 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
@mountainaddict, sorry for all your hassle. Just one thing: did you get script for low molecular weight heparin or any blood thinners for flight? There would be significantly increased risk of DVT with long flight with lower leg fracture and immobilisation
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
If you can find one nearby, we found the Hotto Motto fast food places to be decent value and good food. Think we ended up going there most evenings to grab something and it's in my notes for next time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Do you have any form of PHI back here? I had telephone consultations with doc from PH cover and a second from a Sage employee benefits doc, both within four hours of request, both producing the requested document. Not a F2F, but all they are is a line in a letter stating the obvious.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Following on from @peanuthead, was Mrs MA given anti thrombosis shots? In France I had shots to give myself for 7 days. I wasn't flying, but obviously not v mobile with broken pelvis. It was reassuring to have them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
I had a spiral fracture Tib and Fib in Switzerland and was given self administered anti thrombosis injections.
Even so I had a DVT in my leg a couple of weeks later.
Easy to self diagnose and the A&E sorted me out with warfarin which I took for a while.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Self diagnosis in my case:
Extremely painful to touch but in a very specific spot on my calf...just a finger width away had no pain at all.
The Swiss doctor had told.me that might happen and to hurry to A&E if it did.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@mountainaddict, how's it going? Have the issues with the flight been sorted?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hoping all was resolved in terms of return journey and definitely interested in the insurance outcome, as I’ve used MPI for quite a while.
In terms of this specific experience we had a torn ACL in our group up on Asahidake some years back. Freezing temperatures, no visibility (guides needing compass etc). All very worrying and self-rescue the only option. I don’t recall flight issues but it was some years back.
This information is old but pretty accurate: https://hokkaidowilds.org/keeping-safe-while-ski-touring-in-hokkaido. Hoping to be constructive here: We had 2 IFGMA guides with us (including a Hokkaido based Japanese guide) but I know of other groups who do not actually have a qualified mountain guide leading them. A link to the Japanese guides list is in the article. Many speak decent English.
I can find our one’s details if anyone needs it. FWIW I would always recommend a local IFGMA be leading if you are actually off-piste, as opposed to between pistes. I say this as I think a number of guides fly in from elsewhere. I may be wrong but I think language and local knowledge are more important here than some other places.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@chrisJersey, eye opening reading
RESCUE COORDINATION TAKES TIME IN HOKKAIDO
Be prepared to wait at least three hours for a backcountry rescue in Hokkaido, usually more. There’s only one or two dedicated, well-drilled backcountry winter rescue teams in Hokkaido. Coordination takes time before any rescue personnel even arrive at the trailhead. Factors such as heavy snow, bad visibility, and nightfall will all hamper rescue efforts. Backcountry parties must be prepared for an overnight in the hills, even for relatively easy backcountry ski routes. Carry basic survival kit including a fire starter and thermal blanket in your pack.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Have never been to Japan, always wanted to go, but with this knowledge, if I wanted to do backcountry, I will probably just go to France. I'm too long in tooth to risk a twisted ankle being a life threatening event
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@peanuthead, there are different ways for enjoying Japow. I am a relative novice to powder, so joined CatSki in Hanazono. A group of 12 plus 4 instructors/guides. The lead guide (Aus?) another from the UK and two locals (one acted as a photographer too). Fresh tracks all day, close to civilization, most skiing on closed resort pistes, some trees, etc. If somebody would have been hurt pretty sure the cat could come close-by and injured person taken by guides/others.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Well, we have finally made it back to the UK 
I have been waiting until things were a bit more sorted before doing an update.
We ended up spending Mon and Tues nights at the Chitose hotel. The insurers booked the hotel and asked for an accessible room. However, we were actually given an inaccessible room, as far as the bathroom was concerned. We have never had a room anywhere ever that had a 25cm step up into the bathroom. A nightmare of a struggle for Mrs MA but she eventually managed. It's just for one night...we thought at that point.
For a change of scene, and knowing we could get a wheelchair, we spent the day at Chitose Airport on Tuesday, using the free hotel shuttle bus to get there. We initially hoped we might get flights sorted for that day but it wasn't to be. Still, the Fit to Fly Certificate came through by email from the Sapporo hospital where Mrs MA was treated, so we began to think things may be looking up.
