 Poster: A snowHead
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@jjams82, if it's for relatively short water crossings whilst hiking (rather than watersports), 2 common ultralight options are:
1) Old/thin pair of socks, put insoles inside them (either a spare pair, or from your shoes) and carry shoes round your neck. Works for easier/non rocky crossings.
2) Remove socks and insoles from trainers, cross in trainers barefoot and walk on a mile or 2 to squeeze all the excess water out, then put socks/insoles back and walk another hour or 2 and your shoes will be at most mildly damp. Works for harder crossings where you want good protection and traction.
I reckon 90%+ of crossings I just plough through regardless, very occasionally I take my socks off, and if it is an easy/sandy bottomed crossing, I might pull my shoes and socks off.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@snowdave, Nifty tricks.
I'm less of a water crossing type (though I occasionally have to do so) and more of a "ohhhhhh what lies down this stream/river" type. It all intermingles though eh.
Side note: Sometimes the stream/river leads to fun... Other times, the gorge leading to Fairy Falls in particular, it leads to a very very bad idea. We were very lucky the river was low that day. Ahhh dumbass youthful adventures:D
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I rather love the old/spare insoles in socks idea btw.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Interesting debate. As part of sports coach training I did an "injury prevention and management" course. Someone asked if after going over on an ankle (quite common in that sport) should you wear an ankle support. And the teacher said no, wearing an ankle support all the time or indeed high top trainers, was bad as the ankle would rely on that support and grow weaker. They said maybe in the later stages of a training session or in a competitive match (whilst rehabilitating) but try not to become dependent on it. I guess in some ways this translates to walking/hiking boots. I've worn high tops for years and always assumed it was better. But this thread has given me food for thought now.
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
| ... I think there was an article a while back about how too many inexperienced and unprepared people were trying to climb Mt blanc. They had selected a photo of someone going up in just trainers to make their point. They didn't realise that photo was Kilian Journet breaking the speed record :... |
It doesn't count unless he also had a Tesco carrier bag. If you're expecting poly-bagging opportunities then you need a folded fertilizer sack in the Tesco bag. Carrier bags aren't up to it, although they're adequate for keeping your hands warm.
I did find my big plastic mountain boots extremely useful for buying a "permit" from the warden at one US national park.
He gave us a stern safety lecture about stinging nettles, poison ivy and other dangers in his canyons.
Having obtained the permit, we returned to our vehicle, swapped boots and fancy trousers for Keens and bike shorts and got on with it.
One place where I wore sandals & shorts but should have used big boots and long pants for was shooting this below.
After a 4 in the morning Land Cruiser ride three of us got out and walked across the desert for about an hour into the dawn to get to the location.
About half way through I noticed my first rattlesnake, right where I was about to put my sandal.
For crossing rivers in AK you want waders, a Zodiac, or a float plane.
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| philwig wrote: |
| boarder2020 wrote: |
| ... I think there was an article a while back about how too many inexperienced and unprepared people were trying to climb Mt blanc. They had selected a photo of someone going up in just trainers to make their point. They didn't realise that photo was Kilian Journet breaking the speed record :... |
It doesn't count unless he also had a Tesco carrier bag. If you're expecting poly-bagging opportunities then you need a folded fertilizer sack in the Tesco bag. Carrier bags aren't up to it, although they're adequate for keeping your hands warm.
I did find my big plastic mountain boots extremely useful for buying a "permit" from the warden at one US national park.
He gave us a stern safety lecture about stinging nettles, poison ivy and other dangers in his canyons.
Having obtained the permit, we returned to our vehicle, swapped boots and fancy trousers for Keens and bike shorts and got on with it.
One place where I wore sandals & shorts but should have used big boots and long pants for was shooting this below.
After a 4 in the morning Land Cruiser ride three of us got out and walked across the desert for about an hour into the dawn to get to the location.
About half way through I noticed my first rattlesnake, right where I was about to put my sandal.
