 Poster: A snowHead
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If you look across Europe then the Uk govt response seems about average, better than France who binned its strategic reserve of masks before the crisis (I wonder if they had Gordon Brown advising them?).
As for rejoining Europe. So far Europe has been conspicuous by its total absence in this crisis, not a good advert for a united front where every govt has had to pretty much go it alone and make its own decisions. Even the French finance minister was questioning the role of the EU after this crisis. I notice that the French health service has just placed a big order for respirators with the UK so at least cross border commerce is still working. France, Italy and Spain have severe shortages of health staff. France has asked everyone retired in the last 5 years to work - there is a state of emergency so by ask I mean "compel", it has also pressed student doctors and nurses into service.
If this continues into the autumn there is going to be a huge hit in terms of GDP. Some people on this forum are probably not going to be skiing for some considerable time. Same all over Europe as jobs are lost and taxes hiked to pay for everything.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 31-03-20 19:42; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| yeah, well they should have closed our borders as soon as China started locking down. You'd have cried your eyes out had they done that, though. |
These are complex issues, do you think the government should follow World Health Organisation guidelines? |
What I've noticed is that all those shitty countries, you know the ones that noone wants to go to, have very few case and even fewer deaths. |
Not yet.
Although I'm not sure that answered my question, about whether I should be crying my eyes out about cutting the UK off from the rest of the world. But hey ho. |
We should have shut the borders. You whinny leftists are all the same, let the virus in because shutting the borders is racist and anyway you want the virus here so you can blame it all on our government.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Gerry wrote: |
| We should have shut the borders. You whinny leftists are all the same, let the virus in because shutting the borders is racist and anyway you want the virus here so you can blame it all on our government. |
 And breath...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Gerry wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| yeah, well they should have closed our borders as soon as China started locking down. You'd have cried your eyes out had they done that, though. |
These are complex issues, do you think the government should follow World Health Organisation guidelines? |
What I've noticed is that all those shitty countries, you know the ones that noone wants to go to, have very few case and even fewer deaths. |
Not yet.
Although I'm not sure that answered my question, about whether I should be crying my eyes out about cutting the UK off from the rest of the world. But hey ho. |
We should have shut the borders. You whinny leftists are all the same, let the virus in because shutting the borders is racist and anyway you want the virus here so you can blame it all on our government. |
Are you my father in law?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Gerry wrote: |
| yeah, well they should have closed our borders as soon as China started locking down. You'd have cried your eyes out had they done that, though. |
Italy was the first country shutting off flights from China early.
Loads of good it did.
(one of the “vector” was a friendly Brit, who after a conference in Singapore, brought the virus with him to Italy on his ski holiday.
In retrospect, Italy might have been better off to close its border to Brits. Bye-bye Dolomites. Hope you last visit was good, at least you have some good memory)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| abc wrote: |
Italy was the first country shutting off flights from China early.
Loads of good it did.
(one of the “vector” was a friendly Brit, who after a conference in Singapore, brought the virus with him to Italy on his ski holiday.
In retrospect, Italy might have been better off to close its border to Brits. Bye-bye Dolomites. Hope you last visit was good, at least you have some good memory) |
It's naive to think that we can stop this infection by closing borders. It's a completely interconnected world. This virus will reach every corner. Some countries will get it worse, some will be less affected, but you can't control nature, as King Canute discovered. I'd guess it's the countries with poor healthcare and areas of high population density will suffer the most.
On the other hand, having a good old rant at lefties must be quite therapeutic, so it's great that snowHeads provides that service.
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| abc wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| yeah, well they should have closed our borders as soon as China started locking down. You'd have cried your eyes out had they done that, though. |
Italy was the first country shutting off flights from China early.
Loads of good it did.
(one of the “vector” was a friendly Brit, who after a conference in Singapore, brought the virus with him to Italy on his ski holiday.
In retrospect, Italy might have been better off to close its border to Brits. Bye-bye Dolomites. Hope you last visit was good, at least you have some good memory) |
We should have closed our borders. Had we done that we would be 6 t0 8 weeks behind on the curve.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
Italy was the first country shutting off flights from China early.
