Zipfits - have they gone bust?

A snowHead

I'm very much enjoying the duality of this thread.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@Peter Stevens, have you tried skiing with your boots with your new Zipfits in yet? I found it took a couple of days to get used to how to get mine to the right level of tightness, but that may be as I put the Zipfits into the boots before I put my feet in, so don't have quite such good access to the laces. Maybe I should have another go at figuring out how to put the Zipfits in my feet then slip them into the boots - can anyone advise on the technique for this?

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Not yet. I plan to be in Italy mid January.

I wore the boots at home for a few hours just to see... all good. Very comfy. My finding is that it is easy to get OUT of the shells (with the ZF liners on) just by pushing down on the back of the shell. The foot with the liner strapped to it just pops out. Hard to describe it without a diagram. Getting IN is harder; it needs one's foot (+liner) carefully aligned with the direction of the boot, and then you sort of stand up and use your weight.

This is altogether much better than getting in and out of the assembled lining+boot combination, which is what I was always doing (with different linings though). I found getting IN wasn't too bad but getting OUT was painful due to the plastic of the shell cutting the front of my foot.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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Apart from keeping the shells warm, one thing that I have done with my race boots is to grind down any of the lumps remaining from when the shells were made. The date of manufacture is usually stamped into the plastic in various places and can be quite rough. As well as making it easier to slide the liner on your foot into the shell it reduces wear on the outside of the liner.

I also wear some old work gloves to hold open the shell while I'm putting them on.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I was treated to a demonstration from @Gämsbock at the PSB of how to get out of the shells with the Zipfits still on. I wouldn't say it looked easy Toofy Grin

After all it is free

I've never been able to get a Zipfitted foot into a boot! I was comfortable within a very short time of fitting, but it was years before I started lacing the Zipfits up.

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If it is freezing cold after a day on a glacier and you can get em off, stand in a bath of hot water. Have seen this done in desperation and bone tiredness Toofy Grin

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I suspect sitting in a warm bar for a couple of hours would also work and you could hydrate at the same time

I can't get a zipfitted foot into my shell but can get get in regular style if the boots are warm. End of day bit of traction of back of liner usually produces liberation.

Once you've experienced the cushtiness of a wool lined toebox I'm not sure there is a way back.

You know it makes sense.

@sugarmoma666

I have just done an experiment to see if I can get in and out of the shells with the liners already in.

Getting in was just too hard. I did however succeed once they were warmed-up, with an electric boot heater which I have because a lot of hotels have ski lockers without heaters, or the heaters don't work, or there is no ski locker.

Getting out is easy.

My shells (Head Nexo 110 LYT) are stiffer, and have sharper edges near the tongue area, than anything I've had before.

Getting in and out with the liners on the feet is clearly preferred (much better access to the lace and the velcro strap which goes over the lace) and is easy enough if you get a really good grip on the shells, down in the base of the tongue area, and open them right up. No use opening them up near the top of the shell. I can see why someone above uses work gloves for this; it's a great way to break one's fingernails off.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A few hints/thoughts:

1. As above, grind off any sharp edges inside the boot. Not only will it make it easier to put on, but also it will help save the liners.

2. Get some super-slippery duct tape, or anti-friction tape - if you can find it, and run a strip of tape up the back of the boot.

3. Pull the shell apart as much as possible when putting them on.

4. Use the genuflect manoeuvre to remove the boots - it is described on the Zipfit website.

Once you get used to them, you will find it quite easy. I don’t have any dramas even when the boots are cold.

The advantages of following the recommended process are: easy adjustment of the laces and the heel pocket does not get mashed by you dragging your ankle in/out of it.

PS I have never needed work gloves. Needing them suggests you are doing something wrong. It is not that difficult!!!

A snowHead

"Use the genuflect manoeuvre to remove the boots - it is described on the Zipfit website."

I can't find it there, and the term doesn't google to anything obvious.

A snowHead

The website has changed since I last looked at it.

A quick Google yielded:
http://youtube.com/v/BUli9WRIh0A

Basically, to genuflect is to “take the knee”, as per the video.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Oh yes, that indeed works.

I have to open up my boots a lot more than he is doing though, to get in.

