 Poster: A snowHead
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seand, you can take the ET at any point.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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FlyingStantoni, you can only take the ET once you are Level 2 i believe.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ah, almost certainly the case jjc james.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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seand, If you pm me your email, I will send you the program....It is all attachment's.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I love the picture of the ESF instructor showing how to "safely" kebab a small child!
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skimottaret, from the BBC article
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A German snowboard instructor, Mattias Prinz, took France to the European Court of Justice, arguing that his qualification should have been recognised in the French Alps.
But the court dropped the case last July after France agreed to make an exception for Mr Prinz. |
I would think this is because stopping people working who are qualified is in breach of EEC law.
BASI 2 and ISIA are qualified to work in mountains according to BASI, we can therefore work in any EEC country according to EEC law.
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DISCUSS
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Dunk,
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I would think this is because stopping people working who are qualified is in breach of EEC law.
BASI 2 and ISIA are qualified to work in mountains according to BASI, we can therefore work in any EEC country according to EEC law.
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That's not quite true. My understanding is an EU state is entitled to set their own minimum standard, however they can't stop fellow EU members who meet that standard from working (and that is supported in the link david@mediacopy, provided). France's minimum standard is comparable to BASI L4.
The topic of snowboarders is an entirely different question, as of course France doesn't actually have a snowboard qualification (it's a ski qualification). This is why BASI has introduced a L4 for snowboarders.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Beanie1 - How you doin 
Yours is a voice of reason in a crowded confused world
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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just to let everyone know age discrimination within the Eurotest will be discussed at the BASI board meeting this coming weekend in Hintertux , i will pass on details as i receive them
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beanie1, I believe there has been a French (I understand regional) court case which has NOT disallowed L2 working in a ski school enviroment?
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You know it makes sense.
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[Dunk, I'm not aware of the detail of individual cases, but what I posted above is the wide EU rule about the right for a country to set standards.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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skimottaret, Thanks for the update
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Poster: A snowHead
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Dunk, Have a read of the first section in my link above:
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Any EU national who is legally established in a Member State may provide services on a temporary and occasional basis in another Member State under his/her original professional title without having to apply for recognition of his/her qualifications. However, if the profession in question is not regulated in that Member State, the service provider must provide evidence of two years’ professional experience.
The host Member State may require the service provider to make a declaration prior to providing any services on its territory (to be renewed annually), including details of insurance cover or other documents such as proof of nationality, legal establishment and professional qualifications.
If the host Member State requires pro forma registration with the competent professional association, this must be automatic. The competent authority must forward the applicant’s file to the professional organisation or body on receipt of the prior declaration. For professions that have public health or safety implications and do not benefit from automatic recognition, the host Member State may carry out a prior check of the service provider’s professional qualifications within the limits of the principle of proportionality.
In cases where the service is provided under the professional title of the Member State of establishment or under the formal qualifications * of the service provider, the competent authorities of the host Member State may require the latter to furnish recipients of the service with certain information, in particular concerning insurance cover against financial risks arising from professional liability.
With regard to both the temporary provision of services and permanent establishment in another Member State, the authorities concerned are to ensure a proactive exchange of information relating to any serious circumstances arising from an individual’s establishment on their territory that are liable to have consequences for the pursuit of the professional activities concerned. This exchange of information must be carried out in compliance with existing data protection legislation. |
The way I read it is:
I'm qualified.
I'm Insured.
I work in the UK.
I should be able to work in Europe.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sorry to butt into your thread, but I'm a little confused by this whole thing.
As BASI, AMSI and the ESF (well the French anyway) were the only ones
invited to the meeting that is pushing for the Eurotest to be maintained in its current form,
is BASI for or against the test as it is or not.
Seems a simple question to me.
The meeting of GB/I/F voted for the test and it then pushed it forwards - even though every other country voted against it.
Very strange behaviour for BASI
It now seems that any countries (ski assoc's) that do not agree with the eurotest are bared from future meetings where
it will be voted on.
Even stranger behaviour for BASI
taken from
www.isiaski.org/download/20110118_st-anton_dv_protokoll_en.pdf
***************************************
Björn Zeitz presented the report of the Legal Commission:
Dear ISIA colleagues,
It is now 8 months since we met in Scotland and this report follows on from the report
of the Legal Commission which was presented in May 2010 in Aviemore.
