 Poster: A snowHead
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Week 4 Update,
Been back at work for a week and a half (office based work). The first week was very difficult and my leg swelled below the knee quite a lot so done short days and leg up an iced as soon as home (with a cup of tea and the Chase!)
Driving has been fine for the last week, no problems there.
Over the past 5 days, i have felt massive improvements and a lot more flex and have been using a static bike - will go out for a short ride outside this weekend if nice enough. A couple of gym sessions at the hospital and the muscles in by leg are building up fairly rapidly (way below the good leg of course).
Have cut back massively on pain killers, only taking ibruprofen occassionaly in the day time and always taking some stronger tramadol at night just so i get a decent sleep. Overall, pretty pleased since the initial setback. Trying to do more physio at home which i'm pretty lazy at.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Libertine, Good to hear it's going well 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Libertine, yes, it is good to hear that it's going well and the infection is well and truly over. It is difficult to motivate yourself to do the physio - much as I found it weird and disconcerting when my surgeon told me I wasn't allowed to do any physio for ages, I can't deny it was a relief to be able to bin all those boring exercises for a few months.
I have been away for a couple of weeks and have done nothing but eat and drink and relax (was staying in a hilly coastal area so not even walking about much)... decided I should really get back on the exercise wagon today... blimey you can tell the difference if you haven't done anything for a couple of weeks... No change in flexibility or anything like that but have definitely managed to lose a little of the strength I had been starting to build up (though it was so little I don't think it'll take me long to get it back again!) My physio seems to be away as I can't get hold of her, so I think I'm going to have to try a different one as I really should get on it now to be in the best shape for a return to skiing (although I won't do any until mid December). Have ordered winter cycling clothes as well, as autumn has well and truly arrived in the mountains in terms of temperature (tree colours are lovely though).
In the meantime, until I can get a physio appointment, I guess I will have to get some off the internet that don't require more than stretchy bands or a swiss ball as that's all I've got.
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week 5 update,
Cycling to work (1.5 miles each way) with my seat a little higher but still low enough to help with improving flex. Physio says that I can use road bike now but no more than 5 miles to start and no hills/ minimal incline. I will go out this weekend.
Lifting my heel up to touch my heel has got a lot better, the distance has dropped from a gap of 53cm to under 10cm - so annoyingly close.
Can walk up stairs tw at a time without holding on - down stairs 1 step at a time without holding on.
First day wearing shoes at work today so dont look like a nob with suit and trainers (i may go back to trainers as it is not as comfortable on the knee in shoes)
Goin to physio twice a week and have joined a gym for cycling and physio exercises.
still feels a long way from jogging and stiffens up when sitting for over 30 mins. An even longer time to ski again, looking at all the ski mags in WH Smith !!.... looked at knee braces but they are £300 and some !
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Libertine, I'm back skiing on our local dry slope with no brace and I'm confident that I'll be able to do without one in the Alps. Last time out on Monday the knee felt while skiing but was fairly sore generally while standing around. The rehab exercises from the physio skiing don't help but I can see progress in regaining muscle. The next strength test will be interesting.
Insurance looks to be a pain. So far it appears that I won't have any for that leg but it's early days yet...
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Libertine that all sounds great for 5 weeks, particularly given you lost some time early on with the infection.
AndAnotherThing.. Great that you are back on skis!
| AndAnotherThing.. wrote: |
Insurance looks to be a pain. So far it appears that I won't have any for that leg but it's early days yet... |
Sorry, would you mind explaining please? Your insurance company has said if you have any injuries to that knee (of any kind or specifically to new ligament?), it will not pay for....? Rescue? Repair? Repatriation?
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AndAnotherThing.., who are your insurers? Is it because you also instruct?
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AndAnotherThing.., I never had a problem even with all the damage I had repeatedly repaired while living in the UK! This seems to be a newish thing in the UK as we never had to inform insurers of any old injuries for the students we took skiing and loads of them had broken arms, legs etc before they took up skiing.
