 Poster: A snowHead
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ssh, Too harsh?? Ok, let them learn the hard way...take em down a mogul run 
Then whisper, "How's yer back-seat skiing feeling now, mate?"
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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LOL
OK, the topic has been raised let's talk moguls.
The thing about moguls that bothers me is that they seem prone to forming on the very runs I'm now confident on - red runs! I really have to keep an eye on the notices to find those that may have been left ungroomed overnight and might therefore be significantly bumped by the second day. VT has two like that Portette and Rhodos, luckily they seem to leave them ungroomed on alternate days, you can get down either from similar lifts and you can see both from the main piste prior to the need to make a decision. However, it does still bother me that one day I might go up with only one red option from the top of somewhere and then find it severely bumped up.
I know all the theory of skiing the bumps, have had a very gentle introduction to them during a lesson and can usually get down yucky slushy one day old mounds OK (perhaps with not much style, but usually in fair control), but I don't think I could ski a proper set of bumps if I was faced with them and that still concerns me. Probably more so than the prospect of skiing a non-bumped black, which I now expect I could get down if I had no other option even if I had to side slip parts of it. I guess I should take a specific lesson to cope with them, but I haven't done so as I get concerned that a certain competence in skiing would be assumed for someone requesting a bumps lesson that I don't have and I could then find myself over-faced.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Megamum, You just need more lessons or just laps on a shallow slope, to understand the techniques. That's the easy part.
The hard part is getting the timing, balance and dynamism required and an instructor can't give you those.
IMHO if you ever want to progress your overall skiing beyond intermidiot, moguls is the marker by which to measure.
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ALQ, then perhaps they are worth chasing in near future. I generally have excellent timing in other things (dance for example) and have fair balance from horse riding - I've rode horses since I was 4 years old and dancing (when I was younger), I can also skate a bit so my balance must be the right side of bad. It's the dynamism that I might lack.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Megamum, It seems you're not far off. You need to be dynamic on the mogul field for sure and it will certainly test your balance, timing, agility n anticipation...so you should be able to ski almost anything after that.
After you've set your piste turns (and can mix them up), moguls skiing is definitely a good target to have....so start getting in shape now ... with 100 squats a day!! 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Megamum, I learned lots on my mougls clinic with Claude last year, and it feeds back into all my skiing too 
Also looked at this - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/snowandski/8199069/Skiing-moguls-How-to-ski-bigger-bumps.html
Like ALQ says, you need to be dynamic, but I also find that apart from being properly weighted on the skis (deffo no back seat here) I need to have my observation all in place too- not looking at the turn in front of my tips but looking down the hill and using peripheral vision to see the shape of the bumps immediately in front (and 'using the force' to feel and absorb.
Also what works, for me, is skiing 'my' line. I do not plan to turn on or around etc a bump, but just ski as if there were no bumps, and absorb/extend at 'the force' dictates.
As soon as you think 'eek, thats a nasty bump, I'll traverse a bit more and turn later...' your rhythm is lost, and all is lost....
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As soon as you think 'eek, thats a nasty bump, I'll traverse a bit more and turn later...' your rhythm is lost, and all is lost....
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ain't that the truth!
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Megamum, when I teach guests in the OHG program to ski moguls, I focus on a couple of specific things:
- The skill that allows you to slip down the slope, choosing to slip in whatever direction you'd like.
- The choice of a line down the moguls that has you skiing primarily on the very flat parts of the bump (the top of the next bump and the edge of the opposite bump as you turn). This is what I call "skiing the green line" and you'll find it in my book explained more broadly.
If you choose this line (and slip most of the turn; lose altitude throughout your turn), I expect you'll find skiing moguls no more challenging than skiing slightly steeper groomed.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ssh, I'll bear that in mind the next time I'm faced with some 
I'm off to Chill Factore, Manchester on Saturday morning to do some practise by myself. More 'tap, stand' needed, I need to experiment with the concept of flattening the toe of the inside ski first, and also seeing if I can progress more like a snake down the slope (make the corridor narrower) rather than finishing off the C turns too much between each one.
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Megamum, I don't know what 'tap, stand' is but 'flatten' is great and will make a big difference for you enjoy yourself on Saturday, I think it will be busy with kids groups though still.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Ah, 'tap, stand' is my magical rob@rar mantra. It means 'tap' the pole for timing (and I think it slows me down and then I consciously fit everything in), then really 'stand' on the outside ski as early in the turn as possible, I follow that with a turn where I steer the foot around the turn. When I get it right it actually feels as close to 'proper' skiing as I think I yet do. When I really get right it is then followed by 'flick' onto the other set of edges, and an upper body that is inclined away from the mountain exactly as I have had it explained.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Megamum, I can't picture it, I might have to come and watch 
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looked more fluid with the turns in the second vid Megamum looks like rob@rar's lessons are having an effect.
