@D G Orf, yes, dont think he'd win many warm and fuzzy awards. But he's nothing to do with SH and I wish DG would stop trying to drag him over here. If people want to be members of SCGB then let them be. Weve heard DG's arguments OVER and OVER.
And over.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Page 101 ! ........ Room 101 ?
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 9-02-15 15:31; edited 1 time in total
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I missed the last 10 pages or so ... anything interesting happen ?
How many new usernames did DG start posting under ?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@eblunt, I think you probably missed Karl Marx putting in an appearance from the soviet sock drawer. Other than that DG has repeated the same old over and over again. See post above.
Why is the SCGB in the SIGB?
Should a club of consumers be in a club of traders?
The two organisations have almost identical initials, and are dedicated to the same snow sports, so should one be in bed with the other?
Snowsport Industries of Great Britain [SIGB] was founded in the late 1980s by a group of ski hardware/software distributors to achieve two things:
1. To wrest control of the UK ski trade fair from its earlier organisers, so that it could cater better for ski businesses.
2. To maximise profit margins for UK ski businesses - primarily those who wholesale goods to ski shops.
Today the SIGB is best known for organising the annual trade show 'Slide' at Telford, and for running a big annual ski test (in Austria in recent years) for retailers and media to check out next year's gear. Its membership field has expanded greatly, to include retailers themselves, ski publications/media and - most recently - ski travel businesses. Its function remains similar - to protect and improve the profitability of selling ski gear.
One of the SIGB's early objectives was to deal with the onset of ski baggage charges, imposed by tour operators (and, of course, then by scheduled airlines). These charges were seen as highly detrimental to UK ski shops and equipment distributors - they greatly diminished the appeal of owning gear (since transporting it became an incumbent 'tax' every time the skis were taken abroad). The SIGB failed in its attempts to persuade tour ops to reverse the policy, since the holiday companies made huge money from ski rental shop 'kickbacks' in resorts. But the SIGB has been successful in operating a trade show that's lively and appealing to the trade.
- Promote and stimulate the growth of skiing and snowboarding at all levels.
- Act as a forum for initiatives which benefit members and liaise with other organisations.
- Encourage and foster good trading standards within the snowsport trade.
- Organise Slide for the benefit of exhibitors and their customers.
So, why would the Ski Club of Great Britain be a member of a trade organisation? The proposition would have the SCGB's founders doing inverted aerials in their graves - the Club was founded as strictly 'non trade'. Anyone with a commercial interest was originally blackballed.
Things naturally softened over the years, but the SCGB originally resisted membership of the SIGB when it was available. I know that, because I was the equipment editor of the SCGB's magazine until the early 1990s and we wanted readers' interests represented strictly independently of the ski trade. We benefited enormously from that arrangement, because the SCGB was seen as an entirely impartial broker ... and therefore all the big players supported us and advertised in the magazine. There was no compromise about whose interests we represented.
The SIGB, on the other hand, was seen to promote trade interests exclusively - its worthy aim - but with the potential to be detrimental to consumers. In fact, UK ski shops originally saw the SIGB as a potential source of trade margin agreements at wholesale level (potential for cartels) that could harm their interests and those of their customers.
Skiers have a free choice of where to buy kit, internationally, and need not necessarily have concerns about maximising the profit margins of those who sell it to them!
So, why is the SCGB in bed with the SIGB? Intelligence on that question is welcome.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 9-02-15 18:33; edited 1 time in total
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Not that hard to work out. It's clear the SCGB is a trading body selling ski holidays, ski insurance, advertising and ski related merchandising. It also promotes various ski related products and services (in the form of discounts to it's members) in exchange for commission/fees.
I'd almost be surprised if it wasn't in the SIGB, even if I'd never heard of it before.
This is fluff. Pretty much everyone understands that the SCGB is selling stuff nowadays.
After all it is free
After all it is free
olderscot, as I say, when the SCGB was in the 'business' of publishing a magazine with high circulation ambitions (we quadrupled the newsstand sales of the Club's magazine from 1984 to 1992) we saw the interests of SCGB members and magazine readers as sacrosanct. In other words, we saw the interests of skiers as sacrosanct.
If this new policy of having sex with the ski trade is to have any meaning, then the SCGB's membership (offspring) must be the proof of that cohabitation. All this trading that you refer to has to expand membership - to promote membership recommendation.
Where is the proof of this? The SCGB has not declared its membership subscription numbers since 2011.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:
The SCGB has not declared its membership subscription numbers since 2011.
Although it has declared it's membership numbers, which given the context of your argument would be more relevant.
The whole environemt hsa changed. Nobody buys magazines anymore. Information is abundant on the internet and via social sharing on forums like this great one.