For crossing rivers in AK you want waders, a Zodiac, or a float plane. |
Nice - Needles district?
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| Quote: |
And the teacher said no, wearing an ankle support all the time or indeed high top trainers, was bad as the ankle would rely on that support and grow weaker.
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A lot of truth in that constantly supporting a joint will result in it getting weaker. I'm not sure that's true for high top shoes though, as it seems they offer little in actual ankle support. Best advice is to not get injured I the first place by following a decent strength and conditioning program with some prehab exercises.
It would be interesting to see just how high and stiff you would need to make a shoe to really prevent ankle injuries. I suspect it wouldn't be at all comfortable for walking and you would get to a point where the injury was just transferred up the leg (not dissimilar to ski boots). Goodbye twisted ankle, hello torn ACL.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@boarder2020, in my sport (volleyball) I think a lot of young players see ankle supports as a badge of honour. But I find it a real shame to see players in their late teens/early 20's with full on ankle supports.
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Meindl Douvre Extreme all the way assuming it's below 25 degrees Celsius.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Not keen on the old spare insoles and socks for water. I'd end up with wet dirty socks, which I'd try and dry on the outside of the backpack and then end up losing them. The stoney alpine terrain I'm usually in would cut the socks to pieces anyway.
Either use the keen sandals that I posted earlier (although sometimes get small stones in them but it's no big deal to flush it out with water) or something like these for water
Water shoes
Only use boots to keep the water, mud, snow or cold out - or because I need crampons. When I lived in the UK I'd be out most weekends in the UK hills with the ramblers - leather boots (treated with nikwax/grangers or something similar) was normally the order of the day to deal with the wet weather / mud. Waterproof membranes failed over time.
Once over did it with the boots. Did a crossing of the Großglockner (3798m) in a pair of La Sportiva Nepal top's (2kg+ boots with flat sole / full crampon compatibility). From 2000m to around 3200m altitude I was walking as if in ski boots / like Robocop while the two friends I was with had it easy in walking boots. Once we got onto steeper terrain that reversed, my mountain boots were then great while they were struggling to hold their footing on the rocks and their calves were burning. It was 20 years ago and I was new to Austria at the time, the other two were Austrians and they laughed at the level of kit I had "We are going up zee Großglockner not Everest". The way down was a disaster, got lost in fog and ended up in a 50 deg + valley with ice. One of them slipped while we were roped up together - my mountain boots, proper crampons and ice axe stopped us ending up in a crevasse.
For the UK I'd probably go for trail runners in summer and lightweight leather boots for the winter/wet weather.
For alpine terrain I use mountains trainers in the summer and crampon compatible mountains boots in the winter.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'm a bit of a boot fetishist - got about 15 pairs of hiking boots, and 10 pairs of rockboots...
And I'd recommend going to a shop and seeing which fit best, as well as being realistic about what you're going to use them for.
So if it's just light trails, with no bogs, screes etc a lightweight trainer type approach shoe is fine - my personal preference for these is 5-10 mid-tennies (non-waterproof) or Sportiva Boulder X for slightly heavier duty wetness. Both of these cope extremely well with rock - climbed up to VS in both!
If you're intending to do 3 season mountain stuff good brands are Hanwag, Meindl, Lowa, Sportiva, Scarpa, Dolomite, Garmont, Salewa (there's quite a few more!), but I'd look for solidity; a purely textile upper won't last as long as leather (usually - my Garmont and Scarpa Marmolada boots have some suede and lots of textile, Garmonts have been going to 12 years, Scarpas for 4 and still look mostly like new). I've recently bought a pair of Lowa Baldos (available in 3 widths) and they're the most comfortable I've had this side of the Sportiva Boulder X mids. I've also found that Salmon boots are incredibly comfy too, but don't last (max 2 years for me), and that for some reason Scarpa soles are much less grippy on wet rock than my other boots.
