 Poster: A snowHead
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Of course the flights will still operate. The airlines will do very well from Austrians seeking to avoid the lockdown.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| @buchanan101, all Ryanair tickets are non cancellable and non refundable. If you don't want to travel you just don't turn up. I managed to claim on insurance last year but not covered this year |
Er… no
They do flexible fares, and you can change normal tickets for admittedly a quite expensive £45 per person per leg.
https://help.ryanair.com/hc/en-gb/articles/360017825378-Changing-a-Flight
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Austrian Seagull wrote: |
| Of course the flights will still operate. The airlines will do very well from Austrians seeking to avoid the lockdown. |
Most flights stopped in previous lockdowns.
Most flights in to Salzburg or Innsbruck carry skiers.
Most flights will stop; BA will not fly 4 times in to Innsbruck on Saturdays and 5 times on Sundays. They may fly one and rebook people. The flight I picked up in March 2020 at Innsbruck to return to U.K. had had 4 people flying in.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| buchanan101 wrote: |
| Austrian Seagull wrote: |
| Of course the flights will still operate. The airlines will do very well from Austrians seeking to avoid the lockdown. |
Most flights stopped in previous lockdowns.
Most flights in to Salzburg or Innsbruck carry skiers.
Most flights will stop; BA will not fly 4 times in to Innsbruck on Saturdays and 5 times on Sundays. They may fly one and rebook people. The flight I picked up in March 2020 at Innsbruck to return to U.K. had had 4 people flying in. |
Flights stopped because of travel bans and restrictions. These haven’t been reintroduced so far. It’s quite possible that some undersold flights will be cancelled or consolidated, but anyone wanting to travel will be able to, as it stands.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Chris_n wrote: |
@holidayloverxx, do you have secondary residence on your apartment, if you do you can still travel and be ready for everything opening up  |
I have a Meldzettel but no residency. I have no interest in going under current circumstances. I was only out for a week then planned to go again on 3rd Jan. I'm planning to earn some money instead
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@buchanan101, ok...I'll give you that but if there is no flight ban the flights will operate and people with non flex fares won't be able to change or cancel. I don't really care
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| buchanan101 wrote: |
| ski_free wrote: |
| buchanan101 wrote: |
| My hotel in Obergurgl is saying they can’t open until the 13th.. I think someone has the maths wrong. I will see if hotels in Innsbruck are open on 12th - no BA flights on the 13th. |
You could try Munich, Salzburg or Memmingen instead. About a 3h drive from those locations (Memm 2h 45m, though Ryan air, not BA but dirt cheap). Car rental from those places should also be cheaper than Innsbruck |
Salzburg no good for BA on Mondays. Munich could be an option. May book - can always cancel. SnowHeads have tried to dissuade me from using Munich before due to heavy traffic in to Austria… |
That's normally on weekends, due to day and weekend trippers from Munich. 13th is a Monday, so should be fine on that front.
Another alternative is to fly out to Munich on the 12th, stay a night in a hotel on the border Fuessen or Garmisch, then get an early start so you can hit the slopes in Obergurgl at 9am on the 13th. I'd imagine you'll find empty slopes with hotels having been closed for the night, and Obergurgl doesn't get many day trippers. Situation in Bavaria is quite fluid too, so could see lockdowns there too, so good to book things that are easily cancelable.
Heading to Obergurgl myself on the 17th, so hoping everything works out. Will probably book something in Davos with booking.com and free cancellation as far out as possible just in case.
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Can get early Avios business class flights out but I don’t want to be getting an early flight back - would have to leave Obergurgl at 5am, so return is £400. (Fly club for the ski carriage etc). The car hire prices are absurd.., £350+ whereas current Innsbruck booking is £230, but no good… Will look at your suggestion for travelling the day before.
Booking.com free cancellation seems to still need a couple of weeks…
Obergurgl usually has pretty empty slopes though…
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Maybe irrelevent for some people in light of today's announcements, but for those that still make the journey:
Drove out to Austria 18/19 Nov 21. Eurotunnel requires you to upload the usual API plus a copy of the French "Honour" form. At the French Passport check you are required to show proof of vaccination but no additional request to see a hard copy of said "Honour" form.
