 Poster: A snowHead
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@LaForet, yes, fair point. I read a lot of comments like that as I was deciding whether to get an EV and you are right to say there are lots of potential issues where people can become unstuck. It took plenty of planning to get things lined up for my install including four separate teams of electrical contractors (DNO for the cutout fuse; local sparky to upgrade the tails to my old meter; Octopus to replace old electric and gas meters with SMETS2 smart meters; and finally another Octopus team to install the Ohme charger), all of which needed to do their work in the correct sequence. Then I’d read comments from people on the EV forums saying “my new EV arrives tomorrow, what do I need to do so I can charge at home…?” 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@rob@rar, simples, no? 
I am based in Belgium and see the main switch rated at 60/63A, will shoot a couple of inquiries then. Is there a material difference of getting 7, 11 or 22 kW charger for home? 10-12 hours of charging even at 7 should be plenty for most use-cases, no?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| mooney058 wrote: |
@rob@rar, simples, no?
I am based in Belgium and see the main switch rated at 60/63A, will shoot a couple of inquiries then. Is there a material difference of getting 7, 11 or 22 kW charger for home? 10-12 hours of charging even at 7 should be plenty for most use-cases, no? |
Not sure about how things operate in Belgium* but I was told that EV charger installers would require at least an 80A cutout fuse, preferably 100A before they installed the (typically 7kW) charger on a single phase domestic supply. Mine was 60A (which I think used to be the standard for domestic installs here) so needed to be upgraded by my local Distribution Network Operator, which they do free of charge.
* I visited Belgium for the first time a couple of weeks ago and was impressed by the high speed charging network for EVs. Much like France it seems to be a bit of a step up from the UK.
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@rob@rar, thanks! give me a shout next time if you have some time for a pint/bite. I will tell you of how you made a mistake with Tesla and in return you can point I can’t ski properly 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@mooney058,
We visited Pairi Daiza while in Belgium. Quite an amazing zoo.
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@rob@rar, Note in many countries the standard domestic installation is three phase unlike the UK. The "standard" is likely to be 32A three phase even 63A three phase is not unusual so that would make life easier. Here is Germany any supply over 16A is a three phase one (eg ovens).
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@munich_irish, yes, I understand that 3-phase is much more common in some countries than it is here in the UK. Does this mean that 22kW domestic chargers are typical, or is 7kW deemed good enough? For my usage (slightly higher than average mileage, but not significantly so) my 7kW charger has always been fast enough to deliver overnight the state of charge that I want my car to have. A 22kW charger would be a bit overkill.
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@rob@rar, installing a 22Kw unit in a domestic situation is going to be a struggle. 22Kw equates to 100Amps (bit less in UK). Few domestic installations will have that sort of power available. When I had a plug in hybrid we simply used a standard 16 Amp socket. My business partner has two full electric vehicles. The one they use most of the time they charge on a 22Kw public unit in the street outside (takes about 3 hours from 40% to full) the other one which doesnt get used so much they do an overnight charge from a 16 Amp socket. Here in the office we have a number of electric vehicles both plug in & full. Unfortunately we dont have a spare 100 Amps available to be able install a proper charger (struggle to supply all the existing machinery and will cost a lot to upgrade supply to the building) so folk have to do top ups from a 16 Amp socket.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| mooney058 wrote: |
@rob@rar, simples, no?
I am based in Belgium and see the main switch rated at 60/63A, will shoot a couple of inquiries then. Is there a material difference of getting 7, 11 or 22 kW charger for home? 10-12 hours of charging even at 7 should be plenty for most use-cases, no? |
Bear in mind that many (most?) current EVs won't charge at more than 11kW AC anyway, so a 22 kW AC charger is unnecessary. That may change in future of course. 22 kW will need larger cables as well, which may well mean more expense (it certainly would for us, as we'd need to replace a 2.5 mm2 buried cable with a 6 mm2 one - which is a lot more expensive than the basic installation cost).
And if you're charging at home, most of the time you don't need more speed anyway, assuming you can charge overnight. Again, if you have two cars to charge, and need full charges multiple times a week, extra speed might help.
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@mgrolf, thanks. With kids out at unis we scaled back to one car, currently ICE. This will be replaced either this or next year with an EV. I can install 7-11kW at home for overnigt charging and was thinking along the same lines that even the 7kW one should be emough (7kW x 10 or 12 hours is plenty) unless I was missing some obvious constraint or situations. Apparently not and even 7 should be enough for the foreseeable future
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@mooney058, I'm pretty sure that your average domestic dwelling is limited to 7.2kW max but that should be ample for 99% of the population. Assuming that you have an overnight break of 8 hours between drives then you could put 56kWh of electrical energy in your car (7Kw x 8 hours). Really you should be sticking to not charging it above 80% or letting it drop below 20% for everyday driving which means that you should only routinely be charging 60% of the battery capacity overnight. 56kWh/0.6 = 93.3 kWH. Virtually no electric cars offer a battery as large as that. The Tesla model 3 long range for example offers a 75 kWh battery and the BMW i5 touring 84 kwh.