The insurers confirmed that they had booked us in for a second night at the hotel. They also said they hadn't been able to book a room including breakfast, so we should just arrange that at the hotel and claim it back from them. We should also ask to move to an accessible room. It being bureaucratic Japan, this, of course, proved to be more difficult than anywhere else in the world. Firstly, it was just not possible to add breakfast to a room only booking(!). The reaction was as though I had asked for a free upgrade to the presidential suite for a week  Secondly, they wanted an extra £140 to swap us to an accessible room - for one night. We declined and stuck with the room with bathroom step for night two. You really couldn't make it up.
We actually enjoyed our day out at the airport on Tues(!). It was just nice to have a change of scene and get out; we found a lovely coffee shop for breakfast; there's a load of shops and restaurants; and accessible toilets too. We visited the Japan Airlines check in and spoke to a lovely member of staff who was so helpful. She checked we were booked onto the flights (still no word from the insurers at this point) and confirmed that Mrs MA would be able to board in the leg brace.
The insurers finally confirmed our flights on Tues night - we'd be flying home at 17.30 on Wed. Sapporo > Tokyo (JAL) > Istanbul (Turkish Airlines) > Manchester (Turkish again). Mrs MA would be upgraded to business class. I wouldn't 
After checking out of the hotel on Wed morning, we spent another day at the airport. The novelty of being there had worn off a bit, so we spent a more relaxing day, with a leisurely lunch, coffee shops etc. We asked about a possible free upgrade for me ('I really need to assist her in-flight' etc) but - given experience re. adding hotel breakfast etc - held out little hope of that. We were right... 
Mrs MA's business class seat went completely flat, so she managed some sleep on the 13.5hr leg to Istanbul. I didn't. I was sat next to an emergency exit and bulkhead for the long flight and it was freezing. While moving about to the toilet etc, I found that the rest of the cabin was lovely and warm...  I ended up wearing a fleece, my ski jacket and wrapped in a blanket for the duration.
Airport staff (particularly JAL) were excellent and support for Mrs MA was generally good, with wheelchairs and lifts on electric carts. The exception was at Istanbul Airport, with too much walking and Mrs MA being required to descend stairs at one point. Turkish Airlines left us until last to board the flight to Manchester. We (and another couple) were put into a truck with a tail lift, like the ones used to put the food onto flights. On arrival at the plane, Mrs MA was trundled out of the other end of the truck, at the same height as the plane door. Trouble was, despite 2.5hrs between flights, everything took an age at Istanbul - and the plane doors were all closed for take off. The lad who was pushing Mrs MA's wheelchair then spent some time knocking loudly on the door, which opened eventually...
25 hours after take off from Sapporo, we landed at Manchester yesterday morning. We were home about 3.5 hours after that.
Mrs MA was offered no blood thinning medication in Japan, nor was the issue of DVT mentioned by the insurer's nurse when she telephoned us. I have just caught up on the Snowheads' posts on the topic.
Since getting home, we have contacted our local hospital. Mrs MA is awaiting a CT scan sometime this afternoon and has an appointment at the trauma clinic tomorrow. We shall check further on the DVT issue. The response of the good old NHS has been excellent so far. The road to recovery begins! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bloody hell.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
@mountainaddict, pleased to hear you are home finally. What a relief. You have certainly learnt a lot about airlines, hospitals, airports and hotels. Hope the next part goes ok.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Been following - wishing Mrs. MA a swift recovery
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
@mountainaddict, good effort! Have you booked for next year yet 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Cheers all
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@mountainaddict, what an ordeal! So glad you're home. Here's to a full and speedy recovery for Mrs MA and a quiet return to normality for you.
There are numerous reasons why I've never been particularly keen to visit Japan; I won't go into them here but suffice it to say that you've added few more! As for skiing there, I'm a piste skier who will not venture off-piste any more and have pretty much decided that all my future skiing will happen in Italy, with maybe a return to favourite places in Switzerland if I win the lottery. All that Japow would be wasted on me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Likewise - no wish to visit Japan. I read an article on sailing in Japan - extraordinarily bureaucratic, very slow getting any clearance for port entries etc. And no RNLI waiting to rush to your rescue. You must be SO relieved to be home, mountainaddict.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Yes, very relieved indeed to be home.
