 Poster: A snowHead
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| @LaForet, absolutely true. I'm on the Octopus Intelligent tariff (smart charging at home for EVs) which for me has always been absolutely flawless and simple to manage, integrating my car and my home charger with Octopus' Kraken system to deliver dynamic charging to reduce peak load on the national grid. As you say, it relies on the Tesla API to make it simple and reliable. But I've read countless stories of people who struggle to use this tariff to charge their car because the integration between their EV, their charger and the network is just too flaky. |
Intelligent Octopus is a beta product though, right? It works fine with my BMW but it does it by setting a bizarre charge time for a day or two ahead in the car, then charges overnight - but the weird charge slot is still there, so if I charge in the next day or two at work I need to remember to set it back to “immediate charging”. My Mrs has a PHEV Volvo and we can only have one car on IO, so we either pay peak rate for hers (it’s only 11kWh so not a massive benefit) or remember to set the in-car charging timer (which we never do!).
Conflict of Interest Declaration: I used to work in the energy industry and I can’t be doing with Greg Jackson’s Steve Jobs tribute act, so anything Octopus do I tend to try to find a reason not to like it - though I have to confess they are pretty good most of the time (even if their new heat pump looks like a recycling bin)! They’ve just brought in some Kiwi mates who are genuine innovators in terms of customer experience and software so it’ll be interesting to see what comes down the pipe.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@andy from embsay, yes, it’s still in Beta. For me it’s been pretty much faultless, except for the first few days but that was my fault as I set it up incorrectly. But my point is that when it comes to EVs legacy manufacturers really needed to have the same kind of mindset change that EV owners need to have when they make the switch from ICE. We shouldn’t think of an EV just as a regular car which happens to have a battery and electric motor rather than a tank and an engine. It can, and I think should, be something different. For example, how the EV interfaces with the National Grid is going to matter more and more, and the smarter that relationship is the better for all concerned. As you say, Octopus is pretty good at innovating in this domain.
I’m not really aware of Greg Jackson, although I heard an interview a few months back (Desert Island Discs?) and he seemed like the exact type of entrepreneur we could do with having a few more of. Does he wear black polo necks all the time? I briefly met Steve Jobs a long time ago and his sartorial choice I can see might wind people up.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@pam w, Well said.
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@luanb, How exactly can any EV 'run rings around an ICE'? Quicker acceleration, granted. Quieter, granted. Not sure either are of any particular 'advantage'? In every other respect ICE vehicles will continue in the forseeable future to be the vehicle of choice. Drove EV devices 40 years ago. They were good for those heavy lifting jobs. My jibes are at the EV's. Your personal insults always mean you just lost the argument.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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IO works perfectly for us with 2 EV's and just one charger. Just a quick swap of car in the app for the charger and everything is controlled by the charger. Very often means cheap electric outside of the standard overnight hours as well. Was on Octopus Go before that at 5p for 4 hours a day. Good thing about IO is that you get cheap rate whenever the car is charging controlled by the smart meter, so in the rare event I need to put in 10 hours worth of a charge, I get 10 hours at 7.5p for everything.
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| Old Man Of Lech wrote: |
| @luanb, How exactly can any EV 'run rings around an ICE'? Quicker acceleration, granted. Quieter, granted. Not sure either are of any particular 'advantage'? In every other respect ICE vehicles will continue in the forseeable future to be the vehicle of choice. Drove EV devices 40 years ago. They were good for those heavy lifting jobs. My jibes are at the EV's. Your personal insults always mean you just lost the argument. |
As playground saying goes, "You started it". 40 years!! lol...as if tech has stood still. Mind you, ICE tech has stood still, so if that's your reference point, so be it. Actually, not sure why I'm bothering, your kind are always the same, bought into the right wing oil companies funded FUD. You won't change so I'm not going to bother.
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FYI - I've booked an overnight stop in The Mecure Beaune which has Tesla Superchargers so I will report back!
