 Poster: A snowHead
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@Hurtle, ^ +1
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I assume Huhamaki is polynesian for Goldsmith's old hosiery
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Huhtamaki Comments like 'SHs breaks the law here' and 'criminal records' are libellous and have no place on a collaborative, open forum like this.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
@skilegs, I'd just like to thank you for your many years of ski repping service in the past with the SCGB, and your excellent repping and leading on my first week in Wengen almost 20 years ago which led me (as you know) to become a Wengen regular.  |
One of the best reps. Looked after her party - and a darn good skier.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, apparently a Finland based international manufacturer of disposable food packaging and paper cups
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| On the rocks wrote: |
| @Dave of the Marmottes, apparently a Finland based international manufacturer of disposable food packaging and paper cups |
So disposable then, how apt! I think it definitely needs chucking in the bin. 
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| Huhtamaki wrote: |
I would agree this is a backward step but perhaps give the Club the benefit of the doubt and assume they looked at all the angles.
They have us Members interests at heart. I cannot but help make comparisons with this 'club' however.
1. SCGB is a properly constituted business - SHs looks like a sole trader
2. SCGB produces accounts available publicly - SHs does not
3. SCGB pays corporation tax, PAYE, VAT - SHs allegedly does not and never has but should do because we all bloody have to
4. SCGB holidays are bonded and money is protected - SHs breaks the law here unless the details are kept secret
5. SCGB has liability insurance - SHs does not appear to bother but you will only find out too late
6. SCGB staff are criminal records checked - oh allegedly that is a bit of a problem that one for SHs
But caveat emptor. I will stay supporting SCGB thanks. |
1. He's a properly constituted sole trader.
2. As a sole trader he doesn't have to make his accounts public.
3. As a sole trader he won't have to pay any corp tax. I assume he's VAT registered, be silly not to be. No PAYE as a sole trader either.
4. I'm not sure about this.
5. He may well be insured.
6. I think only those Leading on family holidays are CRB checked now. Certainly when the Club CRB check all the reps in about 2008, a few disappeared rather than be checked. I'd be amazed if all snowHeads were clean.
The VAT and bonding questions are interesting when it comes to snowHeads. Is it a tour operator or a travel agent? I don't really care but I assume it's all legal.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| ... Sounds like a thoroughly nasty piece of work to me. |
That's one thing I've learned here - the SCGB has some very nasty pieces of work "supporting" it. Shame on them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| philwig wrote: |
| Hurtle wrote: |
| ... Sounds like a thoroughly nasty piece of work to me. |
That's one thing I've learned here - the SCGB has some very nasty pieces of work "supporting" it. Shame on them. |
Well, I was shocked to read the reasons why achilles no longer goes on the b ashes. The threats of violence that preceded one of your summer BBQs a few years back were also quite staggering. I've saved the worst until last, that snowHead who ran that bar up in Tignes who used to abuse the Ski Club members, beat his Mrs up and bully the girls behind the bar. That's all way nastier than anything I've ever witnessed on a Ski Club trip which always are very good natured, although there are sometimes some challenging individuals to calm down.
Get your own house in order maybe?
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@Gerry, I think I can answer 4 & 5 with a (former) professional hat on for you.
4) - SH doesn't have to be bonded under travel provider legislation so
5) - Liability insurance? -- not if refers to 4 above. Other liabilities are unclear so irrelevant.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Agenterre wrote: |
@Gerry, I think I can answer 4 & 5 with a (former) professional hat on for you.
4) - SH doesn't have to be bonded under travel provider legislation so
5) - Liability insurance? -- not if refers to 4 above. Other liabilities are unclear so irrelevant. |
B ash prices include VAT do they? The Ski Club is a registered sports club so VAT exempt, that's why only members of the club can book on the holidays, unless things have changed.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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remind me to get a CRB* check next time I go on a ski holiday, just in case there might be other holidaymaker's children on the same transfer bus, or might end up in a ski lesson with teenagers or vulnerable adults 
(* or whatever they call it these days)
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| andy wrote: |
remind me to get a CRB* check next time I go on a ski holiday, just in case there might be other holidaymaker's children on the same transfer bus, or might end up in a ski lesson with teenagers or vulnerable adults
(* or whatever they call it these days) |
Companies have to do this, Andy. You won't need one. Kids will take one look at you and run a mile.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Gerry, Sports clubs need DBS checks too, even if the leaders are unpaid.