I remember very well that we told you:
"if we, the ISIA, do not succeed in eliminating the Eurotest in its current form, then
most of your ski instructors will no longer be allowed to give ski instruction independently
across national borders in the EU zone ".
This prediction has been virtually confirmed over the past few months; I would expressly
like to point out that you have received the additional justifications concerning
the ISIA complaint to the EU Commission containing the numbers relating to the failure
rate of up to 90 % for the Eurotests known to us and this information can be checked at
any time:
the last Eurotest in Garmisch, March 2010, in particular shows very clearly that if the
jury had not exerted a degree of flexibility in handling the Eurotest regulations, not one
of the 50 candidates would have passed in the 2nd heat!
Is it appropriate to have a regulation which leads to such results?
I would like to mention a further impressive example:
I think nobody will contradict me if I say that Austria has undoubtedly got the best ski
instructor training programmes in the world and qualified Austrian ski instructors are
amongst the best in the world; when almost 2/3 of these world-ranking ski instructor
candidates would have failed the Eurotest at Austrian ski instructor diploma examinations
if you took the reference skiers as a basis for the calculations in accordance with
the regulations (according to the Eurotest/spring 2008 at Arlberg), then we must ask
ourselves again if a Eurotest regulation which leads to such results is appropriate?
There is no doubt that the purpose of this Eurotest is to preferably prevent European
ski instructors from working in different European countries in line with the motto that:
only those ski instructors who have successfully passed the Eurotest should be allowed
to work throughout Europe!
But only a fraction of European ski instructors pass this Eurotest!
That is what this business is all about, nothing else. On behalf of the steering committee,
Dr Mailänder will provide you with more detailed information on this subject.
Regarding the chronological series of events since May, we can report the following:
Following Scotland, the ISIA steering committee had a meeting with the EU Commission
in Brussels on the subject of the Eurotest and the complaint; Mr TIEDJE, i.e. the
Commission, particularly wanted to know what the EU member nations' views are on
the existing Eurotest.
We then, as you know, carried out a survey of the individual EU nations and informed
the EU of the decisive result of this survey, namely that the vast majority of ISIA members
adhere to the resolutions carried in Jesolo regarding the pyramid, the minimum
standard, the ISIA card and the ISIA test and reject the Eurotest, at any rate in its current
form.
In a further personal discussion in Brussels, we informed the Commission that the ISIA
would be prepared to make any reasonable compromise for its members even withdrawing
the complaint and maybe the action against FEMPS, if it were possible to
come to an acceptable agreement with acceptable results for the candidates; there has
not been a reaction to this from the Commission however.
There was a meeting in Chamonix between the President of the ISIA and the Vice
President of the ISIA/De Gaudenz with Gilles Chabert/SNMSF with the purpose of
reaching an agreement; it was unsuccessful because Gilles Chabert cancelled a further
meeting to settle the details.
A further meeting in Brussels showed unmistakably that the EU Commission wishes to
push through the Eurotest in its existing form against all opposition, regardless of the
consequences which may result for individual ISIA members; the ISIA was not invited
to any more meetings after September 2010, let alone admitted to any meetings.
On 16.11.10 there was a meeting in Brussels with some Treaty of Lyon nations, other
nations were denied admittance despite their requests, but were invited – with F/I/GB
participating once again – to their own meeting in Brussels on 9.12.10 where all the
countries "invited afterwards" voted against the Eurotest in its current form. A great
deal of pressure was exerted on those country representatives who dared to take Dr
Mailänder with them to support their position. After the event, it was made clear to
them via their governments that they would no longer be welcome in Brussels!
That is the current situation; the French EU Commissioner Barnier would like to have a
European professional identity card for ski instructors, the requirement of which would
be to have passed the existing Eurotest with all its negative manifestations; this calls
into question the entire system of law and order and especially the European concept.
