Tignes and The Espace Killy (Or Tignes/Val D'Isere) 2021/2022. (Useful links updated on Page 1)

A snowHead

My personal view, @sbooker, is that with the current conditions the best use of time is to knuckle down and work on technique. Piste and between the pistes are excellent places to do that, being consistent so allowing you to focus on specifics. And good technique is good technique, whether you then use it on piste or off.

As regards Snoworks, a big 'thumbs up' for them, I'm sure you've made a fine choice. They do try very hard to accommodate swaps and changes.

A snowHead

Another day of blue skies and sunshine and no wind! On the whole the pistes are getting a little slicker, sharp edges required. We set off for Le Fornet via Paquis and Combe Folle drag, but Combe Folle broke down, we were right in a dip and played the will it wont it game. After 10 minutes it didn't so we started again! It seemed relatively quiet around La Daille, we found out why when we got to the top of Laisinant, everyone was in Le Fornet. Luckily they weren't using the Pyramides chair and the double drag, so that solved that problem. Oh and there was one of those accursed backpack bluetooth speakers going in the queue for the drag. He didn't look impressed when I asked the World "What is that f****ng row?" I don't care what people like just don't impose it on others in the peace of the mountains. Or I may digitise my Little Jimmy Osmond LP Twisted Evil

As it was just about 12 we had a Cascades lunch as the queue for the Chair evaporated, the runs were great. Home was via the Up and Over L and down into Val Claret for a trip to the lift pass office to check on free days at St Foy. Season pass holders are entitled to one free day there, but the system has changed. You now go to St F with your Lift Pass and the paper receipt, they will then give you a pass. I'll be combining that with A super U receipt Wednesday voucher when some buddies come out.

The weather is still a conundrum even for Friday as a battle royale goes on the synoptic charts. But here goes: tomorrow will be like today, but it will cloud over during the evening and there will be a breeze especially at altitude. Currently Friday looks like sunny periods in the morning, but becoming overcast with a chance of a very light snow shower through the night. Friday will have a reasonable wind though, so it will feel cold. Saturday will be cloudy with a stiff breeze and light snow showers in the afternoon (on current predictions), a cm or 2 maybe. The best guess for Sunday is sunny periods with a strong breeze becoming very gusty in the afternoon.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

The day started with blue skies and sunshine, but it was a warmer night and felt warmer as the day went on. There was much more water running down the road at 2 pm and when I got in the apartment it was much more light, all the snow hollows above the velux windows had collapsed allowing spring in. A thin veil of cloud spread in from the west mid afternoon but its still bright and everyone has shadows still.

Today was the first real 'tour' for 2 years for me. So it was a relatively short one as we left Col du Palet and skied down to Plan du Janin, the snow was very varied, I don't think any turn was the same! And then a skin back to the Refuge for lunch which has a new menu. The Penne Forestiére was great and some interesting new sparkling drinks, I chose the sparkling apple with ginger, lemon balm and verbena (I had to take a photo of the menu to translate that lot when I got back). To quote Peter Kay - a taste sensation.

On the way home we noticed that Grand Huit is still out of service, a friendly lifty said they don't know when it will be back. Good job we have the new rope tow!

The weather is changing! The weak weather front keeps ebbing and flowing on each run of the models. The precipitation on Saturday currently looks as though it will grind to a halt about 80 miles west of us, if only the high pressure over the Baltics would move to Russia, it might get here. Tomorrow will be mainly cloudy I think, with variable amounts of cloud which will come and go through the day. But there will be quite a strong wind so it will feel much cooler, definitely another layer for the last day of the week. Saturday looks like being overcast all day, not too cold but grey with a breeze at all altitudes, so keep that extra layer on as there probably won't be a glimpse of the sun. Reasonable day for transfers though, every cloud and all that! Sunday is likely to start with a nice morning, with a few clouds before they build up in the afternoon until the sky becomes overcast, that stiff breeze will remain and there may be a dusting of snow during the night. There's little confidence in the forecast for Monday, best guess: sunny spellls.

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Bolin also broke down this afternoon, don't know if they got it going again?

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Bollin, broke; Grand Huit, dead meat; Marais, not back in a hurry. If STGM were a ski lift company it might be quite funny...

Bollin came back on a few minutes after 4pm but I'd skated home by then being unimpressed with the queues for Tichot.

Grand Huit is out till further notice.

Marais might be replaced over the summer; new species of butterfly discovered apparently so the environmental report needs update. Lift co borrasic more likely.

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Indeed, @Steve Angus, and you touch on another on-going issue which is the regular breakdown of Boisses and Brevieres gondolas, the latter being a single point of failure. There's only so many free drink vouchers folk will tolerate before they simply avoid the area. Perhaps Guerlain can exert some influence, seemingly being keen to develop Brev.?