Loads of good it did.
(one of the “vector” was a friendly Brit, who after a conference in Singapore, brought the virus with him to Italy on his ski holiday.
In retrospect, Italy might have been better off to close its border to Brits. Bye-bye Dolomites. Hope you last visit was good, at least you have some good memory) |
It's naive to think that we can stop this infection by closing borders. |
It would have bought time but we might have drowned in all your tears.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Gerry wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| yeah, well they should have closed our borders as soon as China started locking down. You'd have cried your eyes out had they done that, though. |
Italy was the first country shutting off flights from China early.
Loads of good it did.
(one of the “vector” was a friendly Brit, who after a conference in Singapore, brought the virus with him to Italy on his ski holiday.
In retrospect, Italy might have been better off to close its border to Brits. Bye-bye Dolomites. Hope you last visit was good, at least you have some good memory) |
We should have closed our borders. Had we done that we would be 6 t0 8 weeks behind on the curve. |
What good will that do?
It would have just given UK 6 more weeks of inaction and denial.
UK HAD 6-8 weeks of early warning, from China. What did it do with that time?
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 31-03-20 20:14; edited 1 time in total
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| Gerry wrote: |
| It would have bought time ... |
Nope.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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All the "close the border" proponents seems to miss the irony.
All the Asian countries had next to zero "time". Yet, Korea had much smaller outbreak compare to much of western Europe and North America, which has 6-8 weeks of "time".
Einstein's principle, time is a flexible quantity. Some find it precious. Others squander it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| abc wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| yeah, well they should have closed our borders as soon as China started locking down. You'd have cried your eyes out had they done that, though. |
Italy was the first country shutting off flights from China early.
Loads of good it did.
(one of the “vector” was a friendly Brit, who after a conference in Singapore, brought the virus with him to Italy on his ski holiday.
In retrospect, Italy might have been better off to close its border to Brits. Bye-bye Dolomites. Hope you last visit was good, at least you have some good memory) |
Except he went to france and then brighton.
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@robs1, sactly, it was Les Contamines I think, not the Dollies.
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You know it makes sense.
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| abc wrote: |
@robs1, I quite agree at the poor state of preparedness of the population at large.
But "the government" is supposed to be staffed by smarter people! It should do a "better" job.
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Look at the state of many very large companies pleading for a bail out and people claiming a week into the lockdown they have no money to pay for food etc
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I think that might be a bit harsh. "Large companies" such as airline and travel related business large and small, are hit by this with practically 100% lost of business. You can't plan for that level of disruption, or you have no profitability as all your revenue got stashed away in such "preparation". While some people should stash away a bit more of their money, many can't afford to. The low income workers don't have any money spare to stash. |
I didnt say companies should have large amounts stashed away, what they shouldn't be doing is running on huge debts that cant stand any shock loading, this is was what caused the banks problems, when you have a business that is so indebted that it will fold due to losing revenue to pay bills in such a short time whereas a sensible business has the ability to borrow to pay bills as it's not always overstretched.
The UK gov has done as well as any country imvho. They have grasped that the only way to beat this virus is to allow it to infect the huge majority that it wont cause serious harm too
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| robs1 wrote: |
| The UK gov has done as well as any country imvho. |
A comparison with South Korea is worthwhile I think. I'm always cautious about international comparisons as cultural differences as much as anything else are huge, but the difference on Covid-19 between S.Korea and the UK (and most other countries) is fairly stark.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| It would have bought time ... |
Nope. |
Why so few cases in countries that no one want to get to?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Gerry wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| It would have bought time ... |
Nope. |
Why so few cases in countries that no one want to get to? |
It's everywhere, and it will continue to spread. More than 190 countries have confirmed cases. You can't stop it, just like you can't stop the world turning. But please, if it makes you feel better to make your silly point about lefties and racists, or whatever you were ranting about, keep going with this delusion. It's better you deal with your fear online than by taking it out on your nearest and dearest.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| robs1 wrote: |
| The UK gov has done as well as any country imvho. |
A comparison with South Korea is worthwhile I think. I'm always cautious about international comparisons as cultural differences as much as anything else are huge, but the difference on Covid-19 between S.Korea and the UK (and most other countries) is fairly stark. |
It's hard to compare with very different countries but within europe most countries have been similar.
