 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Great. I work around the corner from there at the moment. Must head over to have a nosey.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Great location, very central and more accessible to the northern members. I wonder if they’d give Admin a good deal for a  meet-up?
I believe gastropubs usually serve chunky chips and proper onion rings. If they get some proper Italian coffee, they’ll mint it!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Anyone getting in 'bed' with Ei (formerly Enterprise Inns) is unlikely to profit from the deal. They're no longer even interested in selling beer. Basically a property company who would rather sit on a site hoping for appreciation than sell it now to someone who would actually run it sensibly for a decent living and the benefit of customers.
What stopped the SCGB using some of its staff skills (or even outside assistance from those in the pub trade) and maybe even a little investment if required to take on a freehold property for their new boozer?
Or even if it has to be tenanted, at least 'free-of-ties', to permit pouring some interesting grog at semi-sensible prices (it'll never be cheap, being in Central London).
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 27-07-18 11:40; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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First link redirects to what appears to be a scam Amazon site. Beware.
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Picture on that page looks more like an Ikea living room than a trendy pub 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Bet the pub co can't believe their luck - they've found some mugs who will subsidise them launching a new format. If it's a success they have a formula to roll out elsewhere, failure it's the SCGB's stupid idea and they rebrand as a Brazilian Bodega or whatever.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The space is all but a shell at the moment and looks pretty small although seems to have a mezzanine level.
I think its a little too far from the new Museum of London site for visitors to find it in preference of the multitude of bars/cafes/pubs in that immediate area. Likely that it will need to be attracting the Monday to Friday office crowd. As well as the one the White Haus will be part of there is a larger new office building going up opposite on Plumtree Court (where I used to work many years ago in a rather more 70s block than what is being built today) . However opposite as well is a long established pub the Hoop and Grapes and a few doors up are two wine bars so quite a bit of competition.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@ster, I still think they should have called it The Queen’s Hemorrhoids.
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Might give it some much needed publicity but not sure about the crowd it would attract!
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You know it makes sense.
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Hmm. Not been to the SCGB site for a long time - this thread triggered a quick look. Not sure about this claim in About Us - bearing in mind the size of snowHeads:
| Quote: |
| The Ski Club is the largest and oldest snowsports membership organisation in the UK, with over 28,000 members. |
But it is a smart, professional looking site, and has a SSL and privacy policy.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Gerry Aitken, official representative and 'leader' for the Ski Club of Great Britain wrote: |
| @ster, I still think they should have called it The Queen’s Hemorrhoids. |
Given that the Ski Club of Great Britain has royal patronage - HRH The Duke of Kent, Patron - is that a sensible reference to our Head of State? You're a uniformed representative of the organisation (enjoying expenses-paid skiing all over the Alps) but - for some 15-20 years now - have behaved like some sort of moronic out-of-control 'offence bomb'. It's difficult to comprehend what your objectives actually amount to, unless they comprise some sort of masterplan to erode/ruin the reputation of a Club that once enjoyed immense international prestige ... and might have an opportunity to restore that prestige if it made some intelligent progress.
| achilles wrote: |
Hmm. Not been to the SCGB site for a long time - this thread triggered a quick look. Not sure about this claim in About Us - bearing in mind the size of snowHeads:
| Quote: |
| The Ski Club is the largest and oldest snowsports membership organisation in the UK, with over 28,000 members. |
But it is a smart, professional looking site, and has a SSL and privacy policy. |
Dear achilles, what is your understanding of "the size of snowHeads"?
