@davidof, understood. So what is the situation wrt liability if you are involved in an accident with summer tyres on snow?
Don't know about France, but in Switzerland the insurance company can deny payment due to 'gross negligence' as you suggest, unless you have 'gross negligence' insurance as an add on. That of course applies to Swiss cars, I really don't know the situation for non-Swiss insured cars.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Seems funny that you can actually have 'gross negligence' as an insurance add-on...
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@mooney058, i have not recommended using summer tyres. I have simply noted that plenty of visitors to the french alps use summer tyres and most of them are perfectly fine most of the time. I fail to see what is so controversial about that. Statement of fact.
I suspect that problems last Saturday included those caused by drivers on winter tyres who left it too late to put chains on. Inevitably one finds oneself stopped in places with minimal traction. Steep hills with lots of snow on the road. The drivers who declare confidently that they would never need chains worry me. I was astonished that despite the forecasts our ski busses didn't put their chains on till Saturday night after having to cancel them in the afternoon even though plenty of ordinary cars with chains were getting about Ok.
@mooney058, i have not recommended using summer tyres. I have simply noted that plenty of visitors to the french alps use summer tyres and most of them are perfectly fine most of the time. I fail to see what is so controversial about that. Statement of fact.
I suspect that problems last Saturday included those caused by drivers on winter tyres who left it too late to put chains on. Inevitably one finds oneself stopped in places with minimal traction. Steep hills with lots of snow on the road. The drivers who declare confidently that they would never need chains worry me. I was astonished that despite the forecasts our ski busses didn't put their chains on till Saturday night after having to cancel them in the afternoon even though plenty of ordinary cars with chains were getting about Ok.
The same way I suspect that many who drink and drive get home most of the time, it is few who do not get home safe worry me. You can do many things in life and be perfectly fine while taking risks. As I said, I am fine if you take risks that only concerns yourself, but not those surrounding you.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@mooney058,
Quote:
Most of the time summer tyres are ok - sorry, this I can not agree with, because it is not in winter. It is not only snow, its the low temperatures.
I take it you have equally little sympathy for the many drivers who drive around Britain in winter in low temperatures without winter tyres.
@mooney058, i have not recommended using summer tyres. I have simply noted that plenty of visitors to the french alps use summer tyres and most of them are perfectly fine most of the time. I fail to see what is so controversial about that. Statement of fact.
I suspect that problems last Saturday included those caused by drivers on winter tyres who left it too late to put chains on. Inevitably one finds oneself stopped in places with minimal traction. Steep hills with lots of snow on the road. The drivers who declare confidently that they would never need chains worry me. I was astonished that despite the forecasts our ski busses didn't put their chains on till Saturday night after having to cancel them in the afternoon even though plenty of ordinary cars with chains were getting about Ok.
The same way I suspect that many who drink and drive get home most of the time, it is few who do not get home safe worry me. You can do many things in life and be perfectly fine while taking risks. As I said, I am fine if you take risks that only concerns yourself, but not those surrounding you.
Yep, this pretty much nails it. IMHO it's total irresponsbility to go driving around in the mtns in the winter with summer tyres. I see it every single weekend when I go into my own local ski areas. Cars in ditches, most of them are AWD, or 4WD vehicles without proper tyres. (Not to mention they drive like the roads are dry) Meanwhile the family in the little Ford Fiesta with 4 snow tires, or chains on goes happily up the mtn!
Here in the States they had a little snipet on the local news channel about the transfer day chaos going on in France. Hope all is well going forward for the rest of the season, and may the snow fall on non-transfer days here on out.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
I wouldn't contemplate going near the Alps with summer tyres. Really!
Happy to drive the motorways of France and the UK at high speeds and on winter tyres not ideal for the purpose though, I see.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Looking online am thinking of upgrading to Thule T9 easy fit, but the video make it look too easy fitting to be true - has anyone tried these?
