nosnowski, I think slikedges may have summed up my view. The Rollercarvers may work as a training tool (or not), but I really can't see them catching on. This is partly because of the significant problems in finding suitable places to use them, but also because they seem to lack the fun aspect. I suspect this is because they are inherently much harder to use.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
slikedges wrote:
nosnowski, if I had a stretch of distance and surface like in your "longer prototype of rollercarvers" video, I'd be out on in-line skates everyday. On in-lines you can get dynamic movements, bigger angles (to the point of booting out) and higher speeds resulting in fairly deep gs-like carves and slalom-like turns, certainly when compared to what you've so far shown us the rollercarvers are capable of achieving.
I understand that you are trying to approximate skiing more closely with wheels that presumably steer in with ankle roll but on the strength of anything you've shown here so far, I really can't see the combination of rollercarver/road (or worse still another surface) being an attractive summer activity, in terms of approximating skiing enough to be any fun. I can see that on the road shown in that video it could have a supporting role in training skills like outside ski dominance, inside ski steering, parallel shins, ankle control, movement, balance, timing but it'd be boring. Racers should take the opportunity to practice those sorts of skills on any smooth and very shallow slope, like a cat track (flat path between pistes that you often have to pole on), but usually don't bother and just ski straight along whilst leaning on their poles.
Standard in-line skates on that stretch of road on the other hand could be quite fun whilst approximating the skiing feel enough already to also train those skills reasonably well. Maybe you could show us a video that shows more dynamic movements, bigger edge angles and higher speed?
Slikedges,
Thanks for your feedback. I also have a shorter 60cm version of rollercarvers with in-line skate boots and PU wheels. They roll much faster even on a low gradient slope like a car park near my place http://youtube.com/v/uSZ2JqwK-4U. The wheels though are 3" in diameter and they are too small for the steeper and rougher road (it's too rough even for a longboard) that I occasionally ride on with the longer version and pneumatic 6" wheels. I have been planning to build another 60cm model with larger PU wheels and a bit better in-line ski boot but all the pro skiers that I spoke too say that ski boots and pneumatic wheels are the way to go. Mitch Smith who is a K2 freeride demo skier was the only one who tried it so far and he had a lot of in-line skate experience and insists that from the learning and even training point of view rollercarvers are better than in-lines and I agree (I am no expert though). Two days ago I shipped a pair to a former high profile racer from the US ski team who will try them next week and give me his feedback. Then they will go to another well known former Olympian living in the US and a few ski coaches.
The purpose of this device is to be mainly off road riding which dictates its design characteristics such as use of pneumatic wheels (not good for speed) and more fore/aft support. However, based on the feedback from this discussion I should probably also work on my hard surface shorter version with PU wheels and get a pro skier to demo it. It still has quite a lot of fore/aft support, carves very sharp turns and also works quite well as an XC trainer. Anyway, whichever way it goes it has been a fun project for me.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
xx
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Mon 25-04-16 22:06; edited 1 time in total
nosnowski,
Whilst applauding your ingenuity, I'm kind of with the what's it actually for crowd.
Why would a ski team want them? - Is there an increased risk of injury and anyway they can just swap hemispheres or head to the glacier?
Why would anyone else who lives in a hilly area want them? Whilst I could probably still go skiing on real snow of sorts this weekend, I'd rather accept it is nearly summer and head out on my bike. Since I'm not even remotely close to being a pro skier, for me spending the summer on my bike is a much better training aid for skiing since it stops me hacking my lungs up come November, and gives me a good chance of serious maiming so can get the buzz from that.
And yes if you persist, you should work on the brakes thing, I'm guessing a hockey stop on these would be tricky? Perhaps a small hand operated disc brake? A few people round my way think longboarding (basically a big skateboard) down the mountain roads is a good idea, unfortunately on what seems to be a fairly regular basis it doesn't end well.
nosnowski, that's better but imv standard in-lines would be a lot more fun and compromise only a little on training value. Whatever you aim for, whether hard surface or off road, no point producing anything that doesn't allow dynamic movements and bigger angles as it won't be much fun and won't appeal
Slikedges,
dynamic movements are a function of speed and turning radius. More precisely, at lower speed you need a shorter radius to turn dynamically and at higher speed you can move dynamically with a longer radius. It is simply the consequence of the formula for the centrifugal force (mv^2/R) so at the end of the day it is primarily a problem of optimising the length of the device and the type of wheels used. Since it is all about interaction between human body and the device it can only be done in an empirical way which I and a bunch of other people are more than happy to do. I find the shorter device definitely much more fun than in-lines especially on slightly sloping terrain (BTW, I sacrificed my in-lines to make the shorter rollercarvers and used the boots and wheels). The longer version needs steeper terrain and higher speed which no doubts is quite intimidating for many people. Mitch Smith who is the skier in the videos above and also has a lot of in-line skating, skateboarding and mountain biking experience is quite adamant that rollercarving is by far the closest to skiing. I have to admit that when I first spoke to him about the device he was quite skeptical but when he tried it he was positively surprised which can be seen from the grin on his face in the first video capturing his long run.