David Goldsmith
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Davina Goldballs, The Queen’s Hemorrhoids is a fictional inn featured in the Terry Gilliam film Jabberwocky, by all accounts it's one of Her Most Gracious Majesty's favourite films.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Davina Goldballs, the sH membership list is ~ 54K. Now as you know, some are sock puppets - others will have left the scene long ago. It is difficult to do a straight like for like comparison between the two organisations, since financial support of sHs is voluntary, in contrast to the SCGB, where a subscription for membership is required. Even so, my guess is that the SCGB are being a little over optimistic in their claim.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Davina Goldballs, Sorry but that's a whoosh for you there.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Sending @Davina Goldballs, scurrying to urban dictionary to look up whoosh.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Gerry wrote: |
| @Davina Goldballs, The Queen’s Hemorrhoids is a fictional inn featured in the Terry Gilliam film Jabberwocky, by all accounts it's one of Her Most Gracious Majesty's favourite films. |
| eblunt wrote: |
| @Davina Goldballs, Sorry but that's a whoosh for you there. |
| ringingmaster wrote: |
| Sending @Davina Goldballs, scurrying to urban dictionary to look up whoosh. |
You - eblunt and ringingmaster - must surely be aware by now that anything from Gerry Aitken is - in fact - a hot whoosh.
If there's anything in what he claims he'll no doubt provide references to the "accounts" he's citing there in "by all accounts". Maybe his 'accountant' could help.
Perhaps he can provide a full 'account' of Her Majesty's favourite movies?
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| achilles wrote: |
| @Davina Goldballs, the sH membership list is ~ 54K. Now as you know, some are sock puppets - others will have left the scene long ago. It is difficult to do a straight like for like comparison between the two organisations, since financial support of sHs is voluntary, in contrast to the SCGB, where a subscription for membership is required. Even so, my guess is that the SCGB are being a little over optimistic in their claim. |
Yes, in other words, snowHeads doesn't have a membership. Like any other sales organisation it has an overall number of active clients. And, in terms of forum users who don't buy holidays but are are active users of the site (reading and/or posting to the forum), there's a larger number. What's your guesstimate of those two figures?
An update on SCGB membership numbers. There's been a remarkable development in recent days ...
https://www.facebook.com/notes/wtf-ski-club/ski-club-of-gb-revises-its-membership-upwards-and-downwards/1392561780846705/
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Just to clarify the above ... the SCGB is currently publishing 3 different membership figures simultaneously ...
| Quote: |
| around 27,000 members |
Source [recruitment bulletin for members to join the Club's elected Council]:
https://www.skiclub.co.uk/news/ski-club-news/2018/08/become-a-ski-club-council-member
| Quote: |
| over 28,000 members |
Source ['About the Ski Club']:
https://www.skiclub.co.uk/about-the-ski-club
| Quote: |
| over 30,000 members |
Source [LinkedIn recruitment ad. for new accountant]:
https://uk.linkedin.com/jobs/view/accountant-at-ski-club-of-great-britain-742420946
My hunch is that neither of those figures is correct, and that the true figure is significantly lower than 27,000 ... but let's see if the new accountant can count!
By (recent) tradition, the SCGB will publish a membership figure in its 2018 annual report, due in the autumn, but (as I understand it) this will not form part of the audited accounts of the Club (if the past is anything to go by).
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While we're pondering numeracy ...
| achilles wrote: |
| @Davina Goldballs, the sH membership list is ~ 54K. Now as you know, some are sock puppets - others will have left the scene long ago. It is difficult to do a straight like for like comparison between the two organisations, since financial support of sHs is voluntary, in contrast to the SCGB, where a subscription for membership is required. Even so, my guess is that the SCGB are being a little over optimistic in their claim. |
| Davina Goldballs wrote: |
| Yes, in other words, snowHeads doesn't have a membership. Like any other sales organisation it has an overall number of active clients. And, in terms of forum users who don't buy holidays but are are active users of the site (reading and/or posting to the forum), there's a larger number. What's your guesstimate of those two figures? |
So, achilles, any further thoughts on this? There's clearly a massive difference between the "membership list" of "~ 54K" [your terminology] and the recorded readership numbers for specific sH threads. This one, for example - New Ski Club of Great Britain chat forum - is on the busiest section of the site, has been going for 6 years, has run up over 5000 postings in that time, attracting a total of nearly 400,000 views ...