However, today is also decision day for us:
If a majority here decides through AGENDA PROPOSALS that the steering committee
should withdraw the complaint and legal action against FEMPS - both involved a great
deal of conceptual work and high costs for the ISIA - then we believe you will only be
able to give independent ski instruction in your own country in the future and will be at
the mercy of the goodwill of F and A, and for how F and A intend to deal with their
European colleagues, you only have to take a look at the FEMPS bylaws: with veto
rights and guaranteed majority votes for founding members, democratic opinionforming
is made impossible. Take a close look at these bylaws.
The rational and logical way to proceed can only be:
• that the FEMPS and the ISIA agree on proper recognition of their qualifications,
• and then the ISIA would withdraw the complaint and legal action as we have already
offered to do on a number of occasions; we are prepared to make any reasonable
compromise.
The matter can only be dealt with in this order as far as the ISIA and the majority of its
members are concerned.
I have been in the ISIA since 1979; 30 years ago under the aegis of Prof. Kruckenhauser
and Prof. Hoppichler, we had a friendly argument about who taught the best
techniques and who could execute the best and most effective traverse from left to
right. Today there are bitter arguments as to how foreign colleagues can be most effectively
prevented from instructing in their own country. This is surely not our European
future!
Björn L. Zeitz
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Wayne, Thanks for posting the extract.
I find it hard to see how BASI's strategy on this is in the best interests of the majority of the membership.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Wayne wrote: |
Sorry to butt into your thread, but I'm a little confused by this whole thing.
As BASI, AMSI and the ESF (well the French anyway) were the only ones
invited to the meeting that is pushing for the Eurotest to be maintained in its current form,
is BASI for or against the test as it is or not.
Seems a simple question to me.
The meeting of GB/I/F voted for the test and it then pushed it forwards - even though every other country voted against it.
Very strange behaviour for BASI
It now seems that any countries (ski assoc's) that do not agree with the eurotest are bared from future meetings where
it will be voted on.
Even stranger behaviour for BASI
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BASI are currently sitting on the fence on this issue. They support the Eurotest in it's form but are also going along with the ISIA challenge.
I don't think anyone is barred from future meetings to discuss the ET? The French may choose not to turn up. FEMPS got a little upset and are not too keen to discuss but all ISIA affiliated bodies can discuss at will with or without them. The French representatives in particular don't want a change or a challenge. The vote to continue the case in court to challenge the ET was a majority to continue.
A secret vote was carried out on this motion using voting cards. Whoever voted with "YES" was for a withdrawal of the complaint against the Eurotest, and whoever voted with "NO" was for the continuation of the proceedings.
Result of the vote: 50 NO, 26 YES
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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david@mediacopy, it's not. As I stated clearly and succinctly earlier in the thread it's a hegemony. All the bilge and faffing about on this thread is like when you're forced to negotiate with someone who holds an unfair advantage and you're having to try to talk him round without wanting to annoy him.
Wayne, link to that was posted pages ago, but doesn't do any harm to have plain truths from the official body representing the world's ski instructors repeated.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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slikedges,
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when you're forced to negotiate with someone who holds an unfair advantage and you're having to try to talk him round without wanting to annoy him.
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Very often that's exactly what negotiating is all about. Have you done much of it?
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To be fair they have a right to hold an advantage, i don't see many EU instructors lining up to work in the UK.
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jjc james, that is always a big part of the argument within the ISIA.. the counter to that is the flatland countries have the clients who pour into resorts and take lessons. i am sure you have heard in France they recon a Brit punter is worth 4 French punters as they spend in shops, restaurants bars etc and these clients want native english speaking instructors.
It will be interesting to hear if BASI will release any information to members after their Board meeting this weekend in Tux.
slikedges, i believe this thread has been very positive without too much faffing, it was successful in getting lots of people to consider their opinions on the merit of the ET and has indirectly gotten some action going with the group letter to BASI resulting in it being discussed as an agenda item at the board meeting. It is great to get the likes of the JJC's candidly and openly debating as well as a few anonymous higher ups chipping in as well. We shall see if anything tangible comes from those discussions but rather than just idle chatter on the internet or in the pub the discussions here may help shape policy...
ps and a public thanks to you for getting the word out and adding to the list of names on the BASI letter. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hurtle, gosh really? I've always taken a shoot first ask questions never policy. You should try it, might stop you feeling like you just must get involved in every single discussion on this board.
skimottaret, in the end the right view prevailed so ultimately it's been a helpful thread but any informed person reading it will recognise that it's been an exercise in tip-toeing around those with a vested interest in the ET who can't but know very well indeed that their position is based wholly on that self-interest (not that I blame them for that at all - if it were of such fundamental importance to me I'm sure that'd be my position too  )
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slikedges,
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feeling like you just must get involved in every single discussion on this board.