It could very easily be argued that the interests of it's members are better met by a deeper, more interlinked relationship rather than just in the pure number of members. But I don't care one way or the other so won't waste time on it.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
David Goldsmith wrote:
olderscot, as I say, when the SCGB was in the 'business' of publishing a magazine with high circulation ambitions (we quadrupled the newsstand sales of the Club's magazine from 1984 to 1992) we saw the interests of SCGB members and magazine readers as sacrosanct. In other words, we saw the interests of skiers as sacrosanct.
If this new policy of having sex with the ski trade is to have any meaning, then the SCGB's membership (offspring) must be the proof of that cohabitation. All this trading that you refer to has to expand membership - to promote membership recommendation.
Where is the proof of this? The SCGB has not declared its membership subscription numbers since 2011.
Just so that you know it's no longer 1990. Times change and so apparently has the SCGB and their membership. Apparently some things never change, and other things do. Some things move with the times and some don't, those that don't are sometimes referred to as dinosaurs.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
David Goldsmith wrote:
Why is the SCGB in the SIGB?
Should a club of consumers be in a club of traders?
The two organisations have almost identical initials, and are dedicated to the same snow sports, so should one be in bed with the other?
Snowsport Industries of Great Britain [SIGB] was founded in the late 1980s by a group of ski hardware/software distributors to achieve two things:
1. To wrest control of the UK ski trade fair from its earlier organisers, so that it could cater better for ski businesses.
2. To maximise profit margins for UK ski businesses - primarily those who wholesale goods to ski shops.
Today the SIGB is best known for organising the annual trade show 'Slide' at Telford, and for running a big annual ski test (in Austria in recent years) for retailers and media to check out next year's gear. Its membership field has expanded greatly, to include retailers themselves, ski publications/media and - most recently - ski travel businesses. Its function remains similar - to protect and improve the profitability of selling ski gear.
One of the SIGB's early objectives was to deal with the onset of ski baggage charges, imposed by tour operators (and, of course, then by scheduled airlines). These charges were seen as highly detrimental to UK ski shops and equipment distributors - they greatly diminished the appeal of owning gear (since transporting it became an incumbent 'tax' every time the skis were taken abroad). The SIGB failed in its attempts to persuade tour ops to reverse the policy, since the holiday companies made huge money from ski rental shop 'kickbacks' in resorts. But the SIGB has been successful in operating a trade show that's lively and appealing to the trade.
- Promote and stimulate the growth of skiing and snowboarding at all levels.
- Act as a forum for initiatives which benefit members and liaise with other organisations.
- Encourage and foster good trading standards within the snowsport trade.
- Organise Slide for the benefit of exhibitors and their customers.
So, why would the Ski Club of Great Britain be a member of a trade organisation? The proposition would have the SCGB's founders doing inverted aerials in their graves - the Club was founded as strictly 'non trade'. Anyone with a commercial interest was originally blackballed.
Things naturally softened over the years, but the SCGB originally resisted membership of the SIGB when it was available. I know that, because I was the equipment editor of the SCGB's magazine until the early 1990s and we wanted readers' interests represented strictly independently of the ski trade. We benefited enormously from that arrangement, because the SCGB was seen as an entirely impartial broker ... and therefore all the big players supported us and advertised in the magazine. There was no compromise about whose interests we represented.
The SIGB, on the other hand, was seen to promote trade interests exclusively - its worthy aim - but with the potential to be detrimental to consumers. In fact, UK ski shops originally saw the SIGB as a potential source of trade margin agreements at wholesale level (potential for cartels) that could harm their interests and those of their customers.
Skiers have a free choice of where to buy kit, internationally, and need not necessarily have concerns about maximising the profit margins of those who sell it to them!
So, why is the SCGB in bed with the SIGB? Intelligence on that question is welcome.
is this question 11?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I think the most important question is : David Goldsmith, if the club was founded on a 'non trade' basis that you seem to be holding sacrosanct...what on earth where you doing selling advertising, product placement and paper copies of a magazine for ?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
David Goldsmith, 101 pages....... What is your ultimate expectation here and what would the overall benefits of realising that expectation be to both SCGB members and the rest of the skiing community in general? Or is it, as has been suggested, a personal vendetta.....
Bit of a troll, fair enough, but after 101 pages I think I've lost the plot, and really can't see where this is going now. having said that I've enjoyed it... up until now.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Shimmy Alcott, There are questions? Lummy. I need to re-read the last 100 pages to find the others.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
is this question 11?
No, it's a red herring. There's a little shoal of them floating about, very pretty.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
limegreen1 wrote:
Page 101 ! ........ Room 101 ?
And my user name . Well I live at 101...
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
This entire shenanigan is surely a blatant waste of internets. Can we recycle them? Please?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@under a new name, if you got rid of every online thing that was a blatant waste of internets, you'd be left with the weather and your bank statement.