It probably comes down to whether someone within a group is actually considered to be leading it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Gerry wrote: |
| Agenterre wrote: |
@Gerry, I think I can answer 4 & 5 with a (former) professional hat on for you.
4) - SH doesn't have to be bonded under travel provider legislation so
5) - Liability insurance? -- not if refers to 4 above. Other liabilities are unclear so irrelevant. |
B ash prices include VAT do they? The Ski Club is a registered sports club so VAT exempt, that's why only members of the club can book on the holidays, unless things have changed. |
Sports Clubs do have to pay VAT. So no 'exemption' for the SCGB on that basis.
I suspect the SCGB is using its non-profit making status as a basis of not charging VAT under TOMS for its 'holidays'. Im not getting into who is Disclosed / Undisclosed as principal, nor getting into the SCGBs arrangements with HMRC which I don't know nor have any interest in.
Getting into areas of law I neither understand nor care about but no reason for :sH to charge Vat either as far as I can see as it just shifts accommodation at cost -- but as the Ts and Cs always say -- check with an independent professional first.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Suggest we lock Huhtakami and Goldsmith in a stranded storm bound gondola overnight to resolve these legal issues and get back to discussing the OP?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sports clubs and VAT:
https://www.accountancywales.com/social-clubs/faqs/sporting-clubs/vat-and-sporting-clubs/
| Agenterre wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| Agenterre wrote: |
@Gerry, I think I can answer 4 & 5 with a (former) professional hat on for you.
4) - SH doesn't have to be bonded under travel provider legislation so
5) - Liability insurance? -- not if refers to 4 above. Other liabilities are unclear so irrelevant. |
B ash prices include VAT do they? The Ski Club is a registered sports club so VAT exempt, that's why only members of the club can book on the holidays, unless things have changed. |
Sports Clubs do have to pay VAT. So no 'exemption' for the SCGB on that basis.
I suspect the SCGB is using its non-profit making status as a basis of not charging VAT under TOMS for its 'holidays'. Im not getting into who is Disclosed / Undisclosed as principal, nor getting into the SCGBs arrangements with HMRC which I don't know nor have any interest in.
Getting into areas of law I neither understand nor care about but no reason for :sH to charge Vat either as far as I can see as it just shifts accommodation at cost -- but as the Ts and Cs always say -- check with an independent professional first. |
OK, I understand. Profit comes in the form of a fee charged to the accommodation operator then?
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 4-07-19 20:52; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| rjs wrote: |
@Gerry, Sports clubs need DBS checks too, even if the leaders are unpaid.
It probably comes down to whether someone within a group is actually considered to be leading it. |
Even if it's only adults?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Gerry wrote: |
| ...Even if it's only adults? |
He said "need", which I'm not sure is correct.
Certainly any employer can ask for a record check.
It's common for large companies in the UK to check all their employees as a matter of course, irrespective of role, in my experience.
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| Gerry wrote: |
3. As a sole trader he won't have to pay any corp tax. I assume he's VAT registered, be silly not to be. No PAYE as a sole trader either.
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I assume neither snowheads nor the ski club are vat registered (or need to be registered) as they don't display that information on their website as required by law. (update, ski club is VAT registered but doesn't disclose its VAT number in the "about us" page as it should, here is is: GB 239366536; AFAIKS Snowheads/Admin are not VAT registered and I don't think they have to be)
As for the rest of the allegations, absolutely nothing offered to back them up, as usual.
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| philwig wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| ...Even if it's only adults? |
He said "need", which I'm not sure is correct. |
UK ski instructors are required to have Enhanced DBS checks, I don't know whether this is law or just a decision of the governing bodies (BASI and UKSS). It may be possible to have your licence marked to indicate that you can only teach over 18s.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Gerry 'that snowHead who ran that bar up in Tignes who used to abuse the Ski Club members, beat his Mrs up and bully the girls behind the bar.'
You know this is a libel, don't you? If Snowheads was minded it'd be easy to track you down and sue. I daresay they won't because they are probably happy to let your comments serve as a reflection of the sort of membership attracted to SCGB.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Fri 5-07-19 10:48; edited 1 time in total
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| davidof wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
3. As a sole trader he won't have to pay any corp tax. I assume he's VAT registered, be silly not to be. No PAYE as a sole trader either.