And teh boots I've used most over the years have been full-on stiff mountain boots - Sportiva Nepal Extreme -because despite their weight they're surprisingly comfortable, can cope with anything (I've led E2 in them!) and give more stability on rough and loose stuff than anything else I've tried. Not quite so good for driving in though!
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| Quote: |
Sportiva Nepal Extreme -because despite their weight they're surprisingly comfortable, can cope with anything (I've led E2 in them!)
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You have 10 pairs of rock boots as well. What do you use them for?
I think you probably do have a fetish - have you seen a physcologist about it?
Jumping back to crossing water. I have found the use of walking sticks (for some reason now referred to as treking poles) essential if the water is flowing at any sort of speed or the smooth rocks are moss covered. They are also good for probing depths to avoid deeper bits. And of course a well positioned pole vault.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| ...Needles district? |
That's Monument Valley's "totem pole" at dawn. Probably the only place I thought ever felt under-equipped in the footwear department for reasons given.
When I first went to Monument Valley I didn't get it at all, it was dusty, hot and horrible and full of tourists, plus the scenery didn't match up with the other stuff in that part of the world.
I went back a few years later with a snowboarding buddy who was also local... and ended up making multiple trips there all of which were spectacular. The trick, for what it's worth,
is to spend money on a local guide, which gets you into the places the tourists aren't allowed into, like the location that shot's from or Hunt's Mesa which is insanely good.
Actually I just remembered that the sandals I had for shooting that photo were not Keen, they were "five fingers",
because our Navaho guide tried to buy them off me once he realized he couldn't just take them off my corpse.
I declined as they were hard to get hold of at the time, and they left funky footprints in the sand.
| ls wrote: |
| ... the boots I've used most over the years have been full-on stiff mountain boots - Sportiva Nepal Extreme -because despite their weight they're surprisingly comfortable, can cope with anything (I've led E2 in them!) and give more stability on rough and loose stuff than anything else I've tried. Not quite so good for driving in though! |
Yeah I have massive plastic boots which are also astoundingly comfortable and are definitely the "cope with anything" choice.
But it all depends on the conditions... Sorrells are hard to beat in deep powder for example. Unless it's "coastal" in which case you want the waterproof ones.
I particularly hate leather for UK use. If you get them wet and can't dry them over multiple sequential days, they break.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| philwig wrote: |
| I particularly hate leather for UK use. If you get them wet and can't dry them over multiple sequential days, they break. |
A low heat dryer such as this
low heat boot dryer
and proper leather treatment (water proofing and leather conditioner) is the key (esp. where the boots flex)
https://www.webtogs.com/de-AT/blog/caring-for-leather-walking-boots
Stuffing them with newspaper also helps dry them out if you can't get to a plug socket.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Tue 13-04-21 16:41; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Lost in the trees, "Lost in indecision" Apt.
It's like asking for 'what's a good ski'
I generally look and see what is good value / fits and people seem happy with anything from trail running shoes to 4 season crampon ready beasts.
I've found really lightweight boots to be good (Inov8 Rocklites- the boots)- but they aren't the best if v wet / muddy. But I'm unlikely to be out if that would be the case.
Something that; a) fits, meaning b) isn't too small when walking downhill once your feet have swollen c) has some cushioning d) is not too heavy for what you want to do.
I think that just like skis it is very easy to be 'over booted'.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I guess depends what you do. Summer/winter (mostly dry/mostly wet), good quality trails in the alps or pathways in uk, or no marked routes expedition for 2 weeks. Or high alpine more than 4k meters mountains with glaciers where crampones are required. All these ideally require different shoes/boots.