After all it is free

So if Grand Huit is broke, how do you get from Col du Palet/Aiguille Percee back to the Palafour/Tignes le Lac are runs. Part of my planned route for the family back from Val Claret was to use that network.

@FrediKanoute, tow rope at the bottom of merles lift. Effective, but pretty embarrassing for a ski area claiming to be the best in the world.

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So probably time to look at the ski lift issue before the weather! Ultimately, there is only so much money to invest in ski lifts and over the last 2 years they have lost a season and a bits revenue. It also has to be remembered that STGM do not choose what lifts are replaced with what alone. That is decided by an alliance of interested parties led by the Mairie. Also STGM do not own the lifts, they just have a licence to operate them, which in itself is a good thing as the resort cannot be turned into a cash cow and run down, a % of lift takings must be reinvested. Now I have my idea of a perfect lift system but the village, the ski schools and STGM all have their own ideas so life is a compromise.

Marais, installed in 1980, was basically condemned according to the Parish magazine as it could not be upgraded to current safety standards. Pre covid there were hurdles with various authorisations including from the National Park and the land owners where the pylons need to go. Not sure where we are with those, so it will be replaced, but the date has not been published. To ease the Brev issue Aiguille Rouge also needs upgrading, I have seen this in an old plan, I wouldn't mind betting Tichot will reappear there (see below).

Grand Huit is relatively young, being installed in 1997 (although some bits were cannibalised from other chairs, but all the bits that matter were new). The issue really is the amount of traffic but with lots of other competing priorities a rope tow (Replat) was installed to help ease the burden. I guess back in the day with less visitors a compromise was made. Remember, this was not long after the building of all the lifts for the Olympics including the Funi, so maybe resources were tight, but maybe not as tight as next door in 2003 after STVI nearly went bankrupt after the building of the Olympique vanity project. I cant find out what's wrong with 'Big 8', there was no one up there yesterday which suggests they are waiting for a part to arrive.

There are still lots of older lifts which will become a problem and with the move to Gondolas to overcome climate change issues its not going to get any easier as they are more expensive. Again, competing priorities have to be resolved, we will shortly be getting a new Tichot gondola to cope with the surge from the new Club Med, who knows what brown envelopes have been passed to achieve this wink

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Tricky innit?

Today was mainly cloudy (a couple of suckers gaps when the sun made a milky appearance) and a strong wind picked up which caused some higher lifts to close and the cancellation of the Slopestyle qualis on Double M. So they have all gone through to the final as there aren't as many competitors after a long season. There was also a strong Fohn wind blowing down the valley in Bourg very early on, thanks to timlongs for that early heads up! Today was designated as a day off, so met tigski for coffee and a software update for the transceiver, the Barrivox has a buddy buddy system, so once one person gets the update from a dealer he can pass it round. We went to the Oxygene Cafe on the Palafour Gallery, new this year, very pleasant and very reasonable. Lots of sarnies and pasta style stuff for lunch, just a bit of a hike down the road in ski boots from the bottom of Chardonnet though.

The weather is going to be similar for the next few days though the details may change, looks like its going to warm up in the middle of next week. I think tomorrow will be more overcast and there will be a stiff breeze at all altitudes, but I'm not going to rule out the appearance of the sun on the odd occasion. It will feel cool without the sun and the breeze. Sunday will be very similar but there will be a srong gusty wind at altitude, so again the top lifts may close. And there may be some light snow showers during the night. Heavier precipitation is only about 60 miles to the west, so this could change, if we all breathe in deeply at once. Monday will begin with a veil of cloud which will then break up in the morning to leave sunny periods and light winds, so it will feel a good bit warmer. Tuesday will probably be similar but a few degrees warmer, a few days of real spring like weather will follow. There are just hints of cooler weather for the following week.

For the flyers tomorrow, there should be no real problems, its nice over here. In the UK there is a chance of gusty showers all over the country, so it may make for bumpy departure or arrival. There is a chance of a few thunderstorms so you might get very wet going across the car park, more so in Edinburgh wink

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The roads will be busy but not too bad with 32k arriving in the Tarentaise and 30k leaving, so yes slow going at peak times but not horrendous.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

^ yeah I always use the Bellevarde chair! Hardly ever use the Olympique.

It’ll be interesting to see which chairs they replace over the next few years. I hope they make the new Tichot gondola easier to get to, it’s a right sweaty hike!!

A snowHead

Saturday transfer travel FYI - Review from my mate travelling back today:
“Imagine if it took so long to get down the valley that I missed the plane and had to buy a new ticket for 350 Swiss francs… as if that would ever happen Eh oh!