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I assume neither snowheads nor the ski club are vat registered (or need to be registered) as they don't display that information on their website as required by law. (update, ski club is VAT registered but doesn't disclose its VAT number in the "about us" page as it should, here is is: GB 239366536; AFAIKS Snowheads/Admin are not VAT registered and I don't think they have to be)
As for the rest of the allegations, absolutely nothing offered to back them up, as usual. |
Unless his turnover is over the threshold then registration is optional.
It's claimed that he is just an intermediary, connecting suppliers with customers for a fee. With relatively simple billing like that it would be worth his while being VAT registered. He could then claim VAT back on all his business expenses.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Fri 5-07-19 11:01; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| LaForet wrote: |
@Gerry 'that snowHead who ran that bar up in Tignes who used to abuse the Ski Club members, beat his Mrs up and bully the girls behind the bar.'
You know this is a libel, don't you? If Snowheads was minded it'd be easy to track you down and sue. I daresay they won't because they are probably happy to let your comments serve as a reflection of the sort of membership attracted to SCGB. |
It wasn't their bar, just an individual who was one of their members. It's only libel if it's untrue, btw, but it just so happens to be true.
The SCGB should sue you:
| LaForet wrote: |
'I really love the Rep/Leader idea and elevate to god-like position those who perform this role.'
All the reps I've come across have been of a type: failed public schoolboys with a plummy accent and ingrained sense of entitlement whose pitch is along the lines of 'of course, anyone discerning would want to be a member, yah?' and a total inability to justify the cost/benefit of membership. I rejected joining when I was 35 and in the intervening 30 years, whenever I've revisited SCGB, I have seen nothing to change this. If anything, the market has moved on and I see even less benefits for the cost of membership in the Internet age.
And if you can't make a succinct case after 132 pages of posting, then I'd say the odds are that the proposition is no longer convincing. |
You sound like a complete loser to me.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Huhtamaki wrote: |
SCGB is a properly constituted business - SHs looks like a sole trader
SCGB produces accounts available publicly - SHs does not
SCGB pays corporation tax, PAYE, VAT - SHs allegedly does not and never has but should do because we all bloody have to
SCGB holidays are bonded and money is protected - SHs breaks the law here unless the details are kept secret
SCGB has liability insurance - SHs does not appear to bother but you will only find out too late
SCGB staff are criminal records checked - oh allegedly that is a bit of a problem that one for SHs
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Some of this is highly speculative and a bit naughty. Personally, as a scribbler with a 43-years reputation (of sorts) in ski magazines and other media, I prefer to write under my own identity, 'raising reasonable and responsible questions'. The important thing is to offer a right of response (and social media is absolutely perfect for that).
Are we making any progress, or will the silence of the universe continue? ["in space no one can hear you scream"]
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| I assume Huhamaki is polynesian for Goldsmith's old hosiery |
Nothing to do with me or my socks, old boy. See above.
| On the rocks wrote: |
| [Huhamaki] ... apparently a Finland based international manufacturer of disposable food packaging and paper cups |
Well let's hope that we can finally finnish and be done with this wretched topic. This is even more boring than Boris/Brexit (well, not quite).
| On the rocks wrote: |
| Suggest we lock Huhtakami and Goldsmith in a stranded storm bound gondola overnight to resolve these legal issues and get back to discussing the OP? |
I've no intention of spending a night in a stormbound gondola with a Finnish disposable packaging company. It would not resolve these matters anyway, but thanks for the suggestion.
David Goldsmith
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| Davina Goldballs wrote: |
Personally, as a scribbler with a 43-years reputation (of sorts) in ski magazines and other media, I prefer to write under my own identity, 'raising reasonable and responsible questions'. The important thing is to offer a right of response (and social media is absolutely perfect for that). Some of the above was covered in this posting, almost 4 years ago ...
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Yeah, there's nothing you like better than to gather together a partisan audience, tell lies about someone or an organisation then 'invite' them to respond. The sort of people who belive what you say are as fundamentally dishonest as you are.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Gerry 'You sound like a complete loser to me.'
Why so offensive? Do you really think an insult is going to convince anyone of the merit of your point of view? Don't you think you're getting a bit, well unbalanced about this?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| LaForet wrote: |
@Gerry 'You sound like a complete loser to me.'