... but that's an average of only 76 pairs of eyes per posting. And this is a relatively popular thread on the forum.
There's a big difference between 54,000 and 76. For instance, 76 football supporters would look a bit lonely inside Wembley Stadium.
I'm suggesting to you that the cumulative figure of "~ 54K" is essentially meaningless, in terms of comparing the community sizes of SCGB vis-a-vis sH. It's certainly not a "membership list".
What certainly is clear (to balance the argument) is that SCGB membership engagement with the the SCGB itself continues to be weak. It's a national club, with its membership effectively in the shadows. There's some social media activity on Facebook ... and all the resort-specific groups the Club has set up there ... but migrating membership data to Facebook is unlikely to be uncomplicated.
I guess the SCGB's main arena of engagement is via its holiday programme - perhaps used by 10% of members currently - but that makes one wonder what the other 90% get out of membership. Insurance?
-------------------------------------------
Finally, a couple of updates on the upcoming 'Ski Pub of Great Britain' - the 'Alpine-themed' gastropub being built on Farringdon St in the City of London (actually to be called the 'White Haus') ... with anticipated input from the SCGB in terms of 'ski museum' type stuff installed ...
https://www.facebook.com/groups/325182624251298/permalink/1406951496074400/
... and previously ...
https://www.facebook.com/notes/wtf-ski-club/ski-pub-of-great-britain-named-located-/1379496742153209/
See you there. Mine's a pint
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"Popular" defined as "like a car crash".
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Davina Goldballs while we're pondering literacy
| Quote: |
| My hunch is that neither of those figures is correct |
Neither/Nor is a choice of two options. You've unearthed 3 therefore the word should simply be 'none'.
I should get out more …….. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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According to ABC Audit, Ski & Board went out to 16k membership subscribers in the year to December 2017. A large percentage of those subs are families or couples, so I can see how you could arrive at 27-30k for the total number of individual members.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 14-08-18 12:16; edited 1 time in total
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Snowheads figures as of this morning:
Total membership: 54,008
of which:
19,361 have made 2 or more posts
6,637 have made just 1 post
28,010 are just reading the forum
I don't have any visibility of how many of these are currently active (say, posted or visited this year) but these are all people who have registered as members of the forum.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@olderscot, but we do have some members who have been on bashes but have never posted.
You can prove anything with statistics so they say 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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'Membership' figures are pretty meaningless anyway, I've met a surprising number of skiers who are members of the Snowboard Club UK despite not being snowboarders at all - just to access one particular discount they offer (a discount that is also available to super/mega snowheads BTW).
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@Tubaski, eh? What discounts?
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Tubaski,
What we need now are badges....
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Poster: A snowHead
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| olderscot wrote: |
I don't have any visibility of how many of these are currently active (say, posted or visited this year) but these are all people who have registered as members of the forum. |
probably around 100.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Gerry wrote: |
| According to ABC Audit, Ski & Board went out to 16k membership subscribers in the year to December 2017. A large percentage of those subs are families or couples, so I can see how you could arrive at 27-30k for the total number of individual members. |
This is another "hot whoosh".
A few points:
1. As revealed above, the Ski Club of Great Britain is currently publishing 3 different membership totals at the same time: "around 27,000", "over 28,000" and "over 30,000".
2. At least two of those three figures must be wrong. Despite that, you claim that they represent a range of figures that "you could arrive at".
3. The "over 28,000" and "over 30,000" figures would imply that the SCGB's membership has grown - or grown significantly - since the last declared (2017) annual report membership figure of 27,789.