Most electric cars will do between 3 and 4 miles per kWh so that theoretical 56 kWh would be between 168 miles and 224 miles. If you wanted to travel further than that in a single then day then you would use motorway fast chargers to top up
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@rambotion, thanks, this aligns in how I saw it too.
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Be aware that there are some tariff/charge point combinations that let you charge at the cheap rate in the day, as well as the fixed night time window. I’m on Intelligent Octopus Go (IOG) with an Ohme Home Pro and can get a day time charge at the cheap 7p/kWh rate as well as during the fixed 23:30-05:30. An upside is that all my electricity is at the cheap rate, so the dishwasher and washing machine are usually set to run during these times too.
Re higher throughput than 7kW with the charge point: the 'intelligent' integrations between EV, charge point and supplier (again, like my Ohme/Octopus) will often adjust the charge level in response to grid loads. So if there's enough time, your EV may be charged at less than 7kW anyway. Given the fixed night window on IOG is 6 hours, this is often the case with many of my night time charge sessions. So there may be little point in uprating your supply to provide a higher notional rate of charge, unless you're going to regularly need the maximum rate.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Thu 29-08-24 11:29; edited 4 times in total
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You know it makes sense.
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@mooney058, yep, you'll be fine. I'm only getting 5 kW at the moment (load balancer not working properly) but that's still fine. Charges my Skoda Enyaq overnight even if I need to go from empty to 100% (77 kWh battery).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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good tips on the smart meter. We haven't been in a hurry to change ours as we have a very old electromechanical one which spins backwards on a sunny day when our PV is kicking our the Watts 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Having taken the plunge and bought a PHEV I notice Tesla chargers in France charge any car, but how does one pay? Specifically the nearest chargers to La Plagne are on the N90 at Aime near Weldom and Decathlon which are all Tesla but all makes seem to use them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@boredsurfin, install the Tesla app on your phone and create a Tesla account. Add a payment card to your Tesla account. The app will tell you which Supercharger stations are open to all brands and which are reserved for Teslas only. When you want to use a Tesla charger simply plug in to your car and initiate the charge via the app, and you will be billed automatically via your Tesla account.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
| Specifically the nearest chargers to La Plagne are on the N90 at Aime near Weldom and Decathlon which are all Tesla but all makes seem to use them. |
Are you sure there are Tesla Superchargers at Aime? I thought the nearest Tesla Supercharger station was just the other side of Moutiers.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| boredsurfin wrote: |
| Specifically the nearest chargers to La Plagne are on the N90 at Aime near Weldom and Decathlon which are all Tesla but all makes seem to use them. |
Are you sure there are Tesla Superchargers at Aime? I thought the nearest Tesla Supercharger station was just the other side of Moutiers. |
Brilliant! Just checked the app and a new Supercharger has been installed since last winter at Aime. Excellent news as it adds another option for the Tarentaise resorts, and it's at least a third cheaper than the ShellRecharge station I use in Les Arcs.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Tesla chargers in France charge any car, but how does one pay?
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If you have a ChargeMap RFID card, I think you should be able to link that to your Tesla account. You'd still need the Tesla app though
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Hi all, I think I’m allowed to post here. Got a MY 2wd LR, and just drove it from Lisbon to Maastricht and back (back through Lyon, does that count as “to the Alps”?), installing daughter in uni. 6200km, nearly all fuelled by superchargers as found in the car navi system, total cost €374. Despite everyone being on the move in August, NEVER had to wait for a charge, though one or two were close. A very relaxing long trip.
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@Orange200, that's journey's more like 4600km tops. How often did you have to stop and what was the average stopping time?
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@Orange200, you avoided the punch ups and knife fights over chargers at French autoroute service stations then?
I was also surprised to see that at 12 euros per 100km for the average electric it is more expensive than my old petrol wagen on the autoroutes.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@davidof, In the UK, (Tesla) superchargers are relatively cheap - about 40p/kWh. Others are 60-80p.
I think 6200km at a cost of E374 is 6 euros/100km anyway.
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@MorningGory, yes Tesla seems to be the way to go, a higher class of driver so less risk of charge rage and you get a good range from a cheap home charge.