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I don't but, oddly enough, I take an interest in legal issues.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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slikedges,
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in the end the right view prevailed
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What is the right view, there appears to be many. 
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any informed person reading it
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What qualifies someone as informed on this topic? I imagine their view would depend on where their information stemmed from. I think this thread has helped many to become much more informed by seeing both sides. If you look back through the pages the test has become much more accepted as we answer the many questions people have. I think we have managed to prove many of the common complaints are not actually true and shed some light on why there are some valid reasons for the test.
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based wholly on that self-interest
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With some actual knowledge of how the tests run and a realistic view of what level someone has to be at to pass it. An informed person would realise we only operate ET training for 6 weeks a year and would make as much money and save a lot of personal time coaching for someone else. We see it as a good challenge and means we can help candidates rather than just being the guys setting those annoying times.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skimottaret, If no real number of brits ski in the uk and no instructors want to work there how do you expect to negotiate? People go to france as it is now and have a great time, will lowering the of standard ski instructors benefit anyone other than lower level instructors? Are the real people with a vested interest not those that don't hold the ET?
Here we go again! 
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Hurtle, gosh really? I've always taken a shoot first ask questions never policy. You should try it, might stop you feeling like you just must get involved in every single discussion on this board.
skimottaret, in the end the right view prevailed so ultimately it's been a helpful thread but any informed person reading it will recognise that it's been an exercise in tip-toeing around those with a vested interest in the ET who can't but know very well indeed that their position is based wholly on that self-interest (not that I blame them for that at all - if it were of such fundamental importance to me I'm sure that'd be my position too )
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Seems someone has forgotten their 7000+ comments on snowheads, maybe you should spend less time typing and more time skiing! May even relieve you of your vested interest!
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Mon 9-05-11 19:55; edited 1 time in total
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jjc james, i would agree that as insignificant as BASI is in terms of numbers of ISIA/ISTD's they do a great job of getting on the top table and being involved in the negotiations. shame that most of the energy is spent on ensuring the top few percent can work in france. they won that battle ten years ago and from my selfish vested interest perspective it would be good to see if we could get some attention focused on L3 working rights within the EU. I disagree completely that simplifying and slightly easing the ET will lead to a lowering of standards, L4 should not be viewed as a minimum standard to work as a ski instructor. The ISIA structure of Stamp holders being able to work under supervision in any ski school globally and Card holders to work as independents makes a whole lot of sense to me.
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You know it makes sense.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| It would be good to see if we could get some attention focused on L3 working rights within the EU. I disagree completely that simplifying and slightly easing the ET will lead to a lowering of standards, L4 should not be viewed as a minimum standard to work as a ski instructor. The ISIA structure of Stamp holders being able to work under supervision in any ski school globally and Card holders to work as independents makes a whole lot of sense to me. |
Agreed.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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skimottaret, I agree and the Level 4 is not the minimum standard and there are plenty of places to work as a non level 4. Way more places will take an ISIA than refuse to employ them.
L3's can work in the EU. Austria, Italy, Andorra etc all except Level 3's and lower in many instances.
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Poster: A snowHead
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as has been stated many times, the skills added by having the ET are almost totally irrelevant to teaching the core client base of the UK instructor overseas.
However I was just pondering the following point and wondering if ive got it all wrong again?
Each year those at the top of the sport get better and better and 0 FIS point times are reducing year on year as training and technology improves, given that the ET is calibrated back to within 18% of 0 FIS does that mean that if I pass now I am a better skier than someone that passed 10 years ago.
If this is the case the ET will get harder and harder over time thus protecting those who seek to 'pull the ladder up after them"
like I said im probably wrong 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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jjc james, sorry my wording wasn't clear and should have said the L4 is the current minimum standard for mutual recognition within a subset of only a few EU nations (the Eurogroup)..