Currently Im planning lightweight (not ultralight) 2 weeks trakking in the Alpes in the summer on good quality routes, GR54, the plan is to use trail running shoes ie La Sportiva Akyra or salomon x ultra, without goretext. Same route in the autumn, will be mid goretext boots (still salomon x ultra mid).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Would suggest ,instead of asking on here where everyone has different feet and different demands as to where they want to walk scramble or climb what they consider to be a good allround boot go to a specialist where you can try several and have them fitted by someone trained in boot fitting. I bought mine in resort i expained what i intended to do with them and i have a pair if good fitting supportive boots. My daughter went to Cotswold outdoors and got equally good service and advice.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| johnE wrote: |
You have 10 pairs of rock boots as well. What do you use them for?
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I play in a couple of bands; rockboots help with the performance...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| brock wrote: |
| Would suggest ,instead of asking on here where everyone has different feet and different demands as to where they want to walk scramble or climb what they consider to be a good allround boot go to a specialist where you can try several and have them fitted by someone trained in boot fitting. I bought mine in resort i expained what i intended to do with them and i have a pair if good fitting supportive boots. My daughter went to Cotswold outdoors and got equally good service and advice. |
But isn't that an intrinsic part of forum like this? To get a wide ranging view from people informed by genuine use of equipment that's of interest. Bringing into focus products that are possibly manufactured and supplied through routes not experienced by the OP, it may direct us to a particular outlet that has something not previously considered when asking the question.
I found the choices in this thread very interesting, particularly when placed and backed by description with theatre of use, longevity, comfort and limitations from people that really have experience.
Not that a shop doesn't have skilled personnel, more that the two elements are complementary, and coinciding, may drive you toward a particularly good solution.
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@ski3, +1
On here, the OP (if (s)he's still around!) is getting views from people who do everything from taking the dog for a walk in the UK, climb 4,000m+ peaks, ice climb, rock climb, run ultra marathons, hike multi-thousand mile treks, live in the alps, live in the UK, use sandals, five fingers, go canyoning, travel to Nepal, Canada, US, Alps, Oz etc. I doubt that any individual store is going to represent that breadth of experience.
I think it's also hard to work out which shops are any good. To me, getting walking boots fitted in Cotswold is the equivalent to getting ski boots fitted in Ellis Brigham. It might be fine, but I wonder how many people CEM sees who were "fitted" at major retail stores.
Finally, most shops will try and fit you with footwear that the most experienced hikers in the world would advise most heavily against, see my earlier quotes from Chris Townsend, Ray Jardine etc. I met a guy at the start of a long hike who'd been equipped by an experienced senior staff member at a huge REI (big outdoor chain) store in the US. Big boots, strong tent, extra warm sleeping bag etc. since he was going to be out for months, and was told he needed "the best", and thus also needed a huge heavy 3kg rucsac to carry this all in. Within 2 weeks he'd mailed nearly all the gear home. Heavy, uncomfortable, over-spec'd.
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@ski3,
+2
Find it best to ask on here about equipment, try to work out what could work for me and then source shops that have them in stock to try.
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| Leonard Smalls wrote: |
| johnE wrote: |
You have 10 pairs of rock boots as well. What do you use them for?
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I play in a couple of bands; rockboots help with the performance... |
Hope you have a pair of these confidence inspiring boots (they have wings!).
I especially like these rock boots as they have the Austrian flag on the side of the sole.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@DB, Elton will be pleased you are putting them to good use, i'll stick with my EB's rather than EJ's....
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| Quote: |
i'll stick with my EB's rather than EJ's....
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I'm impressed you still have a pair. Mine wore out long ago. There is one item of footware that hasn't been discussed yet - plimpsoles. I did a fair bit of what in the day was considered hard rock climbing on Stanage and other grit crags using a pair of plimpsoles bought from Woolworths.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@johnE,  that and the obligatory Buffalo jacket...and none of that backpack style carry-mat malarkey, an old mattress or 2 in the van for bouldering.
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Dubarry Cavan. Brilliant. Comfortable, lightweight. Look and wear like normal shoes but goretex lined and waterproof to halfway up lace holes.
Great on snow and ice and even after a day snow shoeing feet dry, warm and snug.