Despite all that has happened, and the issues of mountain rescue, bureaucracy etc, we'd love to go back to Japan The powder is just beyond anything we could have ever imagined. It has to be skied to be believed.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 17-02-23 20:07; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@mountainaddict, phew. The whole ordeal sounds like a complete nightmare. We’ll done for navigating it all and keeping a level head on.
I’d echo what you had to say about JAL and their staff. When we were leaving Sapporo this year there was a pretty massive snowstorm our flight and some later ones being cancelled. The lasses at the desk reorganised our flights to earlier in the blink of an eye and whisked us through the airport to get us onto the flight and hence to our connection in Tokyo. Without them I reckon we’d have been stuck for sure.
Hope mrs MA gets the treatment she deserves from the NHS and heals up quickly.
So glad you haven’t let the experience tarnish your view of Japan too badly, the snow really is exceptional and well worth a revisit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@mountainaddict, good to hear your ordeal is over and you’re back home.
| rogg wrote: |
| So glad you haven’t let the experience tarnish your view of Japan too badly, the snow really is exceptional and well worth a revisit. |
Second that.
Being based in North America, I’m more used to off-piste INSIDE the resort boundary, without guides, which quite some selected Japanese resorts offer. I guess I’m able to sidestep the rescue issue.
That said, repatriation related to injury will still face the same bureaucracy. On the other hand, that’s something one has to accept traveling to countries one’s insurance company aren’t familiar with.  Japan in particular, one is just as liable to break one’s ankle on the sidewalk as breaking a leg on the ski slopes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@mountainaddict, @mooney058, if powder in Japan so good and this can be enjoyed within resort boundaries, and if rescue outside resort boundaries is so precarious, why are you being brought outside resort boundaries, or to resorts with little to offer within boundaries. I take Mooney's point, it would work if is true that there was loads of in bounds powder. Or is in bounds all tracked out by 10am? Or guides justifying themselves by bringing you out of bounds where you wouldn't go on your own?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@peanuthead, inbound off-piste is not the same as back country. There may be powder pockets. But you don’t have the wilderness experience. When I was in Japan, I stayed in a lodging favored by lots of back country skiers. While I got some powder runs from time to time, they got powder day after day!
| peanuthead wrote: |
| Have never been to Japan, always wanted to go, but with this knowledge, if I wanted to do backcountry, I will probably just go to France. I'm too long in tooth to risk a twisted ankle being a life threatening event |
The “instant rescue” is mostly a European thing. Even in North America, it’s not guaranteed in all locations. Backcountry skiers, indeed all backcountry users, are advised to pack for potential of extensive wait, i.e. sufficient warm clothing while awaiting for rescue.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Fri 17-02-23 23:19; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I don't think it's reasonable to expect "instant rescue" anywhere outside pisted runs. It must sometimes take many hours for mountain rescue teams to reach casualties even in Scotland, where there's a strong tradition and many highly skilled and dedicated teams. Though they probably don't often take as long as some ambulances have to reach people with broken hips in British towns in the past few months!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
True nowhere can you expect instant rescue. To be fair most or all guides or instructors I've skied off piste with in Europe have been quite conscientious about route planning during conditions that might not be favourable to rescues in case of accident. And helicopter rescues far far from marked pistes seem to be daily occurrence in St Anton anytime I've been there, and seem to be very efficient.
I don't know much about USA skiing apart from what I've read on this forum, but my impression is there is so much in bounds off piste, (where rescues are just as efficient as in Europe) that there is little need to go out of bounds. Or is that incorrect?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| peanuthead wrote: |
| I don't know much about USA skiing apart from what I've read on this forum, but my impression is there is so much in bounds off piste, (where rescues are just as efficient as in Europe) that there is little need to go out of bounds. Or is that incorrect? |
No, not quite.
While there’s a lot of inbound off-piste, competition is fierce. So there’s a lot of motivation to go out of bound to get away from the crowds.
But the moment one goes out of bound, both avi risk and injury rescue goes into a totally different situation. Some locations, rescue response is relatively quick. Others, not so much.