An L3 or L2 license MAY get you work but usually with strings attached, max weeks, local speed tests like the old AVMS or Test technique, language exams, 4 years to get your ISTD no off piste, some off piste, etc.. etc.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimottaret, Hey sorry, my only reason of commenting was the way slikedges, wrote to Hurtle,. Shooting his mouth off and asking questions..... never!
My views on the test are written here for all to see and the last comment was merely playing devils advocate. But there are places to work year in year out whilst training to achieve these qualifications almost every trainee we have had is a working ski instructor and none have the Test Tech.
Also if you are looking for somewhere to work hassle free check out switzerland and austria, i know these don't have any of the hassles you mention above. There are probably more but these 2 are the ones i know to have many working basi instructors each season.
Off piste is iffy really, i'm not sure i rate the Level 4's off piste as its just a hoop to jump through and it's at a higher level than the IASI version. It's a tough one, is 2 weeks really enough to allow a person to work in more dangerous conditions?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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jjc, jjc james, down boys! Hurtle wasn't exactly on a charm offensive. Trust me, if I had a vested interest I'd be tip-toeing round you guys too, not chucking home truths around
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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slikedges,
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Hurtle wasn't exactly on a charm offensive.
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I acknowledge that. These words
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As I stated clearly and succinctly earlier in the thread
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and
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All the bilge and faffing about on this thread
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had, for some reason, got right under my skin.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hurtle, well, irritations abound here (and indeed all around us in life) and I'm fortunate to generally not have the time to feel inclined to snipe pointlessly at people I don't know
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as has been stated many times, the skills added by having the ET are almost totally irrelevant to teaching the core client base of the UK instructor overseas.
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There also have been many detailed answers by us and others as to why that statement is wrong. It is quite alarming any instructor could think that. To back your statement up have a go at explaining why it is irrelevant along with why lowering the standard of instructor is a good thing for anyone other than those wanting to instruct (sure I have asked this about 10 times now)
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Each year those at the top of the sport get better and better and 0 FIS point times are reducing year on year as training and technology improves, given that the ET is calibrated back to within 18% of 0 FIS does that mean that if I pass now I am a better skier than someone that passed 10 years ago.
If this is the case the ET will get harder and harder over time thus protecting those who seek to 'pull the ladder up after them"
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Good question but if anything it is getting easier.
Firstly the difference in the equipment they use and the candidates use is getting smaller and smaller. Secondly equipment used now compared to 10 years ago is far more forgiving, it enables someone with less skill to do more. The equipment changes are therefore much more beneficial to the candidate.
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I'm fortunate to generally not have the time to feel inclined to snipe pointlessly at people I don't know
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hmmm another way around this would be if BASI added 'Trainee' to all qualifications below L4. Then we'd know what we are paying for.
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Stuff I have learned from this thread and conclusions I have reached
Sorry for the huge post but I am planning to contact BASI with regards to a lot of what has been posted here and have tried to summarise my thoughts. I picked up an ankle injury so now have some time on my hands stuck at home
BASI
BASI has done a great job as a small association in staying well placed in the negotiations and getting recognition within the Eurogroup nations for ISTD’s. This was ten years ago and now there is a golden opportunity to create an EU wide recognition standard for professional qualifications.
It was reported here that BASI has sent off a proposal to the EU this year that will undoubtedly have far reaching ramifications for members yet the membership has no idea what the contents are.
We elected the board and they hire the management and we should let them get on with their jobs and not paralyze progress through endless debates. That said, for a members based, not for profit training organization to not inform their members of the contents of such a key document is not right in my view. If they are constrained by the EU or agreements with other bodies not to disclose they should at a minimum publish the main points of the submission.
Why doesn’t the Association publish to the members a broad annual or longer term strategic plan? The members are not informed of specifically what improvements and new projects will be undertaken, their respective priority and implementation timescales.
We get reports on progress from the newsletter but this is generally after the fact.
ISIA publishes minutes of key meetings yet BASI doesn’t, odd given they are a members based training organization.
SHOULD THERE EVEN BE A EUROTEST?
Whether or not a timed test should form part of the top certificate is debatable. The safety argument used by FEMPS to get the ET in place with Europe is fundamentally flawed, it is not revalidated nor can any evidence be brought forth that the initial level set had anything to do with safety.