Proper Dubarry boots are even better.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Wed 14-04-21 17:16; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
I doubt that any individual store is going to represent that breadth of experience...
I think it's also hard to work out which shops are any good. To me, getting walking boots fitted in Cotswold is the equivalent to getting ski boots fitted in Ellis Brigham.
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Exactly. I don't suspect the average worker at Cotswold is any more knowledgeable than a lot of people on here. They are likely to have their own biases and maybe even just push what their store wants.
At least here you are getting a range of views you can then use to try to come to a conclusion.
Unless you are doing something particularly extreme or specific most things will work ok. It comes down to what things you personally value, then finding a boot/trail runner with those things that also feels good when you try it on.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| johnE wrote: |
I did a fair bit of what in the day was considered hard rock climbing on Stanage and other grit crags using a pair of plimpsoles bought from Woolworths. |
You were lucky!
All we had were a pair of nailed boots between 5 of us and a foot of frayed string!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
that and the obligatory Buffalo jacket...and none of that backpack style carry-mat malarkey, an old mattress or 2 in the van for bouldering.
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Bouldering hadn't even been thought of. As for matresses - have you felt the weight of them.
Plimsoles were actually very good for jamming in cracks, which was the bulk of the climbing we were doing at the time.
@Leonard Smalls, Tricouni or were you happy with hobnails?
I remeber reading a biography of Gwen Moffat (Space Below my Feet) years ago. Her views on climbing shoes were interesting and very inexpensive
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| johnE wrote: |
@Leonard Smalls, Tricouni or were you happy with hobnails?
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Happy? Never!
That's for Southern Jessies!
Saying that, my 1st pair of climbing boots were 2nd hand EBs bought from the newly opened Westway climbing centre - when it just consisted of a few concrete spikes and the enormous leaning overhang...
And we'd go there, or Mile End twice a week in order to get the skill to go out and attempt to kill ourselves on scarier Welsh stuff every weekend.
And finally succumbed to the practice of buying stupidly tight rockboots - I remember being shown by Tim Emmett how to bend my foot in just the right way to squeeze my size 9 foot into a size 7 Sportiva Mirage. I think that this enable us to climb hard simply to get to the top quicker in order to remove the infernal things!
Needless to say I now use size 9 rockboots, preferably with socks...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| DB wrote: |
...
For the UK I'd probably go for trail runners in summer and lightweight leather boots for the winter/wet weather.
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I've come to the same conclusion.
I've got awkward feet which have never got on with Merrells or Salomon. I have pretty much worn out my Meindl now which I did find comfortable, and I'd be tempted to stick with them if it wasn't for the surprisingly large numbers of negative reviews citing poor build quality. I'm after a pair of lightweight, waterproof, comfortable boots if anyone would care to throw some names in the ring, so I can track them down to try on.
Ta
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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For me, boots must be comfortable, waterproof & high enough to stop grit flicking into them. I hate having wet feet & having to stop to take my shoes/boots off to empty out the grit. I had Berghaus goretex that lasted about 2 years almost daily use before leaking & now I have Brasher leather with own brand waterproof liner & Vibram sole. Elastic laces are also a good idea.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Riccardo wrote: |
| DB wrote: |
...
For the UK I'd probably go for trail runners in summer and lightweight leather boots for the winter/wet weather.
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I've come to the same conclusion.
I've got awkward feet which have never got on with Merrells or Salomon. I have pretty much worn out my Meindl now which I did find comfortable, and I'd be tempted to stick with them if it wasn't for the surprisingly large numbers of negative reviews citing poor build quality. I'm after a pair of lightweight, waterproof, comfortable boots if anyone would care to throw some names in the ring, so I can track them down to try on.
Ta |
I wouldn't start with boots/footwear.