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| luanb wrote: |
| 40 years!! lol...as if tech has stood still. Mind you, ICE tech has stood still... |
While I don't think this is an either/or argument, from the user point of view it doesn't look as if petrol engines have stood still. Forty years ago I was struggling to get 30 mpg, these days I routinely get 60 mpg on long journeys (admittedly a bit less averaged over different driving conditions).
For someone who can charge their car at home and rarely drives further afield than half the range, an electric car has to be something to consider although you would have to balance the extra purchase cost against the cheaper "fuel" cost.
Beyond that group, the case is tougher until the technology moves even further. You would need ranges approaching 400 miles in reasonably priced cars, and charging infrastructure that allows easy and economic charging for those who haven't got a drive to charge at home on, or who routinely travel long distances. From the point of someone who is yet to make the change it would seem absurd if half the petrol pumps in a service station were restricted to BMW drivers, yet that is how it is for electric vehicles at the moment.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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When we replaced our 2nd car back in April, we chose the model first, then whether it would be petrol, diesel or electric. Electric won, hands-down, but only if I was owning it more than three years or so and charging at home. The EV 'premium' over the petrol was 4.6%. The service contract for 7 years was 50% that of the petrol/diesel. Cheaper fuel and servicing meant the EV premium will be paid off after 24 months; the home charge point cost after another 9-10 months; and the entire cost of the car paid off after a further 12 years. So the EV was a no-brainer.
And all that was on a typical electricity tariff. Thanks to the Intelligent Octopus Go EV tariff, I now pay 7.5p/kWh, which works out overall at 1.5p/mile since I've had it. We also get all our household electricity at that rate, not just the EV charging, so obviously, we try to time recharging simultaneously with domestic appliance use when we can. That saving isn't included in these figures.
This isn't to say that an EV is right for every use case. Almost no one claims this, of course, ‘though this is the proposition that is constantly refuted in anti-EV propaganda.
But what owning has made me realise is that there is a concerted, well-funded campaign from the Fossil Fuel lobby and some right-wing politicians to discredit the whole idea of EVs. Having given up on the lie that people are being run over in droves because they’re ’too quiet’; and finding that the fire lie only focuses attention on the 20x-60x greater propensity of ICEVs to catch fire; they've moved on to the 'The charging infrastructure isn't ready yet' and 'The massive price premium' propaganda. Don't fall for it. If you're in the market for a replacement car, give it some intelligent thought and research and make up your own mind.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sun 31-12-23 11:28; edited 2 times in total
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@LaForet, there’s a lot of the same reasoning whenever anybody suggests cycling for short journeys: “but what if I buy a fridge? What then, eh?”.
It’s the same with my RR driving mates - “what if I need to drive 400 miles without stopping?”…
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@LaForet, Totally agree. The only issue I can see with EVs is the range (but that's actually only an issue for a small number of people 99% of the time) and charger availability - i.e. not being able to charge at home as no drive.
Can't believe the number of haters who trot out the same list of falsehoods.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I would happily have an EV if someone would give me one. But would just cost too much at the moment
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| pam w wrote: |
| I would happily have an EV if someone would give me one. But would just cost too much at the moment |
Cheaper EVs are incoming. The original projection was that EVs will be cheaper than ICE in 2027, but that was before the Russians invaded Ukraine and the current cost of living crisis, so who knows if that will happen. 2nd hand EVs are also coming down in price though.
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You know it makes sense.
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@pam w, I’d happily have a petrol Ferrari if someone would give me one, but at the moment they just cost too much 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Just finished my first ev trip from SW London to Tignes and back in a model Y. The super charger network, hotel destination charger (in tignes), and the autopilot on the smooth french motorway has made this trip much more relaxing than my previous one in a Lexus SUV.
The autopilot especially worked fantastically well in french autoroutes.