… 6 hours from Val to Annecy, total gridlock from bourg onwards.”

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@thelem, My comment on climate change was linked to the snowline often being higher in early winter so a gondola allows upload and download to allow the resort to open earlier in the year. This used to be the resorts below 1500m in France but the thinking seems to have changed even up here. 4 years ago the snowline was about 2400m, so Val D'Isere could easily access a number of pistes via the Solaise Express, Le Fornet Telepherique and the Olympique returning via Marmottes. Tignes had the Glacier only as the Tov bubble was next to useless as you couldn't ski down to Tommeuses or VC, it was too warm for snow cannons. So, I guess in a way its called future proofing!

I think the Olympique was a vanity impact project but you are right, in terms of shifting the vast hordes it is not great. A bubble leaves every 35 seconds or so, but as the loading is a bit of a faff and everybody wants to sit down the maximum I have ever seen is 23 on a bubble, (nominally it should take 30), so at that rate it only shifts 2600 per hour, so no wonder the queues are bad in high season.

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A late evening in The Embuscade for the rugby, it was a raucous but friendly night with lots of hugs for the neutral Englishman sat next to the duty Welsh bloke. But there was lots of good natured banter and a lot of shots after the final whistle!

It was a bit of a grey start today but overall definition was OK because the cloud was not thick enough to block the sun in most places, but there were some clouds on the peaks formed by the strong winds blowing damp air uphill. In the wind it was decidedly chilly. But teh day started domestically with window washing, as the water drips through the planks onto the balcony below, I wait till last weeks guests have left and do it before the next gang arrive. I then did a quick walk uphill, but I could see some of the chalky snow lower down had been transformed by the wind and higher temps and after a refreeze it didn't look that pleasant. There will still be some on higher and northish facing slopes I'm sure.

The weather forecast is still changing as a pretty non descript features wander aimlessly across France, so confidence is not high even for Monday, but here goes. Tomorrow will start with sunny periods and a reasonably strong wind, so like today, but the cloud will progressively thicken and light snow will start late afternoon or into the evening depending on which model you use. But only a cm or two so little to halt travel. Monday may well start with sunny periods and a stiff breeze, again it will cloud over and there will be light showers in the afternoon, which may be a bit sleety below the Dam. These will continue into the evening and maybe into the early hours of Tuesday. 3 or 4 cm if we are lucky, a little more if we are very lucky. Sunny periods for Tuesday, lighter breezes and a bit warmer. Wednesday may well be similar to Tuesday but it will be much warmer, before it cools down again on Thursday. The long term forecast is more unsettled we may be in for snow next weekend.

For those travelling tomorrow, its another day of gusty showers in the UK, so a bit bumpy near the ground. Over here snagless.

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@Grinning,

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@GeorgeVII, Not forgetting the Annecy Marathon in early April also....... and the Geneva Motor show....

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So that’s why the Bens bus coach I am on to Tignes was an hour and a half late and now driving through annecy on the east side of the lake! Blimey

After all it is free

That wind this morning … explanations if poss?
Howling through Val Claret to the extent that I queried the Tufs liftie whether the Val/TIGNES link was at risk.
Half way up Tufs and the supply cables are giving a great demonstration of harmonics.
Top of Tov down Val-side - zero wind.
3 Funis later all in calm air and returned via Piste H. Top steep pitch, no wind.
Take the left hander and practically brought to a standstill with the wind funnelling up the piste.
So, in sum, howling low altitude wind TIGNES side, calm higher up and Val side.

Foehn wind

https://bubblyprofessor.com/2021/01/23/zonda-diablo-norwester-chinook-the-foehn-winds-of-wine/

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@HoneyBunny, agree a tough skate over , cannot understand why the rope tow was taken away

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My lad left Val D on Ben's Bus at 8:20, got to Moutiers 3 hours later....

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@Grinning,

This is from Chamonix meteo , explaining the Foehn downhill gusts increasing to 50km/h along the slopes and in the valley . Not Val/Tignes but the same effect .

PERSISTENT FOEHN PATTERN • Extended high over E Europe, precisely N Scandinavia to the Central Mediterranean, toping by NE Poland towards 1033 hpa. • At least as extended is the opposite low pressure area, 958 hpa SE of Greenland to 992 hpa far W of Bay of Biscaye. • S flow in-between, driving puffs of Mediterranean humidity up to North Sea. And furthermore shaping 10 hpa foehn gradient between Italian Piedmont and Savoy. • Resulting downhill gusts may increase somewhat above 50 km/h along the slopes and down in the valley this Saturday. • This pattern is then expected to remaining rather unchanged until the middle of next week. To be confirmed.