All the charge rage stories I read about over the summer may all be made up by the press, of course.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@davidof, Superchargers are being opened up to other makes. I can use some in my Polestar. Range is also much better across the board now too.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| MorningGory wrote: |
| @davidof, In the UK, (Tesla) superchargers are relatively cheap - about 40p/kWh. Others are 60-80p. |
I paid 28p at the Scotch Corner supercharger a couple of days ago. Would have been 22p in the early hours. It was worth a 20 minute detour to drive past the closer Ionity high speed charger, which would have cost 78p.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| @Orange200, that's journey's more like 4600km tops. How often did you have to stop and what was the average stopping time? |
We went from place of interest to place of interest, we aren’t robots and it was our summer holiday. Salamanca, Pamplona, Tours (da Vinci museum), Versailles palace, friend in N Paris, friends in Rotterdam, Dijon, Carcassonne castle, Barcelona, Valencia Oceanarium. Neither of us are autopilots, I could usually do 1.5h and my wife 30-45 mins. We planned no more than 6h/day driving, though Pamplona-Tours was tough due to holiday traffic and motorway closures in 33C heat. Average stopping time for charging was perhaps 30-40min to get from perhaps 10% charge to 80-85%. Sometimes “high usage” stations wouldn’t let us charge over 80%; in others I’d extend the charge to 85% as we hadn’t finished our coffee yet. Several chargers in very nice hotels, a few in dull Leclerc hypers (sometimes closed), the funniest was a big shopping centre car park where Elon directed us to a nearby sex toys shop - say what you will about Tesla drivers! Yes some SCs open to non-Tesla, I wonder how the directions will work where they now say “8 stalls available, 3 cars en route”.
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You know it makes sense.
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The car came back late from being repaired (2 weeks old and got T boned; about 6 weeks to repair needing a new front shock and wishbone mainly), so we missed some other stops on the wish list, like Sad Hill cemetery, paragliding and hiking in Pyrenees, Garrotxa volcanic range, and La Tomatina at Buñol. I’m told these are first world problems!
We are now adapting to life a a three not a four, while the eldest adapts to life as a one.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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How do Tesla owners feel about 'their' chargers being/becoming available to other brands as well?
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Poster: A snowHead
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I don’t know, do you think I should start carrying a knife?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| How do Tesla owners feel about 'their' chargers being/becoming available to other brands as well? |
I don’t have any feelings for or against the decision, not least because it’s never affected me. I’ve only had to queue twice for an available stall at a supercharger, for about 10 minutes on each occasion and both at Tesla-only superchargers. Every other time I’ve simply reversed in to the stall and plugged it. The charging experience in France is even better than in the UK if my experience of driving to the Alps is typical. Many of their supercharger stations have twice the number of charging stalls compared to the UK, only a small fraction of which were in use when I arrived to refuel.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| How do Tesla owners feel about 'their' chargers being/becoming available to other brands as well? |
The only issue I have is that not every car has a charging port in the same place and the Tesla Superchargers only have short cables. This means that non Tesla cars sometimes end up using the "wrong" charger for the space they are parked in i.e. parked in the space for 1B but charging off 2A, effectively taking up two chargers.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@rob@rar, Agree on prices of Ionity versus Tesla - but as an Octopus customer, we ( and therefore you?) get the discounted rates on the Ionity and other networks when using the Electroverse RFID card. So not quite the shock of the 78p!
Planning a trip to Nantwich next weekend from Maidenhead - I've got more anxiety about charging than when I go the Alps...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Arctic Roll, I’m looking at the Electroverse app now, and it’s quoting 78p for Ionity and for InstaVolt which was the other high speed charger nearby.
I’ve learned to take the 8% discount via Electroverse with a pinch of salt. The Shell ReCharge charger near me in Arc 1800 is cheaper via my Shell account than it is via my Electroverse account, despite Electroverse claiming they offer the discount on Shell charging. Just one of the pitfalls when you step outside the Tesla ecosystem.
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A lot of talk above about 22 kW charging. Just a note, the absolute vast majority of all EVs can’t charge at this rate on AC supply. Simply put it’s not needed, and not worth the impact to the supply it causes. With a 7 kW supply a large batteried car can be charged full to empty overnight, many higher end EVs have 11 kW AC capability if needed - but 22 kW is very rare because it’s pointless. Even the most basic of EVs these days can do 150 kW on a DC charger - hence no need for “fast” AC.
Caution basically to anybody thinking they need a 22 kW home charger - you probably don’t. We have a 2 x 22 kW pedestal at home and a 7 kW wall mounted unit and whichever car we put on whichever charger, it’s ready in the morning.
Difference is one charger was £6k to install and the other was £250.
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| userscott wrote: |
| Even the most basic of EVs these days can do 150 kW on a DC charger - hence no need for “fast” AC. |
Well, except the difference between 7p/kWh and 70p/kWh!!
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| MorningGory wrote: |
| userscott wrote: |
| Even the most basic of EVs these days can do 150 kW on a DC charger - hence no need for “fast” AC. |
Well, except the difference between 7p/kWh and 70p/kWh!! |
Both cars would still have the same ability to charge at 7p per unit.. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Not on a public DC charger
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| MorningGory wrote: |
| Not on a public DC charger |
Of course not, but that wasn’t my point.
There is no need for “fast” AC because only a literal handful of cars support it, because it’s not actually fast and because even the slowest of Type 2 chargers are fast enough for almost all use cases by design - IE overnight.
For anything else there’s DC, which again all BEVs have.
PS - Tesla Superchargers are down to 25p a unit again in places! Otherwise peak is around 45p.
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FAQ