Overall electricity cost is about 40% of equivalent petrol.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Sign me up when I can recharge EV in 5 minutes and with fast charging station within 20 miles. That and comparable cost to ICE vehicles. I give it another vehicle cycle (5-10 years). Things are getting much better but not there yet. Right now EV's are perfect commuter vehicle but nothing more. For heavy duty/ on the road all day type of driving needs - GMC Denali for me 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@stuarth, that’s the classic “what if i need to buy a fridge on a bike, eh?” argument. Of course there are use cases (regular 400km+ long journeys, no charging infrastructure etc) where an EV would be completely unsuitable. But the point is those are unusual. This thread is about running an EV as a daily driver in the UK and a once or twice a year trip to the alps where with a bit of planning it is eminently practical.
What if you wanted to transport 55 children to school and back? I think I’ll use my British Leyland Routemaster bus…
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| andy from embsay wrote: |
@stuarth, that’s the classic “what if i need to buy a fridge on a bike, eh?” argument. Of course there are use cases (regular 400km+ long journeys, no charging infrastructure etc) where an EV would be completely unsuitable. But the point is those are unusual. This thread is about running an EV as a daily driver in the UK and a once or twice a year trip to the alps where with a bit of planning it is eminently practical.
What if you wanted to transport 55 children to school and back? I think I’ll use my British Leyland Routemaster bus… |
Exactly right.
These are the same arguments that people (probably in similar areas) promoted the use of a horse and cart when petrol engines first came about.
It may well end up that those sorts of customers are better served with things like hydrogen powered ICE vehicles in future.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@stuarth, That's exactly the non-falsehood I mentioned. I think you've proved my point about haters 
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@ski3, 
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Hey admin. Is it possible to prune out the pro/anti EV generic chat out from the discussion of the actual EV route to the alps?
On the subject…. Am seeing lots of Ionity chargers on the southbound route but they seem to be scarce on the northbound side?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| jamescollings wrote: |
Hey admin. Is it possible to prune out the pro/anti EV generic chat out from the discussion of the actual EV route to the alps?
On the subject…. Am seeing lots of Ionity chargers on the southbound route but they seem to be scarce on the northbound side? |
Why? there are valid points why not to drive. I am an EV owner & would not drive for the sake of a weekly trip. It is cheaper to fly to austria & get a train to a resort that it would be just for a return crossing the channel.
Add on overnight hotels (I would probably need at least 2x outbound & 1x inbound), wasted time waiting for the car to charge, etc.
On the other hand, if I was going somewhere that was a pain to get to - like a lot of smaller french resorts or going for a longer trip, then I would consider driving.
There are pros & cons people would need to weigh up, the same way they would with an ICE car.
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@stuarth, Eminently sensible. Haveing covered 2000km's each way just over a week ago. I think that journey in an EV would have been a nightmare. I stop each way for a 10 minute refuel. About to do something similar in another week or two. Tank and a bit of diesel each way. BTW Have'nt Ford now stoped production of the 150 lightning due to having thousands unsold?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@stuarth, Eminently sensible. Haveing covered 2000km's each way just over a week ago. I think that journey in an EV would have been a nightmare. I stop each way for a 10 minute refuel. About to do something similar in another week or two. Tank and a bit of diesel each way. BTW Have'nt Ford now stoped production of the 150 lightning due to having thousands unsold?@luanb, @luanb,
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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Not if it’s leased and you’re getting tax and NI relief in the payments it’s not.
Why are you commenting on this thread, btw? You haven’t got an EV, you’d never get an EV, so why spend your time digging out Daily Mail articles? Go and find some snow and slide down it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thats because these vehicles move from a heavily subsidized market to an unsubsidized market.
I.e. majority of new wv buyers are doing it via EV car scheme where car payments are subtracted prior to tax. Which in many cases will be 40% savings.
For the second hand market this doesnt exist so large portion of demand falls away. For the most part it is the leasing companies that eat the depreciation, not consumers.
The good news is that there are plenty of EV bargains in the used market. Picked up a lovely 70 reg iPace for almost 1/3 of the original list price.
There is probably a better place to discuss this rather than this thread though.
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Poster: A snowHead
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That isn't what the article says though.
Its talking about the change in the price in a 1 year old car over the last 12 months. Which is primarily because a year ago you couldnt get hold of used or(or new) EV for love nor money so the price of used one was artificially high.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Depends who's doing the survey and where and what they look at!