Do you buy the weekly unlimited pass for the Chillfactore ?
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You know it makes sense.
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sarah, LOL 0930-1130 Saturday, myself and Minimum_1 if you feel the urge!!
speed098, CFe is a regular-ish visit over the last 9 mths or so, but isn't where I live. I buy the passes for the session I want, but they often send through special offers that on a large number of occasions have coincided with my visits - I am on a special offer day this weekend that I booked some weeks ago.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Just thought as a 2hr pass is around £30 but the weekly pass is around £35-40 and you can book two hours at a time but at the end of the two hours go to desk and book another two if the slope is not packed.
Can't really afford to go this Saturday as off to France this time next week but when I come back I will be looking at a weekly pass roughly once a month plus regular visits to Rossendale if the £5 an hour offer is still going. As I am new on here would be nice to start putting faces to names 
Maybe something that would be worth looking into would be indoor and dryslope meetups for members here as reading the what level thread seems a lot are around the 6-8 and I am sure there will be a few level10 and above, instructors and ex instructors who would be happy to give advice.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Megamum, if I can escape I will try to come
speed098, just wait for the summer offers to come out, pretty sure last year they had some very cheap prices. After April they start the offers. I think there have been meet ups, certainly at Hemel. Look on the snowEvents sub forum to see. One thing though about the giving advice is that it can be tricky as the slopes won't allow instruction except from their own instructors.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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speed098, SH snowdome meet-ups are not unheard of, but folks just have to be a bit careful about ostensibly teaching (rather than just a friendly tip) during such things unless it is officially sanctioned by the slope. The offer for this weekend was £11.99 per hour + £5 for each extra hour, that's fairly cheap.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I see I have gone 'snap' with sarah,  Great minds and all that! Happy to see you sarah if you find time. We go suitably SH stickered!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hi Sarah thanks I new re the instruction as I am an ex instructor myself and need to put the kids in for lessons till they can turn and control their speed themselves, after that will teach them myself unless we join Pendle ski club. Otherwise probably would not be able to afford to go away next year after paying out for lessons, as I want them at a good intemediate level before we go.
Might look at becoming an instructor again but priority is getting kids skiing.
Last time I was at HH was on a course with Alan Hughes and it was a dryslope ( is that showing my age  )
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Megamum
At that price I could have gone for an hour, just checked prices though and £26 for one hour or £31 for 2hrs
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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speed098, sign up to get their emails, the offers come in on those and you can see which ones might work for you. The booking window for that cheap price was just 3 days some weeks ago so you have to be quick, but I often spot an offer for when I know I will be up there.
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Megamum,
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It means 'tap' the pole for timing (and I think it slows me down and then I consciously fit everything in), then really 'stand' on the outside ski as early in the turn as possible, I follow that with a turn where I steer the foot around the turn. When I get it right it actually feels as close to 'proper' skiing as I think I yet do. When I really get right it is then followed by 'flick' onto the other set of edges, and an upper body that is inclined away from the mountain exactly as I have had it explained.
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If I had to think that many things each time I turned, my brain would explode, let alone my feet.
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Thanks Megamum
Have signed up now may help especially for the kids
When we come back I will be joining anyway as buying a weekly pass once every month it will work out slightly cheaper doing so.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Pedantica, LOL it is probably because I am still at the 'consciously competent' stage. If I can get it right lots of times it should move into something I don't have to think about i.e. the unconsciously competent bit of learning. Or at least that is what all theory books say about the learning process. I have my fingers crossed that it applies to skiing too .
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speed098, they will have offers on kids lessons too, also school holidays learn to ski courses. Keep an eye out for their more affordable prices. But isn't the Ski Ross kids club really good and cheap?
Megamum, I'm sure I would find you
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Ski Ross kids club is ok but at 12 and 16 one is too old and other does not want to go to a "Kids Club" typical 12 going on 22 girl
I used to work at Ross way way back.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Megamum,
speed098, ah yes, too old for the kids clubs then.
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You know it makes sense.