If your surgeon has cleared you, surely it means you are without any restrictions?  I certainly do not have to declare any "damage" for my insurance here and the coverage I have had has been superb.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The people I spoke to today (ERV) have a 'no existing conditions' exclusion on their policies. I don't think that it's an Instructor issue as it sounds quite general. So they are saying that no payment for an accident 'related' to that leg 
I've only just started to look at insurance again so fingers crossed I'll find more amiable companies !
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AndAnotherThing.., as Sue said, surgeon sign off should rule it out of being an 'existing condition', surely?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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miranda, I suspect that I'm not signed off as yet as I have another appointment with him in March. I may drop him an email for clarification on the skiing but I'm working with my physio who's really the one deciding what's appropriate at any given time.
That said the lady today seemed to think that an 'op was an op' but to be fair the whole conversation so far has been 'confused'. I do despair with Insurance. They don't appear to want to be in a 'risk' business.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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AndAnotherThing.., what a pain in the bum.
It's obviously a different scenario for me as I could, and wanted to, stay in France. When I had my accident, I ended up not using my UK insurance at all. They would cover rescue, emergency medical and then they wanted to repatriate me straight way. They preferred to pay for a private taxi from La Giettaz to Geneva, 3 seats on a plane to the UK and then private taxi from Glasgow or Edinburgh to Gairloch (which is miles and miles away) rather than pay for the prescribed treatment of 20 courses (which would still have taken place in my covered time in France) of physio for a total cost of € 300.
In the end EHIC and Carte Neige have reimbursed the whole cost from start to finish. What that combination didn't cover, and which I didn't need of course, was repatriation or out patient accommodation costs during treatment.
I'm sure you'll find someone to cover you but what a pain - hope your surgeon gives you a helpful reply.
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miranda, I do wonder if relying on EHIC and Carte Neige in the first instance my be the way to go for the 'leg'. I've ADAC motor breakdown cover and one of the very useful benefits is emergency repatriation in case of accident and illness so in theory at least I should have 'ok' cover.
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You know it makes sense.
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AndAnotherThing.., if it is healed and you are discharged, it is not an "existing condition" is it. If they are taking that line, I would not bother with UK insurers any more. As miranda says, EHIC card, Carte Neige and your ADAC repatriation cover. I've used my ADAC repatriation three times now  Once when I dislocated my shoulder race training, again when my left knee went and the last time was when I broke my ankle last summer. Worked like a treat each time. Just took one phone call, then they called me back for any clarification. All I needed was the diagnosis/doctor's letter as proof I could not drive.
What does BASI's insurance say about it? There must be dozens of instructors with various injuries from their careers in outdoor pursuits, or the Alpine Club or BMC?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Samerberg Sue,
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if it is healed and you are discharged, it is not an "existing condition" is it.
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Yes it is. But it should be possible to cover it, albeit at an increased premium.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Pedantica, not according to the orthopaedic surgeons it isn't. The joint is not weaker, if you have done a good rehab program the knee and leg is stronger and, if anything the reconstructed ligament is actually stronger than the ligament that broke. If you have an on going condition or an illness such as high blood pressure, that is an existing condition, but it is kept under control with medication. All I can see is yet another means of insurers racking up the premiums and refusing to pay out.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Samerberg Sue, yeah, well, my new aortic valve is better than the old one, but it's still only covered at an increased premium. You're right about this though:
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yet another means of insurers racking up the premiums and refusing to pay out.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Samerberg Sue wrote: |
AndAnotherThing.., if it is healed and you are discharged, it is not an "existing condition" is it. If they are taking that line, I would not bother with UK insurers any more. As miranda says, EHIC card, Carte Neige and your ADAC repatriation cover. I've used my ADAC repatriation three times now Once when I dislocated my shoulder race training, again when my left knee went and the last time was when I broke my ankle last summer. Worked like a treat each time. Just took one phone call, then they called me back for any clarification. All I needed was the diagnosis/doctor's letter as proof I could not drive.
What does BASI's insurance say about it? There must be dozens of instructors with various injuries from their careers in outdoor pursuits, or the Alpine Club or BMC? |
BASI are my current insurer but I need to check them out. I wasn't massively impressed by their claims handling outfit while I was in resort so I'm looking around.