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Lizzard wrote:
Quote:
I wouldn't contemplate going near the Alps with summer tyres. Really!
Happy to drive the motorways of France and the UK at high speeds and on winter tyres not ideal for the purpose though, I see.
wtf are you talking about? I don't drive on the motorways of France and UK. I live in Bavaria, and my winter tyres are rated at 210Km/H so they are quite ok for purpose.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
T Bar wrote:
@mooney058,
Quote:
Most of the time summer tyres are ok - sorry, this I can not agree with, because it is not in winter. It is not only snow, its the low temperatures.
I take it you have equally little sympathy for the many drivers who drive around Britain in winter in low temperatures without winter tyres.
I don't have much sympathy for them. As someone on this thread reminded us winter tyres would be appropriate in the UK for, on average, over 100 days per year.
A large number of winter accidents just wouldn't happen on winter tyres. I use them and as you say, have no sympathy for any numpty who crashes just because they are using inappropriate and unsafe summer tyres in winter. In the UK or continent it's irrelevant.
Just thinking about it further, it's as irresponsible as driving on bald tyres in the summer in the rain.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
emwmarine wrote:
A large number of winter accidents just wouldn't happen on winter tyres. I use them and as you say, have no sympathy for any numpty who crashes just because they are using inappropriate and unsafe summer tyres in winter. In the UK or continent it's irrelevant.
Probably a huge amount more caused by crap driving!! and if summer tyres were 'unsafe in winter' I think the authorities/ins co's would have done something....
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I have winter tyres on my car all year round. As yet I haven't found an adequate solution for buying/storing/transporting an extra set of wheels/tyres and getting them changed twice a year. Winter tyres do seem to wear a little quicker (around 25k per pair of fronts) and cost a little more (£85 each) but on days like today it can mean the difference between getting to work or not.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
martinm wrote:
emwmarine wrote:
A large number of winter accidents just wouldn't happen on winter tyres. I use them and as you say, have no sympathy for any numpty who crashes just because they are using inappropriate and unsafe summer tyres in winter. In the UK or continent it's irrelevant.
Probably a huge amount more caused by crap driving!! and if summer tyres were 'unsafe in winter' I think the authorities/ins co's would have done something....
If you read the link it shows that 48% accidents in the winter are caused by skidding.
When braking distances are twice that with sumer tyres on cold wet roads then that does count as unsafe.
Your touching faith in the authorities doing something sensible pre-supposes that they would put forward a policy that would make any political party unelectable. Forcing people to shell out on winter tyres.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
martinm wrote:
emwmarine wrote:
A large number of winter accidents just wouldn't happen on winter tyres. I use them and as you say, have no sympathy for any numpty who crashes just because they are using inappropriate and unsafe summer tyres in winter. In the UK or continent it's irrelevant.
Probably a huge amount more caused by crap driving!! and if summer tyres were 'unsafe in winter' I think the authorities/ins co's would have done something....
It's probably just a question of time till the UK insurance companies start to pull the 'gross negligence' card in order to try not to pay up, so sooner or later you're going to have to get proper low temperature tyres for your car or face some pretty humongous costs if you get involved in any kind of accident. I know the German insurers would do that and so would the Swiss given what has been said above.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
queen bodecia wrote:
I have winter tyres on my car all year round. As yet I haven't found an adequate solution for buying/storing/transporting an extra set of wheels/tyres and getting them changed twice a year. Winter tyres do seem to wear a little quicker (around 25k per pair of fronts) and cost a little more (£85 each) but on days like today it can mean the difference between getting to work or not.
I understand that braking distances in non freezing conditions is extended but in very hot weather (say 90 F +) do they start to stick to the road -ie sort of melt?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@muddewater, I live in the East Midlands, 90F is unheard of...