No issues the otherside, drove off as normal. Stopped overnight in Brussells with friends. Mask wear on entry to restaurant. Restaurant asked to see proof of vaccination and NHS COVID pass on phone was accepted by their QR scanner.
Drove from Belgium to Austria on 19 Nov 21. No checks on route crossing borders. You can purchase food and drinks at German Service Stations, wearing masks, but if you want to eat indoors you have to show proof of vaccination.
Arrived in Flachau. Ate out and was required to wear mask on entry and show proof of vaccination. Obviously operating on the 2G rules. Will post on lockdown restrictions next week.
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This is all good and well, if Austrian politicians will keep their word and not lengthen the lock down. Two days they were saying that lock downs for vaccinated is not an option...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@RedandWhiteFlachau, thanks, appreciate the post……still remaining positive we’ll be driving out on 24th Dec via Dover/Calais
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Chris_n, where do you see the reduction to 7 months validity for double jabbed? I see it’s been reduced to 9 months
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@Origin_Al, that was last week, need to keep up  . It was announced yesterday along with the lockdown and reduction to 4 months for boosters. It won't be on any official websites yet because the regulation has not yet been published.
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You know it makes sense.
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| sugardaddy wrote: |
| This is all good and well, if Austrian politicians will keep their word and not lengthen the lock down. Two days they were saying that lock downs for vaccinated is not an option... |
Whether the lockdown is extended is down to the infection rates not the politicians. If more people had listened to the politicians and got themselves vaccinated we wouldn‘t be in this position.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Chris_n, cheers, yeah quite often behind the times, better get the booster booked!
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Poster: A snowHead
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A bit of history shared with me by Mrs Radar, Austria has made vaccination compulsory before, in 1948 they made Smallpox vaccination compulsory by law.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@radar, if you look into the history of Smallpox you will find vaccination was mandatory in many places including the requirement in UK for babies to be vaccinated within 3 months of their birth.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Chris_n, indeed it was, people forget about smallpox / polio and a few others too.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Flights not cancelled? If an airline does not cancel, to send an aircraft, empty or full, an airline has costs to pay irrespective of loading. Airlines such as Ryanair employ crew on 'zero hours' contracts, so no flight no crew costs. Then the airline has to pay for fuel, take off and landing fees, apron parking, airport facility fees, base charges for passenger and baggage handling. All these costs have to be absorbed by the airline, as I say whether the plane is full or not.
And remember airlines are just coming out a prolonged period of losses.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@davidthornton, yebbut they keep the fares paid if people choose not to travel which more than cover those costs surely...less fuel with lower payload
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| @davidthornton, yebbut they keep the fares paid if people choose not to travel which more than cover those costs surely...less fuel with lower payload |
Absolutely. And fewer cabin crew.
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Heard nothing from easyjet but our 11th Dec flight to SZG has now disappeared from their online booking calendar... 
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The concern in my estimation for anyone hoping to travel in December is what the exit strategy for this move will be. History and experience of this pandemic tells us 3 weeks is simply not long enough for cases and hospitalizations to go down, this normally has been taking 6 weeks or more. Austria currently panicking with 500+ patients in ICU, unfortunately I think highly likely there will still be 500+ patients in ICU, on 13 December, so politically how do you now remove restrictions when there has not been any improvement, or even a worsening of hospital situation which i think is likely as situation will get worse before it gets better? Even if there is massive uptake of vaccination, it still takes 4 weeks from 1st Pfizer dose before you are considered protected, and they won't be able to vaccinate everyone on d1.
I don't understand situation in Austria, it strikes me as late night rash move (I and I worry that bringing restrictions for fully vaxxed may decrease incentive for some non vaxxed to become vaxxed at all), but I think they are going to find it hard to credibly release these restrictions till after Christmas
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| buchanan101 wrote: |
| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| @buchanan101, all Ryanair tickets are non cancellable and non refundable. If you don't want to travel you just don't turn up. I managed to claim on insurance last year but not covered this year |
Er… no
They do flexible fares, and you can change normal tickets for admittedly a quite expensive £45 per person per leg.
https://help.ryanair.com/hc/en-gb/articles/360017825378-Changing-a-Flight |
Ah but what they don't tell you is that when they price the flights you want to change to, that'll be at the full full price, even if newly booking for the same flights (i.e. start a new session and search for the same flights) are heavily discounted. We got f%$*ed by this first lockdown, in theory offered free flight changes but no matter what we tried to move to involved hefty additional costs. We ended up abandoning our flights as we weren't going to risk good money after bad. Sneaky bas&^%ds
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I can't believe that people think if passenger numbers drop off a cliff that the airlines will still send all their planes.