Glad to hear that you had a good experience with the ADAC - the fee is almost worth it for that alone, especially the way UK insurance companies are going.
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Week 25 update:
Just back from the physio. The strength machine reports that both legs are now roughly the same, with the hamstrings a bit stronger than the quads. The 'good' leg is a bit weaker than on the original test and as quads are usually stronger than the Hamstrings I'll need to continue the strength work for a few weeks yet. The good news is that since the last visit (about 5 weeks ago) I've managed a 35% improvement in strength on the 'bad' leg. The new physio regime now includes a lot of agility drills plus a continuation with the strength work so it's not over yet.
From a practical point of view I'm comfortable skiing on plastic but teaching beginner snowboarding was a bit uncomfortable. Last weekend was spent yomping around Snowdon including some scrambling and that was fine. Still can't sit completely in my heals 
If you are Midlands based I'd recommend the Sports Injury Rehab guys at Lilleshall ( http://www.lilleshall.com ) who have a lot of experiance fixing PFA footballers coming back from ACL ops. Better still thay are about to move into their swanky new building that's going up there. The cost is £35 per session and I'm doing a session every 5 weeks or so which keeps it affordable. In return I'm given a list of drills to do at home and an assessment of where I am in the recovery.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Good stuff,
out of interest, what was the % difference between the good and bad leg at the three month stage?
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Libertine, The first test on the machine was at week 17, where the 'bad'' leg was 35% down on the good one. I think the physio was doubtful that testing before then was useful as there was a lot of healing etc. still going on.
How are you getting on ? Keep posting the updates, it would be nice to include your experiences as a consolidated update on the other thread I started - http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=91354
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AndAnotherThing.., wow, that's amazing that you have got roughly the same strength in each leg!! I don't feel that at all (but then I had this no-exercise rehab for a long time!)
I do feel 99.5% 'normal' now, in that I can sit back on my heels, sit cross-legged, walk around up and down stairs etc. without noticing any difference at all... you'd also have to know there was a problem before you would notice any visual difference... but when it comes to doing some strength exercises, the difference is still obvious!
Would you mind posting some of your drills for the 4-6 month mark?
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miranda, yep, no trouble - I'll jot them down later for you.
The odd thing is the good leg has lost strength but we were speculating that perhaps that's because it had become stronger covering the the 'bad' one at the start and that extra work has gone away, along with the muscle.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hi all, just thought I would give a quick update. I am now 10 weeks post op.
I am walking and driving absolutely fine and have been for a while. I had a set back 2 weeks ago where i slipped on the wet floor of bar and hurt my knee badly but no damage was done thank fully. I am at about 130 degrees flex which is not great as my physio says im far behind where I should be. I can just about fully straighten my leg now without any pain or stiffness.
I managed 3 miles on the cycling machine on resistance 1 which felt great. I must say I've been seriously lazy about getting in the gym, Uni life is hectic and I havent been particularly motivated.
The best bit for me though is that I have been kayaking twice over the past month on some fairly serious white water rapids, namely 'hell-hole' in Wales on the Wye. I've capsized and been doing fairly strenous things without any problems at all which is great as It is a bit of excitement and adrenaline back in my life which is keeping me sane until I can ski and ride bikes again!
Thanks
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hazamadcow, Glad to hear it's coming along. As I mentioned to Libertine I'm putting together a consolidated thread showing the rehab progression from a few people to give others an idea of what to expect & when. If you fancy contributing that would be cool...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Week 8 Update,
Slow improvements everyday. i can fully straighten my leg without pain. I have been raising my leg at the ankle when sitting down to let gravity flatten the leg and feel like its going to bend backwards. this has definately helped. I still cannot touch my heel, painfully abouty 1-2cm awat now.
i cannot kneel without severe discomfort even if it on a mattress. my consultant said that i may never be able to kneel, "some can, some cant " was his flippant response. he did confirm what AndAnotherThing.., said previously about the 6-10 week mark being the most critical where the hamstring has lost some of its initial strength and gets used to its new "home" and the blood starts to flow and the graft gets stronger.
i have been cycling to work each day which is 1.5 miles each way. I went out on my road bike for the first time on Sat and done a 9mile flat route which was great. went out on sunday and rode 16 miles and all fine. I will attack a few small hills this weekend. Feels good to be out doing something active!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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How's it going for everyone ?