But BASI, ISIA and FEMPS all think so and I assume one will continue to be part of recognized top certs and in my opinion rightly so. But lots of inconsistencies and argument surround the tests.
BASI members get to take the test as many times as they like much, wherever they choose to the annoyance of say the French who only get two goes a season. This is reflected in pass rates as the French for instance turn up better prepared.
The French report at an ISIA meeting that 5,464 people have passed Eurotests run within France since its introduction 10 years ago. It was reported in the BASI news annual report 2009/10 that 110 have passed ET.
Assuming a few more got through since 09/10 since the Eurotest has been part of the BASI L4 ISTD award I would estimate roughly 150 BASI members have passed it, with a few more who got exempted.
Is the level set correctly so that an average of 15 people a year pass and are granted the top award out of an association of 6,000. We hear “plenty” pass but is a handful a year the right level?
PROCEDURES FOR TIMED TESTING
I have been for a timed test at the highest level for several years now but with what appeared to be wild inconsistencies of pass rates of the ET I felt the newer ISIA test seemed fairer to me as any nation within or outside of Europe can run tests locally with openers based on FIS points that can be gained in competitions anywhere.
The ET Calibration of openers at first seemed to me to skew results as one quick opener could make a test unfair. But if, as been reported here, they will change to averaging the times of the two fastest openers & closers this is a slight, but important modification and concession. ET openers can be anyone with sub 50 points in the previous five years. Ex professional racers with nothing to prove would be more likely to set a consistent time that represents their calibration as opposed to trying to “win”. Compared to the ISIA test that requires at least two current 45-55 point skiers gained in the previous year to run tests with and these people may just have a few good results under their belts and may not be consistent openers or may be current racers who are out to “win” as opposed to set a fair time.
There are deep divisions between ISIA and FEMPS caused by French intransigence on changing the ET yet France is the only place in the world that has a system where an independent instructor can make a decent living. So who is serving the best interests of the profession? Tough one.
I would hope they could harmonise the tests or at least grant recognition to non European top certs that have passed the ISIA test outside of the EU. This is unlikely as FEMPS who hold all the power wont change unless ISIA make good on their threat of legal action.
In my view the compromise should be that the ET should average ALL the openers and closers and the ISIA openers should be approved / validated in some way like the ET to stop rigged races like in Iran and the Garmisch give away. It should also be handicapped by age as well as gender.
BASI has felt the need to send a TD to ensure fairness at ET’s for some time now (begs the question why) and I have been told a report of her findings will be compiled and released. It will be most interesting to hear what her conclusions and recommendations are.
AGE HANDICAPPING
The test is handicapped for gender not for age, this is wrong and has the effect of dissuading older people from joining the profession instead of encouraging them. A 6% handicap was determined as being fair for females certainly someone can work out a fair handicap for middle aged participants.
It appears that the current ET may be illegal and discriminatory but it will most likely take a law suit to test this.
RIGHT TO WORK in the EU and Globally
Much debate is focused on the ET and ISTD as being the minimum standard of ski instructor within Europe yet the ISIA has voted for and approved the pyramid three level structure of ISIA Card, Stamp and trainees/local instructors several years ago.
ISTD / Card should be mutually recognized to allow for independent operation, not be the definition of a minimum standard for instructors. However this is not what the French or to a lesser extend the Italians believe. They feel you are either a full cert instructor or a trainee. This however isnt made clear to the public who pay for lessons.
The BASI ISIA / Stamp award at present is nothing more than a stepping stone on the path to ISTD. It is of little to no value in the EU marketplace and although the training is great this fact is not made clear to those embarking on the very expensive BASI pathway.
BASI should be pressing the EU to allow ISIA stamp holders to be mutually recognized and to be able to work within ski schools under supervision for an unlimited time as per the ISIA pyramid.
If the ISTD card is to be truly a benchmark and allow to teach unsupervised globally a time test is a good thing to remove any doubt between nations just as the EMS (judged by independent mountain guides with a qualification that is recognized between all the skiing nations) is good to ensure a level playing field for off piste safety. Both the ISIA and Eurogroup agree on that.
I don’t understand is why we need an L4 tech AND the ET. One or other should suffice to measure technical standard.
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FAQ