Source: https://issuu.com/skiclub/docs/ski_20club_20of_20great_20britain_2/1?ff=true&e=12827994/55382453
As detailed last year, the membership figures going back to 2007 - as quoted in annual reports - show 11 years of continuous annual membership decline:
| Ski Club of Great Britain wrote: |
2017: 27,789
2016: 27,822
2015: 28,597
2014: 28,990
2013: 30,110
2012: 30,457
2011: 31,448 (17,114 paying units)
2010: 32,963 (17,893 paying units)
2009: 33,108 (18,084 paying units)
2008: 33,761 (19,114 paying units)
2007: 33,566 (19,139 paying units)
[NB: Paying units have not been declared since 2011.] |
4. You say ...
| Gerry wrote: |
| According to ABC Audit, Ski & Board [the SCGB members' magazine] went out to 16k membership subscribers in the year to December 2017. |
Are you aware that ABC [the Audit Bureau of Circulations] is saying ...
| ABC wrote: |
| Ski Club of Great Britain is no longer registered with ABC |
Why is the SCGB - which has had its magazine circulation audited by the ABC since the 1970s - no longer registered with ABC?
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| olderscot wrote: |
Snowheads figures as of this morning:
Total membership: 54,008
of which:
19,361 have made 2 or more posts
6,637 have made just 1 post
28,010 are just reading the forum
I don't have any visibility of how many of these are currently active (say, posted or visited this year) but these are all people who have registered as members of the forum. |
A couple of points
1. As pointed out above, snowHeads apparently has no such thing as a "membership". The figure you've quoted is declared as ...
| snowHeads wrote: |
| There are 53644 registered snowHeads |
That would include snowHeads who are now, sadly, snowDeads or deadHeads.
That would include (one would guess tens of thousands) who are either (a) no longer alive - snowHeads who are now, sadly, snowDeads or deadHeads (b) no longer skiing or interested (c) duplicate registrations - multiple usernames
2. What is your source for the "19,361", "6,637" and "28,010" figures?
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| olderscot wrote: |
| I don't have any visibility of how many of these are currently active (say, posted or visited this year) but these are all people who have registered as members of the forum. |
| davidof wrote: |
| probably around 100. |
Perhaps slightly on the low side.
My guesstimate of the number of active snoweads? - those actively using the forum for reading or writing posts? I'd put the figure (based on the numbers reading popular threads) somewhere between 2000 and 5000.
Any administrator of the forum care to comment?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Davina Goldballs wrote: |
| What is your source for the "19,361", "6,637" and "28,010" figures? |
"Total posts" figures are available to every registered member. Not difficult to extract the above.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Brilliant, goldfish is still going on about the same stuff after flouncing off x times. You couldn’t make this stuff up.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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He's quite proud of the numbers of posts and views in this thread. I really can't be ar$ed to do so, but I reckon if you took out all the repeat posts that he makes the figure would be significantly different.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rogg wrote: |
| He's quite proud of the numbers of posts and views in this thread. I really can't be ar$ed to do so, but I reckon if you took out all the repeat posts that he makes the figure would be significantly different. |
And confuses people looking at the car crash with popularity and importance. I've no doubt SCGB has more "active" members than snowheads if you say that those who neither post nor meet sHs in person in a given year are not "active" but I would question the activity level of many SCGB members too. Passively having a DD taken or being auto enrolled as a student doesn't particularly mean a lot. Skiing with a rep or attending SCGB events or even actively engaging online would be different.
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In other news ...
"IN A SURPRISE MOVE" ... as they say on News at Ten ... the Ski Club of GB has moved its annual 'leaders course' back to Tignes, after 3 years in Zermatt. The course takes place in early December ...
https://www.skiclub.co.uk/events/2018/12/leaders-course
The cost is not
It is actually £2999.00
The move is a suprise because, in 2015, the Club symbolically moved the course from France to Switzerland in protest at a French legal ban of its 'leaders' leading skiers down French mountains. The Club said at the time ...
| Ski Club of Great Britain wrote: |
| “We’ve had many great years in Tignes running the Leader course but due to the local restrictions in France of Leading on snow, we are relocating our course to a new venue of Zermatt,” said Jonny Cassidy, general manager of Ski Club Freshtracks. |
Source: http://www.wheretoskiandsnowboard.com/news/ski-club-moves-leader-course-to-zermatt/
A snowHeads thread of that era on that subject ...
http://www.snowheads.co.uk/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=119025&view=previous
So ... the return move overlaps the SCGB Leaders Course (2-15 Dec) with the snowHeads 'pre season Bash' (1-8 Dec) ... providing great opportunity for cultural exchange and the usual entente cordiale.
