 Poster: A snowHead
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Whilst in Les Gets, coming down Mont Chery, it was a lovely sunny day, a wide open red run and not much traffic on the slope, I was coming down in nice easy turns. As I hit a steeper section I started a shorter turn and as I came around someone flashed right in front of me, as I caught sight of him I saw two more flying at me from my right, obviously racing with the first bloke, the next one just managed to cut across behind me, but in doing so he also cut across his mates skis who was heading right for me, but he just managed to pass in front of me over my skis.
It happened very quickly and the main thing I remember is the look of fear then relief / excitement on the last guy when he realised that he would miss me.
They were probably late 20s / early 30s, two dressed as piste skiers (helmets and "normal" ski wear), one dressed as a park skier (bobble hat and baggy ski gear), and they flew down the slope away from me, only putting turns in to correct their trajectory.
It seemed clear that they didn't expect me to make a turn there and were barrelling past others and had chosen a gap that was closed when I turned.
I didn't see them after that, so no doubt they went straight on down the black run at the bottom, but they would have easily wiped me out if they had hit me, and while I'm sure they were hugely experienced skiers with lots of ability and they felt in control about being able to overtake me, they were also complete front bottoms who didn't leave enough margin for error and could have caused me serious injury.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've said before in two or three threads that I would happily pay a bit extra on my lift pass if it paid for some piste patrol guys to patrol and educate, and in extreme confiscate passes.
Amongst things needing education are dangerous straight lining, setting off without looking uphill, stopping in inappropriate places, groups blocking choke points, dodgy tosspots who aim for blue rinses.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@uktrailmonster, +1. If only everyone adopted this attitude and approach, there wouldn't be a problem.
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| @valais2Contrast with the very fast but beautifully controlled racers who often passed me on their way back from the Stade. |
The ski club racers are equally as dangerous in my view. They ski way too fast on public pistes and seem to confuse being very good skiers with a misplaced sense of papal infallibility.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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People who leave a couple of metres at the edge of the piste when they stop - you've left a door wide open, don't bitch when somoene goes through. Safer than dealing with the dicks down the scraped middle of the piste anyway.
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I would like to blame the resorts as well.
In days of yore you could race against your mates on the Hollywood Parallel slalom courses.
Avoriaz used to have one next to the half pipe, and I remember doing one in L2A too.
There was also a speed gun in Chalet-Neuf to compare straight line speeds.
Where resorts have discontinued these free facilities, people now just take it upon themselves to go as fast as they can, and compare their speeds at the cafe stops on their smart phone ski speed tracking apps.
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@WindOfChange, these seem to have been appearing in and around Chx over the last few years, not disappearing. Several BMW sponsored, timed slalom or park courses, and speed run through a radar trap. Oh and a skier/boarders cross course (though it's not timed, but is for 4no at once).
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@midgetbiker, Good to hear.
The PdS does have a few untimed boarder-X runs, but it would be great if they could take a lead from Cham and reinstate the timed slaloms and speed gun.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@WindOfChange, isnt there one on mont chery? I’m sure I passed one somewhere at the weekend.
In the old old days we went racing...
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I have a friend who was exactly the type described - he loved/loves speed, and he thought straightlining it was the only way to get your kicks while skiing. That was two years ago. Since then, I've worked with him on actually skiing - he now carves his turns, skis very nice rounded shapes and gets just way more of a buzz from skiing "properly" than he used to from just going as fast as humanly possible. Big turning point for him was when he nearly had a massive collision with another lady's front bottom in Crans Montana, I think that acted as a catalyst to change his behaviour for the better. So there is hope for all the saggy bottom, floppy jacket millennials out there! Problem of course is if all your skiing is crammed into 1 week a year, not likely to see much behaviour modification. Its why in general I'm still slightly reluctant to ski many of the bigger resorts around (Tignes, Verbier pistes particularly risky for this), I've seen and been involved in a few too many collisions for comfort.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have not been to Mt Chery for 3 weeks. There was the Les Gets Ski Club training course last time I went, but I did not see a parallel slalom open to the public, with timing gates.
I'll have a go on Saturday ( and lose to my kids) as I will be heading to Chery Nord if the forecast dump arrives.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| People who leave a couple of metres at the edge of the piste when they stop - you've left a door wide open, don't bitch when somoene goes through. Safer than dealing with the dicks down the scraped middle of the piste anyway. |
There is a reason why people do this. As a rule when skiing in a group and pulling over to the side of the piste for a break it's good practice for each skier in turn to stop below the rest of the group. A good way to do this is to leave a couple of metres gap between the very edge and yourself as you stop so that the next skier can swing in slowly behind, using that gap, and stop downhill of you so as to face the piste rather than away from the piste. Next skier does the same, and so on. That gap is not there for "dicks", as you so eloquently put it, to come barrelling through at high speed. I'm surprised this needs explaining on here.