It could very easily be argued that the interests of it's members are better met by a deeper, more interlinked relationship [with the ski trade?] rather than just in the pure number of members.
There are lots of ways to skin the cat, but the SCGB can't claim to be "voice of British skiers" and shrink its membership at the same time. It only accounts for 2% to 3% of British skiers as things stand, and can't go any smaller if 'strength in numbers' is to mean anything. "More interlinked relationship" comes across as a 'business buzz-phrase'. What might that mean?
rogg wrote:
Just so that you know it's no longer 1990. Times change and so apparently has the SCGB and their membership. Apparently some things never change, and other things do. Some things move with the times and some don't, those that don't are sometimes referred to as dinosaurs.
One could say that any change is 'moving with the times'. Dinosaurs are certainly the ones that become extinct ... and the demographics (average age trend) of SCGB members in recent times suggest that extinction is a possibility, through lack of regeneration. How does joining a ski trade organisation help in reversing that process?
allanm wrote:
after 101 pages
Shimmy Alcott wrote:
is this question 11?
"It is question 101" is the correct answer.
lampbus wrote:
I think the most important question is : David Goldsmith, if the club was founded on a 'non trade' basis that you seem to be holding sacrosanct...what on earth where you doing selling advertising, product placement and paper copies of a magazine for ?
I wasn't
Ski Rex, the inflatable skiing dinosaur
Don't let it happen
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Tue 10-02-15 11:14; edited 1 time in total
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
So, you want to the club to stay true to it's roots and core principals but you want it to modernise so it remains relevant. The main reason people join a club like SCGB is what it can offer them that they can't get elsewhere. Forming links to the Industry is an obvious solution to that as they'll be able to get discounts and deals, previews and test days for their members. Whether this compromises the 'integrity' of the club is dependent on how those relationships are handled.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Shimmy Alcott, sanity must prevail eventually.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
sanity must prevail eventually.
I was hoping the same thing but I am starting to wonder if this will be the case.
I have referred to DG as lobbing grenades at the club he wants to save so desperately but sometimes I think they're more like little fluff balls; Irrelevant and of little consequence.
I get the feeling he'd achieve far more with a bit more quality and depth to the points he's raising, rather than just the sheer quantity.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
As was discussed earlier SCGB is the go to organisation for UK journos:
Nigel Shepherd, chief mountain adviser for the Ski Club of Great Britain, says it's a "no-brainer" for off-piste skiers to use an airbag. The biggest problem is having time to deploy it. "Very often it's the last thing you think of when it hits you. And then it's too late - you can't get your hand up to pull the handle."
No, it's a red herring. There's a little shoal of them floating about, very pretty.
It's such a minor point I doubt that it qualifies as a red herring. Perhaps a red plankton....
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Alastair Pink wrote:
I doubt that it qualifies as a red herring. Perhaps a red plankton....
Do I understand you correctly? You are proposing that this menagerie extends from dinosaurs, skinned cats, herrings ... now to plankton?
Let's be clear - the Ski Club of Great Britain is a collective of regular human beings, like you and I.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I'd add flogged horses to your list...
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Comedy Goldsmith wrote:
Let's be clear - the Ski Club of Great Britain is a collective of regular human beings, like you and I.
Oh no, you don't get away with that one - Who on earth ever gave you the impression that you are a regular human being?
You are an arrogant, narcissistic, plumped up toe rag with very little in common with any other person I have ever come across.
You bore everyone stupid with your incessant ranting.
Your problems have left you unemployable, in the normal "earning a living" sense of the word.
Just go and get help. - then you might begin to see the world through the eyes of a regular human being !
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@olderscot, DG's aim is to destroy the SCGB by getting it wound up. - he has stated as much somewhere in the last 100 pages.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
DG's aim is to destroy the SCGB by getting it wound up.
I'm not quite sure I read it that way. More that he thought it was making such poor use of it's assets that it might be better redistributing them to the members if nothing else. Still I haven't engaged with this thread for long so clearly have missed plenty of stuff, even if much of it is of little consequence.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Scrumpy wrote:
Comedy Goldsmith wrote:
Let's be clear - the Ski Club of Great Britain is a collective of regular human beings, like you and I.
Oh no, you don't get away with that one - Who on earth ever gave you the impression that you are a regular human being?
You are an arrogant, narcissistic, plumped up toe rag with very little in common with any other person I have ever come across.
You bore everyone stupid with your incessant ranting.
Your problems have left you unemployable, in the normal "earning a living" sense of the word.
Just go and get help. - then you might begin to see the world through the eyes of a regular human being !