Why so offensive? Do you really think an insult is going to convince anyone of the merit of your point of view? Don't you think you're getting a bit, well unbalanced about this? |
You're so funny. You expect to be able to come out with outrageous BS while expecting to be treated with the utmost respect and become all precious if you're not treated like a member of the royal family.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Who is Boulerz?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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And an average bit of trolling by Stanton. Just average.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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For the little I know, having worked previously on the SCGB for four years, the rep service is way too expensive for a company that is trying to see how to survive and come to a more viable future. Also, they had lots of headaches- cannot do it in France, Italy started to be difficult, really worth it? 10% of the ski clubs members uses the service (that was a couple of years ago) - and even though I am sure people really appreciate it, but if anything happens with anyone being led, you always have a headache, even if you are insured all over the place. I would not do that if this was my company, too much risk for not too much gain!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Martina10, I note that you refer to the SCGB as a company, not a club. You are of course correct, according to Companies House the Ski Club of Great Britain Limited was incorporated on 26 October 2001. With the loss now of its previous USP of offering members/customers an included ski leading service it will now even more have to compete directly with other ski tour operator companies who also have social reps in resort.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sun 7-07-19 12:58; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Alastair_Pink, you are right, it is a non-for-profit company - I think it still is a company. But they have to pay their costs and I remember the leaders' cost is pretty big in their numbers. I see it very difficult for the Ski Club to adapt for the future- most of the things it offers it is also offered for free by others. The only operating aspect is Freshtracks that was working well - at least their concept is pretty unique, compared to all other UK tour ops. The magazine is nice, but I would not pay a membership for the magazine, and if you are buying kit every year, that is good. Still the discounts, as someone noted above, if you want to use Skiset, at least when I used to rent for my kids, Skiset was more expensive, even with their massive discount offered, that going to the local shop that was better located by the slopes. From being inside, I've seen its concept as difficult.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Martina10 wrote: |
| For the little I know, having worked previously on the SCGB for four years, the rep service is way too expensive for a company that is trying to see how to survive and come to a more viable future. Also, they had lots of headaches- cannot do it in France, Italy started to be difficult, really worth it? 10% of the ski clubs members uses the service (that was a couple of years ago) - and even though I am sure people really appreciate it, but if anything happens with anyone being led, you always have a headache, even if you are insured all over the place. I would not do that if this was my company, too much risk for not too much gain! |
The Reps are still going out there so the cost is still there but without the leading risk. It amazes me that the Ski Club always seems to get criticised for organising skiing for its members. If 2,600 members resign over this then work out that loss.
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Find myself in agreement with Hurtle re Goldfish.
I might not be a member of SCGB but I’m not actively against it. Just not my thing, exactly. Some of the keyboard warrior aggression aimed at Gerry over the years seems OTT.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Sun 7-07-19 18:21; edited 1 time in total
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
| @Martina10, I note that you refer to the SCGB as a company, not a club. You are of course correct, according to Companies House the Ski Club of Great Britain Limited was incorporated on 26 October 2001. With the loss now of its previous USP of offering members/customers an included ski leading service it will now even more have to compete directly with other ski tour operator companies who also have social reps in resort. |
Hate to butt in but from Companies House:-
Company type
Private company limited by by guarantee without share capital
This will mean that it is owned by it's members.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm wondering how the Reps' social skiing days will work? Will they be categorised by skier ability or fitness? Will this be by Freshtracks grading? What if you don’t have one or it is very out of date or you are "self assessed"? If the Rep is not happy about a skiers ability does, or can he ask a skier to leave the group? Or does the Rep leave the group instead? On an Instructor Led Guiding day the guide will often set a simple test early on to confirm ability, I’m assuming the Rep won’t be authorised to do this? I fear that despite not wearing the blue jacket many members will ask “but what do you think...” putting him/her in a difficult position as a de-facto guide.
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| stevew wrote: |
| Alastair Pink wrote: |
| @Martina10, I note that you refer to the SCGB as a company, not a club. You are of course correct, according to Companies House the Ski Club of Great Britain Limited was incorporated on 26 October 2001. With the loss now of its previous USP of offering members/customers an included ski leading service it will now even more have to compete directly with other ski tour operator companies who also have social reps in resort. |
Hate to butt in but from Companies House:-
Company type
Private company limited by by guarantee without share capital
This will mean that it is owned by it's members. |
Indeed, I gather that in legal terms it's owned by what are called guarantors (which will be the members). In the event of it being wound up the guarantors (members) are liable to pay any debts or charges up to a maximum (specified in the Memorandum of Association) of £1. 
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FAQ