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| moosepig wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| People who leave a couple of metres at the edge of the piste when they stop - you've left a door wide open, don't bitch when somoene goes through. Safer than dealing with the dicks down the scraped middle of the piste anyway. |
There is a reason why people do this. As a rule when skiing in a group and pulling over to the side of the piste for a break it's good practice for each skier in turn to stop below the rest of the group. A good way to do this is to leave a couple of metres gap between the very edge and yourself as you stop so that the next skier can swing in slowly behind, using that gap, and stop downhill of you so as to face the piste rather than away from the piste. Next skier does the same, and so on. That gap is not there for "dicks", as you so eloquently put it, to come barrelling through at high speed. I'm surprised this needs explaining on here. |
you say that but when we stop at the side we do leave a gap between us and the side for people to pass, especially when its a firmer piste and the better snow is at the side. for some reason that i've never really understood beginners seem to go down the middle and better people bomb down the edge. No harm leaving a gap for them to pass.
it does occur to me that as a snowboarder i can spend almost as much time looking back up the piste as down it. its fairly unusual for someone to pass me with enough speed that i'd find it startling, 99% of the time i see them coming long before they pass.
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You know it makes sense.
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@eddiethebus, it's funny isn't it how what we see as safe, considerate actions on the slopes can be interpreted as unforgivable sins by others 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@WindOfChange, The BMW ones aren't parallel. At least not what I've seen. Mostly filmed times GS linked to lift pass although there is one straightline on up Flégère.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| moosepig wrote: |
| @eddiethebus, it's funny isn't it how what we see as safe, considerate actions on the slopes can be interpreted as unforgivable sins by others |
it is. every time i go skiing/snowboarding with my girlfriend and its busy she gets freaked out believing that everyone is going to ski into her.
i've tried convincing her that no one wants to ski into her any more than she wants to ski into someone else but it falls on deaf ears lol
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just back from Champoluc. 2 guests in chalet fined by police for speeding. They were told they had the choice of fine or arrest.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@peter w, What had they done specifically? Was it where they skied fast or how fast in general?
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@peter w, Hopefully they deserved it, but I now have an image of two Italian cops relaxing with their skis on at the side of the piste drinking espresso before taking off after said speedsters with flashing blue lights on their helmets 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @WindOfChange, The BMW ones aren't parallel. At least not what I've seen. Mostly filmed times GS linked to lift pass although there is one straightline on up Flégère. |
No, there not parallel, but as they're timed they do offer the opportunity for those who are so inclined to race against their mates (without putting other piste users at risk). I thought the lack of such oppurtunity was what @WindOfChange was bemoaning, as it moves those 'races' on to the pistes.
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| Sack the Juggler wrote: |
| @peter w, Hopefully they deserved it, but I now have an image of two Italian cops relaxing with their skis on at the side of the piste drinking espresso before taking off after said speedsters with flashing blue lights on their helmets |
If these two Italian bobbies were the ones whose picture was floating around Facebook a few weeks ago then there will be crowds of young ladies speeding around the pistes in the hopes of being chased and arrested.
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TBH individual timed can better than parallel is some ways, as in parallel there's a tendency to think the other course is easier, and you could "lose" even if you cross the line first, as the timing (way back then) had 2 separate start gates. At leat if you do the same course you know its fair, but that being said, going side by side is way more fun, and you can pressure your adversary into mistakes.
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| moosepig wrote: |
| There is a reason why people [leave a couple of metres at the edge of the piste when they stop]. ... it's good practice for each skier in turn to stop below the rest of the group. A good way to do this is to leave a couple of metres gap between the very edge and yourself as you stop so that the next skier can swing in slowly behind, using that gap, and stop downhill of you so as to face the piste rather than away from the piste. ... gap is not there for "dicks", as you so eloquently put it, to come barrelling through at high speed. I'm surprised this needs explaining on here. |
I had not noticed particularly which way the people in the middle of the slope were facing, but I expect you're right about their rationale.
Either you leave a gap or you don't... but if you do then you certainly can't control who uses that gap or at what speed.
Off piste it's customary to stop the other way around - the first person to stop may well have a reason to stop precisely there, and you're better placed above them rather than below them. In beginner lessons we were taught the opposite, but most of us now know how to stop reliably.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| People who leave a couple of metres at the edge of the piste when they stop - you've left a door wide open, don't bitch when somoene goes through. Safer than dealing with the dicks down the scraped middle of the piste anyway. |
I’m afraid I’m someone else who disagrees with your logic. When you stop at the edge of a piste, even with a gap of a couple of metres it’s 100% clear that you have done so to allow everyone to pass down the middle of the piste. Why else would we all be taught to stop at the edge? If I am stopped c.2m from the edge of the piste nd another skier goes through the centre of that gap, then he’s passing at speed within 1m of me. I don’t think that can ever be classed as good practice.
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... got to also have something to do with the width of the piste surely?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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On an ASCL course about 4 years back the instructor, without ever explicitly saying anything, got the group into a sort of stop on piste routine suitable for groups. Leader swings in leaving a couple of meters from edge, rest fall in behind and below facing towards middle, then if not immediately skiing on, say for instruction or brief breather, all move back to absolute edge. Seems entirely sensible.