I got the impression in the Alps, weather is the main consideration as it makes helicopter not able to fly. In North America, there’s the additional consideration of high tree lines. Choppers can’t land willy nilly everywhere.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| mountainaddict wrote: |
Yes, very relieved indeed to be home.
Despite all that has happened, and the issues of mountain rescue, bureaucracy etc, we'd love to go back to Japan The powder is just beyond anything we could have ever imagined. It has to be skied to be believed. |
Great to hear that you're back and Mrs MA is being looked after
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| peanuthead wrote: |
| @mountainaddict, @mooney058, if powder in Japan so good and this can be enjoyed within resort boundaries, and if rescue outside resort boundaries is so precarious, why are you being brought outside resort boundaries, or to resorts with little to offer within boundaries. I take Mooney's point, it would work if is true that there was loads of in bounds powder. Or is in bounds all tracked out by 10am? Or guides justifying themselves by bringing you out of bounds where you wouldn't go on your own? |
This is why you go to to Japan
Green run, within the resort boundaries
https://www.instagram.com/p/CoqGx0dIKyd/
Red run, within the resort boundaries
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cot_e7-IkGu/
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
@peanuthead, competition for fresh tracks is of course there. From my short experience I most preferred smaller resorts to bigger areas. This is not to say I disluked Rusutsu, Furano, Niseko or Kiroro. On the contrary. It is just that smaller local hills are more relaxed, much less competition
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
It’s just the wrong focus, IMV.
Rescue from “back country”, no matter how “close” it is to the resort, is going to be different from skiing within the resort. People who can’t or don’t want to plan for potential delay in rescue shouldn’t go back country, period.
The idea that having a guide “make the backcountry safe” is misguided (sorry for the punt). Guides may shoulder some of the planning to mitigate the potential risk. But the risks are still there. Guides can’t make those risk go away completely. Guides are not gods.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
@abc, I think the guide did actually make a mistake in this instance, by approaching the wrong ski patrol. Whether any actual damage (in the negligence sense) was caused by him barking up the wrong tree, and the delay thereby incurred, is a matter for speculation. It may have been unfortunate, but without affecting the outcome.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@mountainaddict, glad to read you made it back.
I think what can be learnt from this thread is to make damn sure that whatever company you're booked with, if going outside of resort/ski touring etc then as @chrisJersey, and I indeed mentioned after our horrendous guide experience is that you go with recognised qualified guides that know the score in Japan, or just accept the risks as many do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Mike Pow wrote: |
| peanuthead wrote: |
| @mountainaddict, @mooney058, if powder in Japan so good and this can be enjoyed within resort boundaries, and if rescue outside resort boundaries is so precarious, why are you being brought outside resort boundaries, or to resorts with little to offer within boundaries. I take Mooney's point, it would work if is true that there was loads of in bounds powder. Or is in bounds all tracked out by 10am? Or guides justifying themselves by bringing you out of bounds where you wouldn't go on your own? |
This is why you go to to Japan
Green run, within the resort boundaries
https://www.instagram.com/p/CoqGx0dIKyd/
Red run, within the resort boundaries
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cot_e7-IkGu/ |
I prefer this one
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Co0_5L1oDAV/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@mountainaddict, Sorry to read about your bad experience!! Such a shame that happened after only 4 days.
I've only had minor medical issues in Japan and found the experience to be a bit slow and bureaucratic, but also quite cheap, although always have travel insurance anyway. I'll definitely carefully consider the potential for massive hassle in the event of more serious injury during my future trips, after reading about your experience.
Regarding strong painkillers, you can pick up ibuprofen or paracetamol mixed with codeine off the shelf in Japanese drug stores, sold as cough/cold medicine, similar to what is available in the UK but prescription-only in many countries!
This time on my 2nd or 3rd run of the day in Rusutsu, I had a very innocuous fall in very deep powder in the trees while skiing alone and lost a ski - and then took 2.5 hours to find it! Absolutely knackering work and a huge amount of digging, it ended up being much further down the hill than I had estimated. If it had happened on the last run of the day just before lifts closing, I would have been in a bit of a tricky situation. I think I will purchase something like resqski or powder ribbons.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
I've seen it mentioned by Cody Townsend that he carries a GPS tracker that has an SOS option. Could that be something useful in some of these situations. Or again does the action depend on the rescue services available.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