But in all seriousness I have never had any issues using my winter tyres year round.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
As the optimum temperature seems to be about 7 degrees or below for using winter tyres, then what about driving from the UK to the French Alps in Easter (Germany, Austria and Switzerland still in their regulatory winter tyre period). Most of that distance will be considerably higher than 7 degrees, would driving that distance at autoroute speeds, at say 12-15 degrees, significantly damage winter tyres?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@queen bodecia, in the East Midlands winter tyres can be the difference between getting to work or not? Really?
I live in a village in the Dales, and three years ago we had packed snow on the roads for about three weeks - absolutely unprecedented. I was driving a RWD Jag at the time with big fat summer tyres. Got to work every day.
I'm absolutely convinced that if I had somewhere to store a spare set of wheels (I don't) and I drove to the Alps (I don't) then I would almost certainly get a set - but it's getting almost "helmet thread"-like when people suggest criminal irresponsibility for not putting on winter tyres - I've driven for thirty years in the lakes, the dales and even drove out of the Chamonix valley in the epic storm that caught Jamie Andrew and Jamie Fisher on the Dru, and with careful use of chains I've never got stuck or crashed.
@jubnut, We drive to GM at Easter with the winter tyres on, and they do wear a bit quicker, esp the fronts but not much. The car does not seem quite as planted as with the summer tyres on, but that is mainly because they are narrower than the summer wheels and tyres and the car is a bit quick and heavy (elderly rs6 avant quattro)
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@andy from embsay, absolutely. Today and yesterday the air temperature was less than -5ºC when I left the house to go to work. The roads were covered with a combination of frozen snow and ice/frost and my journey to work uses several untreated roads and steep gradients.
Average snow cover here is 18 days per winter. The winter of 2010-2011 was 62 days. This winter has already seen 6 days.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 30-12-14 20:32; edited 1 time in total
Winter tyres perform much better than summer below 7°C and only marginally worse in higher temperatures, which is why some large Swiss companies just leave them on all year and save storage/changing costs. I have never heard of any problems with motorway driving.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@andy from embsay, where I often work, in the villages around Milton Keynes, we are often snowed in and people can't get off their drives as they are on hills
After all it is free
After all it is free
holidayloverxx wrote:
@andy from embsay, where I often work, in the villages around Milton Keynes, we are often snowed in and people can't get off their drives as they are on hills
Having lived in and around Milton Keynes for most of my adult life, i find the majority of people who "can't get off their drive" are the same group of people who would ring in sick with a slight cold....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
welshskier wrote:
Winter tyres perform much better than summer below 7°C and only marginally worse in higher temperatures, which is why some large Swiss companies just leave them on all year and save storage/changing costs. I have never heard of any problems with motorway driving.
It's not only about the compound used. Summer tyres are better suited to deal with rain at higher speeds, aquaplanning, etc.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@holidayloverxx, I live in glorious Essex well the London suburbs, many of my neighbours have been stranded for days on their drives or undable to leave the road, there is a slight incline, as a helpful neighbour I drive to the grit box (in my front wheel drive car) and provide relief to the community.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Tue 30-12-14 20:59; edited 1 time in total
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@ansta1, doesn't bother me when they log in from home and I can see if they are active....
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@radar, I too live in Essex...but in the flat as a pancake bit.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@holidayloverxx, bothers me when i have driven past their house to get to the office. Especially when they could have walked in to the shack in 20 minutes at most.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
emwmarine wrote:
If you read the link it shows that 48% accidents in the winter are caused by skidding.
When braking distances are twice that with sumer tyres on cold wet roads then that does count as unsafe.
So leave more stopping distance = not crap driving
and there were reports (not ion the DM) of insurance companies refusing to cough up BECAUSE folks were on winter - i.e. non-std tyres, although I believe this has been sorted.
I'd personally consider winter tyres in the UK if I did more miles (very low mileage) and actually had somewhere to store a spare set!! Luckily I have a mate with the same car who has a set of winters I could borrow if I were to drive to the snow - which is unliklely !