BA will NOT send 4 planes on Saturdays and 5 on Sundays to Innsbruck in the next 3 weeks - I will put money on it. They'll rearrange passengers in to fewer planes; and there will be very few people wanting to travel. Easyjet either don't yet fly to Salzburg or Innsbruck or have pulled their flights as none available for a few weeks. Ryanair are selling flights to Salzburg at very low prices -so they'll be pretty empty anyway- I guess they are the airline most likely to still fly most of their planes
TUI planes will probably not fly at all.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| mountainaddict wrote: |
| Heard nothing from easyjet but our 11th Dec flight to SZG has now disappeared from their online booking calendar... |
So they HAVE pulled Innsbruck and Salzburg flights - was just looking myself and thought that they may not have started yet.
11th is a definite no for hotel accommodation anyway - the only question is whether the 20 days run to the 11th or 12th inclusive.
In the last 24 hours I've booked a back up BA flight to Innsbruck on the 12th and a back up to Munich on the 13th (with Avios!)... I fully expect BA to be cancelling the one on the 11th so I don't have to pay the £35 cancellation.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Austrian Seagull wrote: |
| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| @davidthornton, yebbut they keep the fares paid if people choose not to travel which more than cover those costs surely...less fuel with lower payload |
Absolutely. And fewer cabin crew. |
As if!! One fewer in the cockpit I suppose. Also just half a tank. Even MOL wouldn't try that. 
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| dharnett wrote: |
| buchanan101 wrote: |
| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| @buchanan101, all Ryanair tickets are non cancellable and non refundable. If you don't want to travel you just don't turn up. I managed to claim on insurance last year but not covered this year |
Er… no
They do flexible fares, and you can change normal tickets for admittedly a quite expensive £45 per person per leg.
https://help.ryanair.com/hc/en-gb/articles/360017825378-Changing-a-Flight |
Ah but what they don't tell you is that when they price the flights you want to change to, that'll be at the full full price, even if newly booking for the same flights (i.e. start a new session and search for the same flights) are heavily discounted. We got f%$*ed by this first lockdown, in theory offered free flight changes but no matter what we tried to move to involved hefty additional costs. We ended up abandoning our flights as we weren't going to risk good money after bad. Sneaky bas&^%ds |
Sneaky indeed. I haven't used Ryanair for years - usually plan months in advance and book BA Club on Avios; extremely good value (especially as the two hold items per passenger means free ski carriage). And much easier to cancel, change etc...
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You know it makes sense.
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| peanuthead wrote: |
The concern in my estimation for anyone hoping to travel in December is what the exit strategy for this move will be. History and experience of this pandemic tells us 3 weeks is simply not long enough for cases and hospitalizations to go down, this normally has been taking 6 weeks or more. Austria currently panicking with 500+ patients in ICU, unfortunately I think highly likely there will still be 500+ patients in ICU, on 13 December, so politically how do you now remove restrictions when there has not been any improvement, or even a worsening of hospital situation which i think is likely as situation will get worse before it gets better? Even if there is massive uptake of vaccination, it still takes 4 weeks from 1st Pfizer dose before you are considered protected, and they won't be able to vaccinate everyone on d1.
I don't understand situation in Austria, it strikes me as late night rash move (I and I worry that bringing restrictions for fully vaxxed may decrease incentive for some non vaxxed to become vaxxed at all), but I think they are going to find it hard to credibly release these restrictions till after Christmas |
Tend to agree - I realise that my plans to get out on 12th or 13th rather than 11th Dec are mostly in hope (and desperation to actually ski).