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@ulmerhutte, good tip on taping the spine of the boot. Another thing I started doing years ago was filling in gaps on the inside of the shell where the canting bolts and cuff to clog bolt is on the spine of the boot with bathroom sealant. I use heaters and was finding that the cable running up the back of the liner would crack and fail after being pushed into the depression that the bolt/nut sat in.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

wow , this went a bit off piste

After all it is free

Done a few days on my new Zipfits and they are excellent. Right away from the start.

Also getting in and out is much easier than ever before, using the method where you leave them on. In fact it would be tricky if not leaving them on because you would have poor access to the lace.

I took one of the shells to a ski shop in Cervinia to get yet another ankle adjustment (always have an issue with my left ankle) and the owner was looking at the liner with a lot of curiosity. He had heard of them, just about.

Thanks to the shop in Bicester!

@Peter Stevens,

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

I went for a fitting appointment for a pair of Zipfits after New Year. The liners were Gara Stealth and the boots were Atomic Redster Pro 120.

The liners were heated and various pads were applied to my feet along with a neoprene toe cap to allow for a bit less pressure around the bony bits of my feet and to provide a bit of wiggle room for my toes. Once heated, my feet went into some plastic bags and then into the liners and into the boots. With some prodding and a fair bit of effort, the boots were closed tight and I assumed a skiing position and was left for 10 mins for the cork to settle a bit and cool down. The fit was very tight and the boots were just about closed. I then removed the boots and took the packing off my feet and put a pair of socks on, then put the boots back on. This was not too bad given that there was still some heat left in them. I still couldn't close the boot very easily, especially between buckles 2 and 3. I then stood in the boots for 30 mins or so and flexed them repeatedly, trying to pressure them in skiing type movements to move the cork around. Eventually, I took them off and went home.

A couple of days later I went to put them on again to give them some more work and found that I couldn't actually get my feet into them. I tried the liners first, boots second, way which worked ok but I still struggled to do them up and get any real overlap on the lower shell. I tried laces on and off but it didn't help much. I was concerned that there was just too much volume in the liner for my boots.

Back to the shop and they agreed that it wasn't going to work with the boot. We tried a couple of other after market liners and a pair of Atomic Hawx liners but all were too bulky. I then spotted a pair of Atomic CS 130 in the same size as my boots and tried this liners in my boots. Perfect fit! Unfortunately, I couldn't get those liners separately so I bought those boots instead, at a substantial discount (which was nice of the shop, as I think we both wanted to get something out of the visit!).

I am pleased with the result and the boots feel fantastic and very comfy with only a basic heat fit. Maybe next time I'll look for the World Cup Zipfits which are tricky to come by these days.

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@Klamm Franzer, the world cup zipfit and the gara and pretty much the same thing in terms of volume, they make a liner called the Corsa which is suited to very low volume shells, the shell you had/and now have should be able to accept the gara without topo much issue, but it dies depend a little on the foot, the problem of getting in is not uncommon but most people can get a technique to get into the shell, as for closure as the liner settles this changes

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I use a heated boot bag and heat them up every night and they are a dream to put in every morning. Also amazing when driving to a cold car park and so you can plug into the car power source and then stand on a nice warm mat Happy

ALWAYS with the boot liner then taken out and the foot slid into the shell with the liner on. This helps get the boot in the liner on and aligned correctly and doesn't squidge the cork around trying to force your foot into a boot. - @CEM, may be getting in touch very soon as I think the time has come for new foot beds and maybe a fresh pair of Zipfits too. Mine have had a few hundred days and stink ! Laughing

Two ski trips later, Zipfits have been the most comfortable solution for me, but not without an issue which had to be solved.

The edge of the tongue has something which pretty effectively cuts my calf. This pic is after 1 week:

https://imgur.com/a/dGi5qDU

and I had to use shin protectors but located over that area, instead of around the shin
http://www.shinshields.com/

The big "cut" you see was after just one day, and to the left of it is a faint one which is 4 weeks older and was worse at the time than the visible one.

At first I suspected it was a ridge in the socks (which had a stitched feature at just the right place) so I bought some completely smooth silk+merino socks (40 euros!) and still got the 2nd one in just the first day of the next trip.