A snowHead

A snowHead

@Grinning, To add to the Foehn wind debate, Rob's link points to the classic or primary cause of the Foehn effect. This relies on air cooling at the Saturated Adiabatic Lapse Rate on the windward slope as it rises to the point where precipitation occurs, ie the air mass loses water. So when the air descends on the leeward it then starts warming at the Dry Adiabatic Lapse rate (which is higher than the wet one) so it gets warmer quicker. But from what I have seen over the last few days there has been little or no precipitation to the south of use. So it is more likely to have been caused by the second foehn causal effect, that of draw down on air from aloft. This happens when the winds are not that strong on the windward side so effectively are blocked by the mountain ranges and only the air towards the tops of those mountains can get over. The temperature and speed of the winds increase as the higher pressure towards sea level compresses it as it descends, hence the strong winds down In Bourg yesterday morning, that eventually appeared here. There may also have been an element of the third cause, that of turbulent mixing similar to water going over a rocky river bed. The local differences you felt are probably accounted for wind being 'lazy' it will follow the path of least resistance down a mountain funnelling into gaps etc. This happens every day in big cities with high buildings, you know the one when you walk round a corner and nearly get lifted off your feet.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

And onto today, but just before I start the local paper is running an article on the closure of the sluice gates in the Dam 70 years ago, I have looked but can find no actual date, but 70 years ago plus or minus a few days was when the villagers of the old Tignes knew that there time was up and out they had to move. The rest, as they say, is history.

The light was not too bad today so a team of us had a Sunday ski around the Bellvarde, an early coffee had to be taken at La Rosée Blanche as Tommeuses broke down for an hour or so, which meant queues developed until folks redistributed them selves round the mountain. Some of the pistes are deteriorating a bit know as it has not been so cold overnight. About 1.30 it got a little darker and a few flakes have floated past the window, but nothing of any significance. Today is the first full day for European Snow Pride, which is mainly centred around Val Claret - welcome to one and all.

The weather continues to confound both the models and me, even for tomorrow there is confusion and disagreement between them, so its a case of LOOTW, as what I write as a best guess may well change. But, after a night of a few more flocons the skies will clear and tomorrow morning may well be mainly sunny, but the cloud will increase through the day and by evening time there may well be a few more flocons. There will be a reasonable breeze too. The best guess for Tuesday is lighter winds and sunny spells, so it will feel warmer. But not as warm as Wednesday and Thursday when the winds will drop and the temperature will rise and the clouds will disappear, so pretty much like late spring, beers on the terrace, hard pistes in the morning, softer by lunchtime, and beers on the terrace. There is still hope for snow next weekend though!

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Hi guys!
Any idea what the traffic will be like Saturday morning coming up to Tignes? Hopefully, a mate will be driving me up in the morning sometime from the other side of Albertville, no idea of journey times.
I'm following your weather thread avidly, fingers crossed for at east some soft and fluffy!
Ta muchly,

Nik.

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@nik - follow the Tignes.net traffic page, which gives a valley view of expected traffic from Fri-Sun each weekend.

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Ok, ta.

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Well, that's a good shout, never found that before!

After all it is free

Or go direct to savoie-route.fr which is the source for all the resort data, its where I get my data for the Friday report, funnily enough its in the useful links on page 1 wink

But to answer your answer, its about 1 hr 20 from Albertville to Tignes on a normal traffic day. If you leave at 9.30 it will take about that, if you leave at 1.30pm it will take 2 hrs 30.

chocksaway - re wind speeds etc yes re the DALR / SALR (good on geography teaching here to get my head around that one) but isnt there also a sort of reverse Venturi / Bernoulli’s effect going on as wind squeezed up the valleys and then as you get higher altitude it 'opens out' and slows down?

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Repost from Steve's page in case anyone has some friendly advice.

I'm in town this week (well tignes actually), weather was not too fun today, seems like the west facing slopes of tignes have some serious sheet ice lurking beneath the top soil which felt distinctly man made. Actually looking forward to a bit of warmth and softening of the pistes which seems forecast for Tuesday onwards. Also think the cold wind damaged my right toe strap today, the locking mechanism is not springing back, feel like it's a matter of when rather than if. Disappointed seeing as it's only the third week on the Union bindings. My cheap old k2s were hardy and decent shouldn't have bothered upgrading! Anyone know any decent shops should my binding fail for either a repair or a good deal on a new pair? Thanks!

Help!!

Tignes and The Espace Killy (Or Tignes/Val D'Isere) 2021/2022. (Useful links updated on Page 1)

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