I'll soon be getting feedback from two former Olympic and World Cup skiers who should start testing the gear this week. This will be the real test of applicability as a training device.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
nosnowski, I'm sorry flower, there's nowt to want about your kit. It's never going to of any real use for competitive training and as a recreational tool it's even more unsafe than what's already being restricted in use. Add to that you need to buy additional equipment ... boots, poles, protection ... to use them for fun your market niche is self-limiting. What you have is a highly specialised rollerskate that in every video you post demonstrates that it requires a specific skills set to use that is different to that used in controlling an edge on snow. There are similarities but it's never going to be any better that what is already easily and cheaply available.
Interesting concept. You may be on to something. You need some high performance shots on youtube.
I make skates called Terrablades. I have the terrablades turning very nicely due to rockering, at the expense of height. But I made them for offroad , and kite skating, and powered skating.
RE: grass ski posts, they work great. There are many resorts with grass skiing in the summer in corners of the world, its a shame that grass skiing is not more popular. It does hurt to fall going 40mph on a dry slope. I crossed a pair of grass skis in Japan doing about 30mph, never feel so hard. Seems most sports need a large large base of beginners to support it.
Last edited by After all it is free on Sun 7-07-13 17:43; edited 1 time in total
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Grief can we please take this thread to the vet and put it out of its misery.
When there's snow on the ground. ski as much as you can.
When there isn't, either go somewhere where there is, or do what all good athletes do, which is cross-train.
My small one is out on the big trampoline doing rotations.
Other top skiers I know are out on their road or mountain bikes to build their quads and refining balance, or playing tennis and table tennis to hone their reactions. All are having fun in the sun and busy building their skills and power.
This is all a hell of a lot more fun than mucking about with quasi-skis.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Valais2 I don't agree.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Sun 7-07-13 17:26; edited 2 times in total
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
terrablader, no surprise there, since you have a product to sell. which indeed looks well engineered and well designed .... but I simply go on what the top teams do in the 'off season' and what the top coaches recommend - which is skiing on the glaciers when you can and cross-training when you can't ... and the only axe to grind which I have is the desire to (i) get better (ii) have fun.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
opps I should not edit my posts. Since this is a very active thread. Thanks for kind words about my skates. I can't really speak for training for professional level skiing. But I can say that for a few years I downhill skated and when I went skiing it was like I had not missed a day on the slopes. But that being said I am a bit off topic here being I just want to have fun and get a rush doing something that is similar to what I did for years without having to drive and pay allot to do it.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
holly hell nosnowski you posted your product on tons of ski forums. showing some dedication there. I will have to read them all now...
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Looks like these terror-blades have the same issue as the roller ones - tentative wiggles with 5 degree edge angles.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Narc, true, the higher you go the less steep the triangle, its hard to get allot of angulation in my skates as a result of the height, in Terrablades case they are 8"high. The kite skating seems to be the best application for them since you are leaning way over anyways with the kite, this allows a completely different angle.
Even with inline skate though I remember having to stay on top of them pretty much too for fear they will slide out. So maybe its just the difference of having a nice long razor sharp metal edge digging into the snow versus a wheel of that need to maintain only small contact under each wheel? Grass skis are the closest yet I have found to skiing.
Hey but does anyone really carve now on the parabolic short skis now anyway - ok ill duck now.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
terrablader wrote:
Hey but does anyone really carve now on the parabolic short skis now anyway - ok ill duck now.
I think that is the one thing these might help teach only because if you heel push on these you will come to a messy end
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
terrablader, ...this thread is like bl***dy Rasputin.
I've heard some arrant nonsense on-line but this is pretty up there:
'....but does anyone really carve now on the parabolic short skis now anyway Smile- ok ill duck now...'.
yes they do. Now stop.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Why not move on if the thread is boring you. I know the high sidecut skiis of today carve. Was meant in humor, in contrast to the work it took once upon a time to turn a pair of 210s without tail-sliding.
Street Skiing extreme in San Francisco from dubist mich
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
- ok ill duck now.