LEGAL NOTE: The above is not only highly abusive, it is simply libellous (for the umpteenth time from this source 'Scrumpy'). It's libellous because it's untrue and defamatory. For the record I am gainfully employed by a major London employer and have been in continuous employment or self-employment since the age of 21. It is extremely unwise of you to post this kind of dishonest material, most notably because your identity is known to the CEO of the Ski Club of Great Britain ... as evidenced by your own posting of 7 January 2015 (linked here) ... and is therefore traceable ...
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=94856&start=3440#2646906
If, as you suggest, you are a member of the Ski Club of Great Britain, you are doing the organisation a grave disservice by letting loose with this sort of stuff. As a fellow member, I'd simply ask you 'Scrumpy' if you really feel you are fit to be a member of it.
This thread has revealed factual information about serious irregularities in the way the SCGB does business. Combatting that with abuse and libel is transparently unwise.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
olderscot wrote:
Quote:
DG's aim is to destroy the SCGB by getting it wound up.
I'm not quite sure I read it that way. More that he thought it was making such poor use of it's assets that it might be better redistributing them to the members if nothing else. Still I haven't engaged with this thread for long so clearly have missed plenty of stuff, even if much of it is of little consequence.
That's quite correct, olderscot. Although SCGB members obviously have control of the Club's assets and are at liberty to control any outcome I am opposed to anything that might be viewed as 'carpet-bagging' and would much prefer that the assets are used to create a superior alternative to the SCGB, run on a much more cost-efficient basis.
Your problem is that you are sounding about as bad as you say DG is.
I don't agree with a lot of what he says but do accept that at the very least he and GA are as bad as each other ( not a good position for GA as he should due to his position act in a more responsible manner ). I do think DG has some valid questions that are not being answered clearly by GA and should be ( after all if he answered them fully and openly it would weaken DG's cause unless he can't because what DG is suggesting/asking is correct ).
I think one of the biggest issues re membership of the SCGB was closing the forum and not having a fully open and transparent forum like this one. Admin has shown how wrong the SCGB has got it by how succesful this site is, so more fool those who stopped it.
I have never been a member of the SCGB and probably never will. My first experience of them was meeting some members who where rather stuck up full of themselves and thought they where great skiers, at best they where poor intermediates very borring and had little regard for others.
Now before I get flamed by those who are members I accept they where a very small minority many members I met since have been great people but first impressions do stick and as I got very good discounts back then on gear anyway and spent enough time each yer on snow I never saw the need to join the SCGB.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@speed098, why should GA answer a former member's questions about anything?
For once and for all, DG is an ex member, who has not been allowed to rejoin the club which he wishes to get wound up in some way or other, as he has stated above.
DG has nothing to do with SCGB.
DG is not a rational human being - he needs professional help.
The SCGB at the SIGB 'Slide' trade show - video report
The UK ski trade fair took place at Telford a couple of weeks ago. The SCGB's Alyn Morgan (who is on the committee of SIGB) reports on hardware trends for 2016 - video below. The SIGB committee, according to their bulletin of yesterday is ...
Quote:
SIGB Committee President - Sam Noble [Noble Custom], Matt Woodruffe [TKC Sales], Damon Street [K2 UK Ltd], Jason Summerfield [Amer Sports UK], Alyn Morgan [Ski Club of Great Britain], Henry Druce [Telegraph Events], Rod Campbell [Carters], Steve Wells [Ellis Brigham], Jeremy Sladen [The Snowboard Asylum], Andreas Vaern [Groove Armada], Karla Mason [Craigdon Mountain Sports], Matt Pyne-Gilbert [The Boarding Company]
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@David Goldsmith, thanks for the SLIDE link. Very helpful.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Scrumpy wrote:
For once and for all, DG is an ex member, who has not been allowed to rejoin the club ...
DG has nothing to do with SCGB.
DG is not a rational human being - he needs professional help.
Once again, the last line is libellous, since it infers mental health issues ... absolutely untrue and defamatory.
As for the first two lines, the SCGB-official documentary evidence of my current SCGB membership (renewed on 6 Jan 2015) has been repeatedly given over previous pages.
Repeating untruths, abuse and libel is a serially stupid thing to do. As above, it does the Ski Club of Great Britain a grave disservice in terms of public image.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@David Goldsmith, if you are a member of the Club why don't you post your concerns and opinions on the Club's forum? That, surely, would be the most sensible thing to do rather than (ab)use unrelated social media platforms such as snowHeads?
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
rob@rar, simple answer to that one, Rob. I have no posting facility on either the SCGB website (either as a registered user or member) or Facebook page. This has all been blocked.
Given that the SCGB officially describes its voice as representative of all British skiers, it's relevant for its affairs to be discussed on sH. Calling this an "abuse" is OTT and wrong - your personal opinion, fine.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
. Well I live at 101...