It's easy to blame governments, of course we are taught to blame everyone else, look to nanny state and take no responsibility for ourselves
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Friend of ours and her flat mate have just been confirmed with having cv, not sure how but they have had it confirmed they caught it in morzine, they were there last week before lockdown, lot more about than testing shows obviously
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| robs1 wrote: |
| Friend of ours and her flat mate have just been confirmed with having cv, not sure how but they have had it confirmed they caught it in morzine, they were there last week before lockdown, lot more about than testing shows obviously |
How long ago were they in Morzine?
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| Quote: |
not sure how but they have had it confirmed they caught it in morzine
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I don't see how it could be possible to determine where you picked up a virus? Perhaps you could make a best guess based on timeline (incubation period is suggested to be around 5 days, but WHO says 1-14 days is possible), but "confirmed" seems too strong.
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@boarder2020, Seems a bit over confident to me!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@robs1, how have they been "confirmed"? Unless they've been tested (broadly requires you either to be a celeb/politician/royalty, or to be hospitalised with severe symptoms) then its based on relatively loose clinical symptoms. Testing of such cases typically reveals that 80-90% of them do NOT have coronavirus.
I think this point isn't being stressed enough to the public - I worry that there will be a lot of people wandering around, behaving as if they are immune and can't spread the condition, when they were never properly diagnosed and only had a cold.
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| robs1 wrote: |
| we are taught to blame everyone else, look to nanny state and take no responsibility for ourselves |
Speak for yourself.
I think that the public response to the pandemic shows this tired trope is untrue.
I'm impressed by how many of my children, nephews and nieces, despite having their own young families to deal with, are volunteering to help and looking out for their elderly and isolated neighbours. My daughter-in-law is still going into work to do her social care for the mentally ill and vulnerable.
Perhaps it's better to say that the proposition that all we needed was Small Government, a Free Market and Globalisation has been shown to be hollow.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| LaForet wrote: |
I'm impressed by how many of my children, nephews and nieces, despite having their own young families to deal with, are volunteering to help and looking out for their elderly and isolated neighbours. My daughter-in-law is still going into work to do her social care for the mentally ill and vulnerable. |
Hope they've been tested otherwise they are probably angels of death for the vulnerable.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@davidof, much of this is being done in a 'contactless' way, with food and supplies left on doorsteps or in doors without even going close to the neighbours. Care workers are key workers so are still allowed to see to their clients.
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@davidof, you’re in a good mood this morning
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You know it makes sense.
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I went out to start my car this morning so the battery doesn't go flat. The police were issuing a fine to the old lady across the road who walks her dog three times a day.
At the same time the local hoods rode by on their BMXs shouting abuse and they did nothing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| cameronphillips2000 wrote: |
I went out to start my car this morning so the battery doesn't go flat. The police were issuing a fine to the old lady across the road who walks her dog three times a day.
At the same time the local hoods rode by on their BMXs shouting abuse and they did nothing.
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Idiots. They will lose the consent of the public if they carry on like that.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Hope they've been tested otherwise they are probably angels of death for the vulnerable.
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My 95 year old mother in law has a team of carers coming in 3 or 4 times a day. I hope they will have the courage to keep working. They are not in any danger going to see her - she is incarcerated in her little sheltered flat, sees nobody else. I suppose she is in danger from them - they have a range of clients - but, frankly, so what? If they had the full PPE gear and wore it to go and see her she'd probably drop dead with fright. As it is she's kind of content, and completely oblivious of what is going on around her.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@pam w,
I very much hope that they can go on seeing her, regrettably its a tad disingenuous to say she poses no risk to them. If there was only one of them this would be true, however there will be different people at different times. One may infect her who in turn can infect the others.
Carers on their low wages in these situations are being genuinely heroic in my view.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Gerry wrote: |
| cameronphillips2000 wrote: |
I went out to start my car this morning so the battery doesn't go flat. The police were issuing a fine to the old lady across the road who walks her dog three times a day.