Libertine, If you could, it would be cool if you could compile your updates to post in the 'consolidated' thread I started. I'll post them up in a space I saved.... More the better
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Hi all, I have started writing a blog about my knee injury and my gradual return back to sport namely downhill mountain biking but also skiing.
Theres only 3 posts up at the moment and they're more about how my injury happened, and the surgery procedure than the rehab, but I will be posting very regularly about my rehab through the various stages right up until i am 100%
Please read if its of interesT!
http://hjwphillips.wordpress.com/
thanks
Harry
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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AndAnotherThing.., congratulations! Sounds absolutely brilliant!
I guess I am a week off the 7 month mark now, but I was out of the country when I was due for my 6 month sign off so have the appointment this week instead. As we've had some guests in this week and are preparing for a full house shortly, I have not had a chance to take advantage of all this snow... in fact it has just added an extra workout to my usual routine as I've been wading through the stuff carrying lots of things. Not done any physio for a long time due to being in the UK, but the knee feels absolutely good as new and has coped perfectly with the sudden upsurge in work this week after months of lounging around so am feeling positive about skiing... as you say though, it's a question of confidence and I'm sure I'll feel a bit wobbly on that first outing! Great to see a picture of you in the snow 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Week 13 Update, Had my three month review today on the strength machine that measures the difference in strength between the two legs. the results - in no particular order - show that the strength in my right (the bad leg) quad was 43% less than the good leg. The strength in the right (bad leg) hamstrings was 30% lower than the left (good) leg.
Whilst a little disappointed, it was extremely reassuring to know that I could go flat out and push the bad leg much more than I thought I would. The physio was actually happy with the results and said that I can start light jogging in 6 weeks time so thats something to look forward to.
As for other training, I have been attending physio once or twice a week but have been pretty lazy when it comes to doing the exercises at home. I ride my bike on routes of 30 - 40 miles per session now and there in little or no pain from that.
I have been told to really crank up the quads in the gym now and to do a lot more stretching which I have not been doing !!
Was thinking of potentially trying to ski in march at 6 months, but i dont think its worth the risk - i'll have to wait until December 2013 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Libertine, The results sound similar to mine. Rather than 6 months in March aim for 7 months in April and score some lovely Spring skiing in Tignes 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hi guys, good to hear everyone's either back on snow or thinking about it, I've looked at this thread from time to time as I tweaked my knee a bit back in June, not to the extent of being offered surgery as the first option but enough to stop me skiing since then, I was wondering....is the leg strength test something they only do after reconstruction!
The other thing of interest to me and maybe others would be how you did the injury in the first place, might be something you'd rather forget so fair enough, I remember mine like it was in slow motion, mine felt a little innocuous at the time, and I'd have never thought it could happen the way it did but will probably be very conscious and more aware about it once back on skis.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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gatecrasher, I've never had a leg strength test! I'm just going on how I feel and to be honest it now genuinely feels as if the whole thing never happened, but if I did a strength test I'd no doubt discover it was some % weaker than the other leg. Actually, yesterday I knelt down to get something out of a floor level drawer first thing in the morning, sat back on my heels, and noticed a bit of resistance in my knee that I hadn't felt for ages, but later that resistance had completely gone, so maybe the operated knee takes a little warming up still in the mornings.
I injured myself by skiing fairly fast (but not dangerously so), ski caught, took a tumble, left ski stayed on and wedged in snow, ACL totally ruptured. Didn't really hurt (was more suprised and dazed by the tumble than anything else). Could stand up and walk but could also tell straight away that something wasn't right despite the lack of pain. Was really hoping it was "just" a strain (though actually now discovered that strains are painful and that it's a more clear-cut protocol if it's a full rupture).