One of the political parties only bought in to full lockdown for 20 days if it was only for 20 days with lockdown for unvaccinated continuing; so politics will play a large part. They may be happy with a flattening of the curve...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| peanuthead wrote: |
| The concern in my estimation for anyone hoping to travel in December is what the exit strategy for this move will be. History and experience of this pandemic tells us 3 weeks is simply not long enough for cases and hospitalizations to go down, this normally has been taking 6 weeks or more. Austria currently panicking with 500+ patients in ICU, unfortunately I think highly likely there will still be 500+ patients in ICU, on 13 December, so politically how do you now remove restrictions when there has not been any improvement, or even a worsening of hospital situation which i think is likely as situation will get worse before it gets better? Even if there is massive uptake of vaccination, it still takes 4 weeks from 1st Pfizer dose before you are considered protected, and they won't be able to vaccinate everyone on d1. |
All good points. The restrictions will still apply to the unvaccinated after 12th December, so at that point everybody out and about should have had 2 doses. I believe 2nd doses are being given at 4 weeks now, so those that rushed to join the queue last week should be eligible and have a reasonable level of protection.
| Quote: |
| I don't understand situation in Austria, it strikes me as late night rash move (I and I worry that bringing restrictions for fully vaxxed may decrease incentive for some non vaxxed to become vaxxed at all), but I think they are going to find it hard to credibly release these restrictions till after Christmas |
The decreased incentive is the reason we now have compulsory vaccination. Without that, some of the governors wouldn't sign off on a lockdown for vaccinated people. Unfortunately, you could well argue that the incentive decreased some months ago when Kurz declared the pandemic over 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| buchanan101 wrote: |
| peanuthead wrote: |
The concern in my estimation for anyone hoping to travel in December is what the exit strategy for this move will be. History and experience of this pandemic tells us 3 weeks is simply not long enough for cases and hospitalizations to go down, this normally has been taking 6 weeks or more. Austria currently panicking with 500+ patients in ICU, unfortunately I think highly likely there will still be 500+ patients in ICU, on 13 December, so politically how do you now remove restrictions when there has not been any improvement, or even a worsening of hospital situation which i think is likely as situation will get worse before it gets better? Even if there is massive uptake of vaccination, it still takes 4 weeks from 1st Pfizer dose before you are considered protected, and they won't be able to vaccinate everyone on d1.
I don't understand situation in Austria, it strikes me as late night rash move (I and I worry that bringing restrictions for fully vaxxed may decrease incentive for some non vaxxed to become vaxxed at all), but I think they are going to find it hard to credibly release these restrictions till after Christmas |
Tend to agree - I realise that my plans to get out on 12th or 13th rather than 11th Dec are mostly in hope (and desperation to actually ski).
One of the political parties only bought in to full lockdown for 20 days if it was only for 20 days with lockdown for unvaccinated continuing; so politics will play a large part. They may be happy with a flattening of the curve... |
Remember Austria has a coalition government so one party alone cannot decide policy. One of the parties was very vocal about only agreeing to a lockdown for all if compulsory vaccination was brought in. I do think they will open as they say after all it is reported to be 80% unvaccinated in hospital and most I have talked to (vaccinated) are ok with 20 days but would not be happy if it was extended.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just wish they’d calculate the 20 days correctly so I don’t have to go via Munich on the 13th…
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Scarlet, got it
Perhaps this will turn out to be a well timed master intervention by Austria, to for once and for all get on top of the pandemic, and by early 2022 ski holidays will be happening as normal and Austria being held up as example to rest of world, let's hope so anyway.
Still I think massive uncertainty for month of December. They won't eant to repeat the mistake of declaring pandemic over on Dec 13th!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| buchanan101 wrote: |
| Just wish they’d calculate the 20 days correctly so I don’t have to go via Munich on the 13th… |
The news this morning declared two, maybe three different dates across its articles. No wonder the pandemic is such a mess when people can't cope with basic counting!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| peanuthead wrote: |
The concern in my estimation for anyone hoping to travel in December is what the exit strategy for this move will be. History and experience of this pandemic tells us 3 weeks is simply not long enough for cases and hospitalizations to go down, this normally has been taking 6 weeks or more. Austria currently panicking with 500+ patients in ICU, unfortunately I think highly likely there will still be 500+ patients in ICU, on 13 December, so politically how do you now remove restrictions when there has not been any improvement, or even a worsening of hospital situation which i think is likely as situation will get worse before it gets better? Even if there is massive uptake of vaccination, it still takes 4 weeks from 1st Pfizer dose before you are considered protected, and they won't be able to vaccinate everyone on d1.