At the same time the local hoods rode by on their BMXs shouting abuse and they did nothing.
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Idiots. They will lose the consent of the public if they carry on like that. |
APRIL FOOL!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| robs1 wrote: |
| Friend of ours and her flat mate have just been confirmed with having cv, not sure how but they have had it confirmed they caught it in morzine, they were there last week before lockdown, lot more about than testing shows obviously |
How long ago were they in Morzine? |
The last week before the shut down
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| robs1 wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| robs1 wrote: |
| Friend of ours and her flat mate have just been confirmed with having cv, not sure how but they have had it confirmed they caught it in morzine, they were there last week before lockdown, lot more about than testing shows obviously |
How long ago were they in Morzine? |
The last week before the shut down |
So that's about three weeks ago? How long has France been on shutdown? Most people seem to show symptoms much quicker than that (I think the WHO says 6 days is average) so knowing for certain that they caught it in Morzine seems a bit of a stretch.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Closing borders probably wouldn't have been done early enough to stop the past spread.
But I can restrictions being imposed as things start to open up again in some months' time. If say the UK or Europe gets to a stage where the virus is eradicated from the population, because lockdowns have stopped the spread, then clearly we won't want it to start again from external sources.
Overseas visitors who have neither a vaccination certificate nor proof of acquired immunity might have to go into quarantine for two weeks, perhaps depending on where they come from, as is happening in Japan.
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| snowdave wrote: |
@robs1, how have they been "confirmed"? Unless they've been tested (broadly requires you either to be a celeb/politician/royalty, or to be hospitalised with severe symptoms) then its based on relatively loose clinical symptoms. Testing of such cases typically reveals that 80-90% of them do NOT have coronavirus.
I think this point isn't being stressed enough to the public - I worry that there will be a lot of people wandering around, behaving as if they are immune and can't spread the condition, when they were never properly diagnosed and only had a cold. |
She is an ICU nurse in london hospital specialist children's unit, not sure about her flat mate so were tested so she can go back to work.
Dont know why they were told it was from Morzine unless the virus has mutated and they can tell or whether it was from her known movements
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| ecureuil wrote: |
| ... gets to a stage where the virus is eradicated from the population... |
Is anyone confident that's going to happen in anything larger than a small island population?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| ecureuil wrote: |
Closing borders probably wouldn't have been done early enough to stop the past spread.
But I can restrictions being imposed as things start to open up again in some months' time. If say the UK or Europe gets to a stage where the virus is eradicated from the population, because lockdowns have stopped the spread, then clearly we won't want it to start again from external sources.
Overseas visitors who have neither a vaccination certificate nor proof of acquired immunity might have to go into quarantine for two weeks, perhaps depending on where they come from, as is happening in Japan. |
Lockdowns wont stop the spread, they slow it down, nothing can or will stop it, until 100% of people have had it and developed immunity which never happens, once 80 to 90 % have had it the spread will slow to such an extent that it ceases to be an issue, until it mutates which lots of viruses do of course our immune system will react quicker next time as it will be similar to the current strain.
The world will learn to live with it just as we do with flu and cold, perhaps a yearly vaccination for the vulnerable might happen like the flu one.
Once antibody testing is available it will make a huge difference to how its handled in the short term to allow the vulnerable to be protected
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| robs1 wrote: |
Lockdowns wont stop the spread, they slow it down, nothing can or will stop it, until 100% of people have had it and developed immunity which never happens, once 80 to 90 % have had it the spread will slow to such an extent that it ceases to be an issue, until it mutates which lots of viruses do of course our immune system will react quicker next time as it will be similar to the current strain.
The world will learn to live with it just as we do with flu and cold, perhaps a yearly vaccination for the vulnerable might happen like the flu one.
Once antibody testing is available it will make a huge difference to how its handled in the short term to allow the vulnerable to be protected |
I think that's right. The only way forward is through immunity, either as a result of vaccination or recovering from an infection (which hopefully will lead to some degree of lasting immunity). Until then we're simply waiting until we catch it.
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FAQ
