski might be a good intermediate stage for a skier to progress to a snowboard.
After all, a monoski is simply a snowboard, with a very narrow stance (5cm?), and very high binding angles (90deg), but a stance that a skier might find quite familiar, especially if they've dabbled in the 'keep ze skis close together at all times' style. |
I did monoski a fair bit 10 years before snowboarding (properly - you can't count 3 hours in 1988 on an a fish shaped thing).
This pic in Avoriaz 1989 looks way more dramatic than it was with some judicious cropping ( I built a 3 foot high kicker at the side of Proclou )
Don't think it was my gateway to being a boarder, more something to do on holidays while skiing with my friends, because I got a bit bored skiing with them given the difference in level.
But that, ultimately was what got me into boarding. The next trip we did we agreed that nobody would take ski kit and we'd all learn to board together, so we were all at the same level. That was 25 years ago ...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@OuatteDePhoque, WOO! HOT DAWG!
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@OuatteDePhoque, WOW!
Did you have a mullet to go with the shocking outfit?
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