I don't understand situation in Austria, it strikes me as late night rash move (I and I worry that bringing restrictions for fully vaxxed may decrease incentive for some non vaxxed to become vaxxed at all), but I think they are going to find it hard to credibly release these restrictions till after Christmas |
It’s complicated! Mostly by the politics at play, IMO.
One of the larger, minority opposition parties (FPO) are making political capital by active anti-vax campaigning. Plays well to the more rural areas where their support tends to be stronger and where there seems to be a greater reluctance to get vaccinated (not just Covid, either  ).
The government can’t be seen to do nothing in the face of low vaccination rates and rising infections, especially as they’ve repeatedly stated that the Winter season will go ahead this year. Other than getting things broadly right when Covid first broke, they’ve often appeared very much behind the curve with decision-making. And some quite muddled announcements/decisions. Right of centre main party and Green coalition partners don’t make the best of bed-fellows, necessarily.
Historically (Covid times), we’ve seen some decisions on measures to try and get on top of infection rate rises coming, typically, 2,3 or 4 weeks late. No exception this time around, either.
I expect that a hard lockdown for 3 weeks (just) will probably create enough of a firebreak to reduce pressure on intensive care beds to some some degree over the Christmas period, assuming larger family gatherings are limited (and that’s a big assumption), especially in the more rural areas….where, as said, the anti-vax folk tend to be more prevalent.
With so many surrounding countries in a similar position, re low vaxx rates and rising infection rates (think Bavaria, Czech Rep, Hungary etc) and the typical Advent Market and Skiing trips etc, there is a great nervousness (political and business) around where this is heading, of course. Throw in a healthy dose of “two tiered society” (vaccinated and non-vaccinated) divisions and it’s not hard to see why the “easiest” option was to lock everyone down and then start moving towards mandatory vaccination. All in all, it’s a bit of a bloody headache….and patience with the almost one-third of the population who are resisting vaccination is wearing VERY thin.
Anyway, sorry for the rambling post.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Cacciatore, no need to apologise, very interesting post
I think all over Europe we're nervous now. In Ireland with 90% of adults fully vaxxed (but EXTREMELY anaemic booster rollout) we have nearly 120 patients in ICU and the media seem to be softening us up for full lockdown once we hit 150. If Germany follows Austria's lead, I'm worried we end up seeing lockdowns all over Europe including here. But then maybe there's going to be no other choice because we can't seem to get the boosters out beyond snail's pace
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Communication around boosters hasn't been great. About a month ago, a chart was published showing when you could get your booster depending on which vaccine you started with and which risk/age category you are in. For a healthy adult who received an mRNA vaccine first time around, this was put at 9 months minimum, therefore the majority of the vaccinated population would not become eligible until between Feb and May 2022, due to when the bulk of their doses were given over the summer of 2021.
In the weeks since then, that 9 month period has been dropped initially to 6 months, and now 4 months for everybody, but with little explanation as to the benefits. We are simply told “you must take your booster asap” when only a few weeks ago we were told we must wait another 5 months. It also doesn't help that we are told “you can make an online booking with the vaccination centre (other side of town) or your GP (5 min walk) on our website here”, only I can't make an appointment with MY GP, because they probably still do all their online dealings via a fax machine (this is of little surprise to me).
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@Scarlet, if you phone your Hausarzt you will almost certainly be able to make an appointment. Many are now offering vaccinations without appointment, or you could attend an Impfbus. It is clear why the time interval has changed when studying the recent explosion of cases.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Mankei, Maybe, but now I don't know which vaccines they have available there, and booking by phone makes everything harder. The Impfbus is no more convenient than the big centre as we're not that rural. I'll sort it out, but it's not as easy as it should be by now, and when I hear of 1-2 hour queues and people being turned away at the drop-in sites, I wonder what difference it makes for me, as someone with a low risk of illness to wait a couple of months?
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The lessons from Israel who vaccinated before Europe and reached the decline in vaccination effectiveness in June - July were clear: boosters for all 5 months after the second dose, people loose the green pass 6 months after second dose if booster not taken and make unvaxxed pay for tests to go to work. Somehow the European politicians are trying to reinvent the wheel.
Compulsory vaccination in February will not save the ski season
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FAQ