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@ansta1to be fair it's a damn sight more than 20 mins walk from a lot of places.we are expected to walk for up to an hour.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
We live in Northumberland and want to put winter tyres on our car as my husband travels the little villages in winter and it can get quite slippery plus we drive to the alps most years. However as his car is a company car the insurance company will not allow us to do it as it is classed as a modification so winter tyres are not an options for us - trying Eurostar this year as the road from bourg to Arc 1950 can get snowy and he's sick of me panicking about skidding (we alway have chains incase needed)
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
holidayloverxx wrote:
@ansta1to be fair it's a damn sight more than 20 mins walk from a lot of places.we are expected to walk for up to an hour.
I realise that, 20 minutes is a think a reasonable distance to walk if required (medical condition aside).
It's also evident that people who can't get into work on "snow days" seem to be able to get to the shops, pub, friends etc etc.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@ansta1, agreed..that's why we are expected to walk up to an hour....exactly how long it takes me from liverpool St during a tube strike!
Shops pubs and friends are likely to be only a few hundred yards where I'm talking about.
I have winter tyres on my car all year round. As yet I haven't found an adequate solution for buying/storing/transporting an extra set of wheels/tyres and getting them changed twice a year. Winter tyres do seem to wear a little quicker (around 25k per pair of fronts) and cost a little more (£85 each) but on days like today it can mean the difference between getting to work or not.
I understand that braking distances in non freezing conditions is extended but in very hot weather (say 90 F +) do they start to stick to the road -ie sort of melt?
The tires won't stick to the road, but what happens if you are driving winter tyres in hot conditions, such as 90F, and at high speeds, say over 120km/h, and for long distance under load, that's when you have the possibility of tyre failure. Heat gets trapped in the grooves/sipes of winter tyres, and that causes the casing, ie, the sidewalls to start absorbing the heat. The hotest part of the tire will be the tread, so you will get a squishy feeling when you corner, and a floaty feeling as the heat is transfered into the tyre's steel belts, the air inside the tire will expand. That's when you can end up with blowouts or cap failures.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
For the record I'm a winter tyre user but back to
OT. About ten years ago one February driving from St Anton to St foye, we got caught in
terrible traffic from in think Annecy all the way to bsm.
It was around 20 degree celcius, so winter tyre and chains were not a factor, I guess shear weight of traffic (swot)
Or an accident. I've also been in a coach for 7 hoursv from Lyon to tignes,that was due to snowfall. Been driving about today in snowy
Conditions with nearly new wnters and 4motion, stuck to the road like glue, though I try not too get over confident particularly downhill.
And I think I mentioned this a few pages back, having driven over, and back the Col du Lautaret on Sat and experienced some pretty grim conditions, in that it was so cold I and along with others were having major issues with wiper blades freezing up and having to stop to clear them so I could see out through the windscreen.
Next day went to investigate my wipers and one had sheared off with the ice feckin the mounting.
Today, Tuesday went to the local VW garage to be told as it was a UK vehicle the wiper blade unit was not stocked in France as the blade unit is for right hand side only!!!
Mechanics said they could do nothing. So I've switched blade units over and taken the other apart and bodged it back together again with super glue and have registered with RAC breakdown as well as speaking to local dealer back in UK and I'll probably end up getting new blade sent out to a mate coming out in a couple of weeks.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Tue 30-12-14 22:15; edited 1 time in total
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Ooooooh - thanks! ( Husband thinking hilarious that I ma taking an interest in a tyre thread )
After all it is free
After all it is free
@shawaszk,
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Weathercam, next time I replace my wipers I'll keep the old ones just in case, even if my local vw garage in Austria had them they'd no doubt cost a fortune.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Snowmageddon on busiest transfer day of the year thread or merits of winter tyres in uk thread?
I think the latter would be a good reference for people, but it will get lost in the Snowmcgeddon thread.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
wtf are you talking about? I don't drive on the motorways of France and UK. I live in Bavaria, and my winter tyres are rated at 210Km/H so they are quite ok for purpose.