Frinstance, car dealer magazine have published similar lists, this time for top ten least depreciating as well as top ten most depreciating...
https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/britains-10-fastest-and-slowest-depreciating-new-cars-revealed/222849
A Tesla Model 9 is 9th least depreciating, whereas the most depreciating are all ICE, worst being an Audi A8 Quattro... And don't even think about buying a Maserati if you expect it to be worth anything after a couple of weeks!
FWIW, I'll soon be driving to Vorarlberg from Shropshire, and you'll be pleased to hear I'm taking my Peugeot estate rather than my Tesla Model 3. This is nothing to do with getting there an hour or two quicker as I'd stop every couple of hundred miles anyway - and we're taking a mellow trip with overnights in Kent and Strasbourg on the way out so charging time is simply not an issue. The reason the Tesla isn't coming is simply because it's a lease car with service plan, and the lease company wouldn't replace the tyres with all-seasons when the time came despite cost being about the same. I'd have preferred Tezzie as it'd be cheaper and more comfy even though the Peugeot has averaged about 58mpg over the last year...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| andy from embsay wrote: |
Not if it’s leased and you’re getting tax and NI relief in the payments it’s not.
Why are you commenting on this thread, btw? You haven’t got an EV, you’d never get an EV, so why spend your time digging out Daily Mail articles? Go and find some snow and slide down it. |
Not worth engaging with him in my view. I've only bitten the bait when he started throwing insults about driving milk floats and weak bladders around. I don't think anyone has ever claimed that driving huge distances using an EV is faster than an ICE, just that it's doable and tolerable with the right mindset and a bit of planning. As to depreciations, there's a cost of living crisis on and EVs are expensive. I reckon there are a lot of EVs hitting the end of their leases and people just aren't keen on taking more debts.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Old Man Of Lech, isn’t massive depreciation a good thing to be welcomed ? Surely us private individuals only buy second hand cars.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@stuarth, If you read properly, I stated
| Quote: |
| The only issue I can see with EVs is the range (but that's actually only an issue for a small number of people 99% of the time) and charger availability - i.e. not being able to charge at home as no drive. |
So I'm agreeing with that point. I'm not gloating at all - I always fly to the alps anyway
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| stuarth wrote: |
What I am saying is that my F150 is eminently better suited to making long distance drives to go skiing and does not require "heroic" planning to find a petrol station even in the most remote places (and yes even for an ICE it is remote enough that there are signs reminding you to fill up!). |
You can charge your EV anywhere there's electricity, which is more likely to be more readily available than a petrol station. Very slow charging true, but the option is there.
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@stuarth, The thread title is about driving to the Alps, your experience driving an F150 in Canada doesn't really help with this.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@MorningGory,
The problem is that for the specific use case of the title of this thread, range and availability of charging are currently _exactly_ the problem.
Yes, you can make it work, but that doesn't make it ideal.
My neighbour drove the same journey I did to revelstoke a few years back in their Tesla and made it fine (though there are other issues with smaller vehicles on roads in bc) and the Tesla app made it all quite smooth. I still think my journey was a lot more straightforward.
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| stuarth wrote: |
@andy from embsay, "fridge on a bike argument" 
I'm not the one saying if you have a hammer everything is a nail!
I could theoretically go skiing on my bike, but not sure I'd spend 12 pages trying to convince anyone that it was a good idea. |
Every time on social media someone suggests that more people should cycle short journeys some melt pops up to say “ah! But what if I want to carry a fridge? What then??” - your argument about driving 2000km in Canada is the same thing - saying a particular vehicle isn’t suitable for one specific set of circumstances doesn’t mean that it’s not suitable for others (in this case, driving to the Alps). As with that other bod, I’m not sure why you’re contributing to this thread.
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FAQ
) of batteries up a big hill in the cold, I'd still have top stop in Kamloops or Kelowna for a considerable time, and I'm not totally sure of the charging network in some of the more rural parts of BC. Instead I'll fill up my 135l tank and not worry about that! 
)