Having said that, if you are the sort of person that enjoys going through that 2m opening at speed, within less than 1 m of the stopped skier, and you don't have the empathy to realise how that might make someone feel, I'd suggest you might be damaged goods.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Two metres seems unrealistic to me, maybe four or five. In which case going round the back isn't such a big deal.
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@Penry, I am afraid they were from the dark side. Possibly racing each other, police had speed guns. No further details available. Plenty of young Scandinavians in the resort on very big rockered skis, skiing fast on piste but very much in control, not straight lining.
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You know it makes sense.
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@peter w, Ostafa to Crest (I presume that was the scene of the crime) is very much a beginner-intermediate zone and I am nit surprised if it was there and sense being enforced.
Were you with Ski2? Can’t think of any other chalet company!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| People who leave a couple of metres at the edge of the piste when they stop - you've left a door wide open, don't bitch when somoene goes through. Safer than dealing with the dicks down the scraped middle of the piste anyway. |
I’m afraid I’m someone else who disagrees with your logic. When you stop at the edge of a piste, even with a gap of a couple of metres it’s 100% clear that you have done so to allow everyone to pass down the middle of the piste. Why else would we all be taught to stop at the edge? If I am stopped c.2m from the edge of the piste nd another skier goes through the centre of that gap, then he’s passing at speed within 1m of me. I don’t think that can ever be classed as good practice. |
I completely disagree with you, actually. If you want to stop at the side of the piste and not have anyone ski around you, stop at the side of the piste not 2 metres away from it. If you want to leave room for your mates to turn around you and stop below, slide backwards after. Or do what eddiethebus does and leave plenty of room on both sides. You don't have the right to claim a 4m wide clear space around you at all times on piste no matter how clear you think your intentions as to how other people should use the space are.
2m is plenty of room to safely go round a stationary person, and while I wouldn't go hooning past I would ski behind you 99% of the time as the snow will be better there and I won't have the contend with carnage in the middle. And FWIW I'm pretty confident when I say I'm one of the safest and most considerate skiers on most hills.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| peter w wrote: |
| @Penry, I am afraid they were from the dark side. |
Lancashire? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Penry, cough cough
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Until that glorious day when piste-police make us safe, we must treat reckless skiers/boarders that are liable to descend upon we innocent few as if an ever-present severe avalanche risk - just as immune to our imprecations that they do not fall upon us when we are least expecting it.
Although one should not have to, one does have to keep an eye up-slope for those bar-stewards.
It's just one of those 'advanced' skills.
The other technique is of course to be a bigger bar-steward - to ski faster than the other bar-stewards above, and more skillfully than the silly billys below. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Most pleased to read about the Champoluc “incident”. I’m off there in March. I know a number of people with who have been wiped out by speedsters- examples being me ( one year in physio, almost put off skiing for life being a newbie at the time), my partner (concussion and kidney damage) and a good friend whose wife will no longer allow him to ski (broken shoulder and hip).
Even if the Italian pisteurs are zealous so what (except if they catch me zipping along  .)
All this 2m discussion seems tangential to the OP which didn’t stipulate edge of piste flatlining or bad piste etiquette in general.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Most pleased to read about the Champoluc “incident”. I’m off there in March. I know a number of people with who have been wiped out by speedsters- examples being me ( one year in physio, almost put off skiing for life very no a newbie at the time), my partner (concussion and kidney damage) and a good friend whose wife will no longer allow him to ski (broken shoulder and hip).
Even if the Italian pisteurs are zealous so what (except if they catch me zipping) along .
All this 2m discussions seems tangential to the OP which didn’t stipulate edge of piste flatlining it bad piste etiquette in general.
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Ski Tracks app and testosterone. Not a good mix.
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@suec, ....goodness suec, you brought it back to the original theme...excellent
Right....cp2000... these baggy-trousered rocker-boys playing chicken on the slope were not I think motivated by ski track data - they were captivated by powder fever and doing it all on piste not off piste where the technique and attitude belong - white powder fever. But thinking about it, it wasn’t white powder we smelled in the car park, more like happy tobacco. Quite a lot of it. Oh how times change.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Things are a lot better than they were.
Andorra 1988. Five sunburnt Brits - average weight, 16 stone. 60% water, 10% Sambucca. Fluorescent one piece with matching face paint. Average speed 80 Mph. Technique, Snowplough. Method of negotiating a meeting of another piste, gain enough speed to hit a bump and get enough air to fly over fellow skiers. Soundtrack, Aggadoo or 'Ere we go...'
This actually happened to me and I watched in awe as they soared over me, landed on jelly legs, before composing themselves back into their rather uncomposed 80 mph Snowplough and went on their way to Fat Willy's snow bar.
The skis of the day had Turbo written on them. The EuroKev skier of the day aspired to the life he hadn't achieved (The car left at Luton Airport was only an XR3, not the RS Turbo. Although the leader of the pack may have had the XR3i as i stood for important)
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@under a new name, I believe that was the site. With Ski Total in the Breithorn. Chalet Hotel, recommended.
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