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Many thanks to sarah, for making the effort to come and say "Hi" today, it made a nice change to see someone at CFe that we could chat to. The snow was quite reasonable, the slope not too busy and I think we all had a productive session. Mind you I thought I would get on well with the old Wave Magics, but they weren't anywhere near the weapons my other skis are. They were OK on the really smooth snow, but any degree of depth whatsoever and they were deflected all over the place. I don't think I'll use them again. I didn't think I would notice a difference, but I did!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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sarah,
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she is a far better skier than she would have us all believe
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Well, aiming to get to that point in the future anyway 
Mind you I think something has now clicked again in my brain - the first big revelation came during the first EoSB 5 years ago when I discovered I could ride a chair lift and I could get around the moutain, last year I got close with the slow snowploughs, but now I've proved to myself that I can take what I have learned indoors to the big moutain, experiment and still come back indoors and make it work again I am delighted. Now, you all know how nervous I've been of the whole process, how about this: I've reached the stage where I can't wait for the next snowdome trip (trips to mountains are a bit pricey!) to try and ski better than the last time? Yes, that is the reason, not necessarily that I want to visit because I enjoy it, but because I want to ski better!! OK, it's not an ideal reason (enjoyment would be the ideal reason), but at least I now want to go again each time!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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So I had a couple of hours at CFe yesterday. I was able to take along a video buddy, but it is only long distance from the balcony. I am slightly embarrassed to say that these scarce few runs were towards the end of the two hours when I finally started to chill out again - it shouldn't have taken that long  I am also not overly happy with these, I think the shoulders seem too involved with the overall movement. It was an attempt to start doing the sort of turns in Kitenski's video, but I think I am many, many hours solid and regular practice from even getting close.
Re: The video - I am not the first one down, I come out of the top LH corner - black trousers, red jacket, white helmet, and followed on most cases down the slope by the far too laid back 'blue peril' that is Minimum_2
https://vimeo.com/93067793
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Megamum, I'm in that video too at one point, I forgot to watch out for you on Saturday.
What is the idea behind holding your poles in the middle ?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Megamum wrote: |
..... I am slightly embarrassed to say that these scarce few runs were towards the end of the two hours when I finally started to chill out again - it shouldn't have taken that long |
It takes me atleast that long, if not 1/2 a day to warm up.
| Megamum wrote: |
I am also not overly happy with these, I think the shoulders seem too involved with the overall movement. |
I thought you had rather good rotary separation especially after the 1st run, I think you may have been doing a drill with the poles held horizontally to the sides?
| Megamum wrote: |
| It was an attempt to start doing the sort of turns in Kitenski's video, but I think I am many, many hours solid and regular practice from even getting close. |
Remember Greg is a Level 2 BASI Instructor ! I wish I could do turns like him too.
I will say this..............If you don't mind some amateur input, take it with a pinch of the proverbial....
I've been told that I rush my turns!....that I rush the initiation of my turns....that I rush the first phase of my turns .........I didn't quite get it because if I waited then nothing would happen & I would pick up speed alarmingly!
Well I see you doing the same.......... What it means is that we are not allowing time for our balance to be established properly on the new outside ski at the very start of the turn. It comes down to the "Tap-Stand-Turn" technique Rob described.
Allow more time to get balanced on the new ski and the slight stem will disappear as well as gaining early edge control all the way through the turn........ Allow the ski to do it's work before rotating it. I hope this makes sense.
You displayed some nice flow n rhythm at the end of the vid.
All in all impressive progress. Thanks for sharing
Do they do a monthly pass at CFe
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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FzC
Yes CFe do a monthly pass and a weekly pass. I purchased the weekly pass at £35 the monthly is £100.
http://www.chillfactore.com/offers/unlimited-lift-pass
If anyone is down there on Monday I will be there from 10:30am for at least a couple of hours plus again on Wednesday from 12:30 for 2hrs,will be nice to meet more Snowheads
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franzClammer, Thank you, but I think 'Impressive', is probably a little OTT . However, yes, I think I probably do need to devote some time to tap, stand which I haven't done for a while. I was trying to see if I could replicate what I had felt on the mountain and forgot to do it, as you note it would probably have slowed the turn down. I was trying to eliminate the traverse and face more down the hill, to some extent I might have started to achieve the latter.
Regular=ish trips to CFe will probably cease for the summer now the footy season has finished otherwise a monthly pass would have been a good idea.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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your short turns are alot better than the last vid I saw
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+1
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exaggerate the forward press on the shin
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I find that thinking about ankle flex is preferable.
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FAQ