Planning to go out with my instructor first few times (who has done both ACLs and who knows what I am/am not capable of) and to have my bindings pretty loose. Other than that, there's not much more I can do. Been skiing for years and years without ever injuring myself, so while I will take it relatively easy this season and probably do a lot more snowshoeing to make sure I don't just gently cruise around not doing anything to build muscle strength and fitness (beyond running a chalet!) I suppose my aim is actually to win the psychological battle and to try to not be very conscious and more aware...
Will you be skiing this season?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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gatecrasher, You should be able to get a strength test privately at a decent sports physio set up and it shouldn't be too expensive. They didn't bother for me on the NHS.
I did mine in a off piste gully. I got caught by some sluff that started to take my feet, causing me to get way back. It 'popped' as I tried to recover, before I'd even hit the ground. Once I felt it go I let myself fall to try and minimise the damage. To be honest the video shows I wasn't skiing especially well on that run (mid afternoon) and I'd tried to bail after the first run of the day only to be talked into continuing by the guide. It's interesting (frustrating) how a set of circumstances conspired which resulted in the accident.
With hind sight it was avoidable although the surgeon thinks it was already weak due to a previous injury so I guess it was going to go sooner or later.
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AndAnotherThing.., thanks for that, the reason I asked is because I went private through my work cover but they've never done any strength testing so wondered if it didn't really apply to me? You're right about frustrating circumstances, mine was in the last hour of a week long race camp. I had some real lightbulbs that week and lots of plans to change my fitness regime afterwards.....obviously none of that happened 
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Sorry miranda, missed your post & thanks for your reply, I'm not sure yet if I'll be skiing, I was originally told back in June no skiing until at least Christmas time if all goes well, I spoke to my physio last week and convinced her I could probably do a few runs on the dryslope as I'm getting sooo bored, the knee still doesn't feel quite right but improving slowly, mine was partial damage to mcl, pcl and some acl damage along with bone bruising and lots of other words I can't pronounce to the kneecap and soft tissue etc. I got late on a gate on a very narrow dual slalom gs/combi course with no bail out room so I threw myself into the next turn to avoid hitting the netting..my inside ski locked in to the new turn but my outside ski I guess was off the snow still pointing outside the turn..it was basically a rutline and the shovel of my outside ski caught the mound of snow outside the rut flexing the knee joint sideways and backwards apparently the resulting splits/crash was impressive enough to win "best crash of the week award" It felt a bit weird but didn't really hurt right away and I did 2 more "slower" races on it after that, but within a couple of hours it was quite a different story!
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gatecrasher, Ouch !
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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gatecrasher, gosh, although you say you 'tweaked' your knee, that sounds at least as bad as anything anyone else has gone through! Good that you didn't have to have an operation, but it sounds like the same amount of recovery time and discomfort!
I am grateful that I realised something was not quite right straight away - I can easily see why people carry on despite an unstable knee and do a bit more damage when it doesn't really hurt and you can walk, stand and even ski - you even managed to do two races with all that going on inside your knee! Feels very melodramatic calling for rescue with a 'something's not quite right' feeling but it meant no possibility of damage to other ligaments or meniscus because my leg was immobilised from the off. I think a lot of people soldier on.... I'm sure I would have tried, if I hadn't previously read about knee ligament damage on snowHeads and had a sinking feeling that's what I'd done!
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Mine was the last week of my season. nice lunch beutiful sunny day but the run home was very slushy. wasn't going very fast but turned around to see where OH and friends were, hit a block of slush and felt it go immediately - heard the snap of the ACL. tried to get up and snow plough but no chance. Snapped right ACL, damaged meniscus and something else + plus strained meniuscus and ligaments in left leg. probably happened as my bindings are so tight and i was not travelling fast enough to pop out - had i beem going faster or looser binding i would prob have been ok. falling awkwardly rather than spectacularly is even more frustrating.
interesting to note that mirander can kneel ok - i cannot imagine kneeling on right knee ever again - very awkward when doing DIY.
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FAQ