The boots should not be over-tight; I am using the same setting which the Zipfits shop set up for me, and they don't feel tight. They just rub in that spot. The cut is mirror-imaged on both calves Smile

The shin protectors (located inside socks) have completely solved the problem. I wonder if anyone else has found this, or whether anyone can think of the cause. It could also be my boots (Head) have something there.

You know it makes sense.

"...The edge of the tongue has something which pretty effectively cuts my calf..."

If that the case surely you'd be able to see the offending "thing"?

"...the socks (which had a stitched feature at just the right place)..."

Whatski socks have sticking like that?

My guess is you're still doing something wrong.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Sounds like a weird result from zipfits - are you sure you aren't rolling the padding on the tongue when you are putting them on as seems highly unlikely you'd need to pad additionally if the tongue is properly seated. There also shouldn't be any "rub" as your leg shouldn't really be moving relative to the liner. That said everyone is different and capable of their own weird foot problems

A snowHead

See here https://ibb.co/sv3wYJs

I found the culprit. The tongue has edges which have folded back in. It's always been like that. No way to get rid of it, either; the edges just spring right back.

The left edge (in the pic) does this, in just one day (warning: a bit gory)

https://ibb.co/5h9ft4M

If anyone has any ideas on how to fix the tongue edges, I am all ears.

Otherwise I will have to use a shin protector which sits around the calf both left and right, even though this problem currently happens only on the inside of each calf.

It takes a month to heal up.

Looks like a manufacturing defect to me. I will send pics to Zipfits and see what they say.

A snowHead

Looks to me like you either messed up putting them on or the odd socks you had on (got caught on the stitching you mentioned? ) and you skied like that and it distorted the tongue, causing a permanent problem. Never heard of anyone else having that happen so I doubt it's the zipfits design.

That had to be uncomfortable or at least noticeable from the start. Why didn't you stop and check it?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

There is only one way to get into the liners; no way to bend the tongue edges in like that by accident.

It is noticeable only after the tongue edge has ground through the skin, to create that "burn", which takes some hours.

The socks were just normal ski socks - like these https://www.deporvillage.it/calze-x-bionic-ski-touring-silver-4-0-grigio-arancione. TBH I think these super cleverly padded socks are mostly snake oil, and smooth socks are just as good.

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Link doesn't work but... Normal ski socks don't have "a stitched feature" just where they ought to be smooth. As for "...super cleverly padded socks are mostly snake oil..." Well I guess you just know something nobody else does.

Also Dave above is right when he says there shouldn't be any perceptible movement between calf and boot. If your boot was tight you'd feel that straight away in the boot room.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Try this link
https://www.deporvillage.it/calze-x-bionic-ski-touring-silver-4-0-grigio-arancione
I put a full stop after the one above.

When you create an item of clothing by stitching a pattern visible on the outside, you also end up with the same pattern on the inside. Anyway, it wasn't the socks.

To get zero movement within the boots, they would need to be awfully tight.

Do you mean there should be zero vertical movement, or zero lateral movement? The latter is very hard to achieve. The former is more possible, by making the middle two buckles really tight. The shop advised me to start by doing up the 2nd from the top, first, which makes sense.

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

That is what I do, too. Works great.

After all it is free

There'll never be zero movement but no-one said that. You did say you havent adjusted any buckles since your zf fitting. Hard to believe your boots are tight when most people have to adjust after a couple of runs every day.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

I normally start with the bottom two done up as they have always been. The advice from the shop was that they mostly keep water out, especially the bottom one (the front-most one).

The upper two I do up by 1 position, before the first ski. At this point I've been wearing the boots for 30-60 mins (even if staying in a "ski in ski out" apartment, the lifts take time e.g. in Cervinia, bottom of Plan Maison to Salette takes best part of an hour). After this point I don't feel the need to go any tighter on the buckles, but usually tighten up the "booster strap" a bit, a few times (that strap is at the very top of the liner and nowhere near the "injury location").

I've had different boots, and different liners, in the past which felt they needed gradual tightening up through the day.

One thing I learnt early on (I started only a few years ago) is that loosening the boots for walking is not a good idea. I see a lot of people do it but I just got blisters from loose boots.

Help!!

Zipfits - have they gone bust?

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