1. Go to a specialist and let him/her tell you what you need in terms of any orthotic insoles. They should also tell you what type of feet you have (low, medium high volume, pronation, high arches etc)
2. If you need insoles/a footbed then have one made.
3. Then search the 'tinternet for boots/footwear suitable for your volume foot and the terrain you will use them on.
e.g.
https://www.wellandgood.com/best-hiking-boots-wide-narrow-feet/
https://bootbomb.com/the-best-hiking-boots-for-men-and-women-comparison/the-best-hiking-shoes-for-men-and-women-with-wide-narrow-and-flat-feet-over-pronation/
https://hikingfeet.com/best-hiking-boots-for-narrow-feet/
4. Make a shortlist and find suppliers for footwear on the list.
5. Go and try various boots on with your insoles/footbeds and make a decision yourself.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Following this with interest, since I need to replace my approach shoes (trainer-like walking shoes). I got caught out in a rainstorm a few weeks ago and discovered the Goretex had failed where they flex with every step. They were Salomon and I can't complain about the use I got from them.
The trouble is I don't want to travel round the country looking for shops stocking particular brands - while @DB's links are very informative they are US based with many of the specific recommendations not being makes I have ever seen in the UK. But obviously I need to buy shoes I have tried on and feel work on my feet. Where I live there are no longer any independent outdoor shops staffed by well-informed enthusiasts so I will need to use a chain with staff who are basically just salespeople. A quick survey shows that Millets stock Merrell, Berghaus, Brasher and their Peter Storm own-brand; Rohan stock Obuz and Ecco; and the alternatives are lower end shops only selling their own brands, Mountain Warehouse and Trespass.
Alternatively I could just wait in the hope of getting to the Alps in the summer and visiting a decent shop there. The Salomons will be fine for fair-weather use until then, as long as I wear my bigger boots when there is a risk of rain.
Any thoughts?
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@j b, I don't normally buy clothes or shoes online. In fact with modern fibres I rarely buy either anyway. However when the heals of my current approach trainers became so worn they hurt to walk on I desperately needed to buy some replacements. I wear these shoes for everything from work to easy rock climbs. Needed to buy some shoes online. The obvious answer was to buy an identical make, model and size. It worked perfectly
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Online, I use sportsshoes.com, nike.com and asics.com. Sportsshoes charges £3 for return postage, Nike and Asics are free. Sportsshoes often has a lot of Goretex lined trail runners at big discounts (probably because so few trail runners want to buy them!), and if you need a large toe box, I can recommend Asics.
Order lots, try them on in the comfort of your own home, keep the ones you like.
Asics even used to (may still) have a "club" you could join where you could get a no-questions asked replacement within ?60? days. My son hiked >250 miles in his Asics trail runners in 4 weeks, and they were looking pretty tatty (getting chewed by a marmot when left outside a tent may have contributed) and we did contemplate using the no-question replacement policy, but decided it wasn't quite in the spirit of it!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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There's a lot of old tosh written about product in promoting them but I'd agree with what they've published in this instance
"Product description
Treksta Libero GTX Trail Running Shoes Treksta have built and designed a performance shoe packed with technical features for mountain approach and to still look appealing when not being specifically used for climbing which resulted in them creating the Libero. Technical for the crag, yet stylish for life away from the crag. Upper Featuring Treksta's T-frame construction to improve foot containment in both the propel phase and directional change phase and complete cupping of the heel holds your foot securely in place. Oily Split Suede upper with high density sponge for lateral foot protection against trail hazards. GORTEX is also used which makes the shoe fully waterproof and will ensure your feet stay dry and therefore more comfortable on the move. TFS allows for a natural and forgiving forefoot flex by reducing material at the flex point. Midsole and Ousole Midsole uses a Molded dual density EVA cushioning with a softer EVA at the heel for cushioning heel strike. Hypergrip Super gum outsole with multiple component rubber tread with independent climb, edge, grip and descent zones for reliable traction on any mountain trail."
Always an element of their own "unique" descriptors, but feel it accurately describes the product here.
I've no connection with the brand, apart from payed for user and very happy with them.
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FAQ