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| Davina Goldballs wrote: |
4. You say ...
| Gerry wrote: |
| According to ABC Audit, Ski & Board [the SCGB members' magazine] went out to 16k membership subscribers in the year to December 2017. |
Are you aware that ABC [the Audit Bureau of Circulations] is saying ...
| ABC wrote: |
| Ski Club of Great Britain is no longer registered with ABC |
Why is the SCGB - which has had its magazine circulation audited by the ABC since the 1970s - no longer registered with ABC?
--------------------------------------
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Reality check: https://www.abc.org.uk/product/643-ski-and-board
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Davina Goldballs wrote: |
In other news ...
"IN A SURPRISE MOVE" ... as they say on News at Ten ... the Ski Club of GB has moved its annual 'leaders course' back to Tignes, after 3 years in Zermatt. The course takes place in early December ...
https://www.skiclub.co.uk/events/2018/12/leaders-course
The cost is not
It is actually £2999.00
The move is a suprise because, in 2015, the Club symbolically moved the course from France to Switzerland in protest at a French legal ban of its 'leaders' leading skiers down French mountains. The Club said at the time ...
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All that's happened is the balance of opinion has shifted as people have moved in and out of positions of responsibility within the club.
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"REALITY" + "RESPONSIBILITY"
Yes. Two worthwhile words, worth repeating ...
1. REALITY
Yes. The reality is that the SCGB gives away - for nothing - over 4700 copies of its magazine, because the paid membership subscription numbers are considered too low (16,048) to attract advertising. In the early 1990s the SCGB was selling over 12,000 copies of its magazine on the newsstands, in addition to its subscription numbers, yielding a total circulation of over 28,000.
The 2017 ABC certificate: https://www.abc.org.uk/Certificates/48693422.pdf
The 2018 ABC situation: https://www.abc.org.uk/product/15785
The other reality, as above, is that the Ski Club has actually discontinued its registration with ABC, so presumably the 2018 circulation figure for the magazine will not be audited.
https://www.abc.org.uk/product/15785-ski-club-of-great-britain
All in all, the size of the SCGB's overall membership - and the quality of its demographics - are absolutely vital to its commercial health.
2. RESPONSIBILITY
| Gerry wrote: |
| All that's happened is the balance of opinion has shifted as people have moved in and out of positions of responsibility within the club. |
Well, if it's finally dawned on the SCGB that responsibility is the best policy, then that's to be celebrated. Is that really the reason the course has returned to Tignes?
Responsibility is an issue if an organisation is putting people in uniforms to guide skiers around mountains - on and (particularly) off piste. But the outline of the course content for the 2018 Tignes training looks (on the surface) to be very similar to that covered in Zermatt.
There were strong rumours a year or two ago that the Ski Club was finally going to look at training its members to be proper professional ski instructors, by perhaps becoming a qualifying body ... which could have happened (at the ground floor) from the early 1960s if the SCGB had progressed in an obvious and sensible direction. By becoming proper professional ski instructors, these SCGB members could then acquire advanced skills to become 'off-piste qualified' or undertake training to be professional ski guides.
The reality of recent decades is that the Ski Club's essentially amateur ski 'reps'/'leaders' have been embroiled in controversy, fatalities, resultant prosecutions and other legal problems, and difficulties in standing up their 'leader' 'qualifications' - not transferable, and not recognised in France. The Club (perhaps with some support from its insurers) has spent a fortune on defensive litigation ... to what effect?
Are we finally moving forwards now, or continuing to bumble along with the 'King Canute' strategy?
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FAQ
