 Poster: A snowHead
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I don't want a shabby, dated shower with low water pressure, mouldy grout and insufficient room to stand upright.
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well, a bit of tired stereotyping there, I'd say....... wouldn't you? Akin to declining to go to Austria because you don't want oompah bands, ultra cheesy europop, eating noodles sprinkled with fag ash and stepping round pools of vomit in the street on the way home from the lap-dancing club.
The difference is that nobody does make such rubbish generalisations about Austria. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w, f you'd bothered to read the next paragraph of the post you quoted, you might have noticed that I expressly did not use a tired stereotype. I actually said that France has high quality accommodation that meets my expectations, but that it's out of my price bracket.
How much would you expect to pay for, say, 9 days in an 80m2 apartment with two bathrooms and an outdoor pool in 3V, Tignes or Chamonix? I'm guessing at least EUR3,000. Is that fair?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Jonny Jones, I could find you a similar place in Serre Chevalier for way less than 3000€ a week.
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UHells Bells, I should have added half term as an infuriating additional requirement. But I'm sure you're right that the resorts that I've mentioned aren't the cheapest in France.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Jonny Jones, for half-term, but they are probably already booked up. My smaller place has been since the week after last half-term.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hells Bells, maybe everyone should just have a week at Silksworth 
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chrisb, .
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Jonny Jones, I am going to guess that at least part of the problem, and I understand your stance on it, is that many apartments (anywhere) are operated on a basis that won't allow anything other than a Sat-Sat changeover. Ours are very nice and I think would suit your budget but we simply cannot accommodate odd dates.
Whereas I think that US condos/apartment blocks are often operated as "suite-hotels" and they have the staff available to be more flexible.
I still am astonished that you can absorb the transatlantic/transcontinental flight cost and get away cheaper?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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under a new name, we did two trips to Canada, no way could we have done it for the price of an equivalent French trip.
Jonny Jones, we can also do flexible dates, arrivals and departures. However, French families booking for February want 7 (or occasionally 14) nights Saturday to Saturday, they wouldnt be interested in 4 or 11 nights because Mr UK guest had stayed for 10, so we would charge a premium rate for an unusual stay in peak season. OUr management team don't mind the flexibility as it takes the pressure off them on a Saturday.
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Last year, 9 nights luxury accommodation in the USA cost us £200 each including a hefty cooked breakfast buffet. Lunch, dinner and drinks are at least £10 lower per person per day. A large SUV was £200less than France. Flights to the USA are a shade under £600 each compared with maybe £250 to France at half term, and the more generous baggage allowance means skis travel free. France is already more expensive, but, perhaps worst, the really interesting skiing there needs a guide whereas it's yours for the taking in North America.
I have no axe to grind against the French. I've taken more holidays there than in any other country, but, for my particular set of circumstances, the big resorts there have priced themselves out of my market.
My next French skiing trip will probably be to somewhere small and specialised - La Grave, perhaps.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Jonny Jones, now that is a good choice.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Jonny Jones, where in the States was your luxury accommodation for £200 each for 9 nights??
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One mans luxury is another's dump.
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You know it makes sense.
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| sj1608 wrote: |
| Jonny Jones, where in the States was your luxury accommodation for £200 each for 9 nights?? |
Jackson Hole last year, but I've had similar bargains in several other resorts in North America over the past 10 years. The first golden rule is to never pay the brochure price. The second golden rule is to never pay the internet price. For some reason, despite it being the land of Google, Microsoft and Apple, telephone prices are always lower then web prices over there.
By luxury, I don't mean rock star luxury. I probably don't even mean luxury by American standards, but it's definitely luxury by the miserable standards of our continent. Last year's place was huge, newly refurbished and glistened with granite and chrome. We had vast beds, capacious sofas, two 52" TVs to bring us Fox News  and a couple of fireplaces. Indoor and outdoor hot tubs and swimming pools and ample free parking rounded things out. I've stayed in several 5* hotels in Britain and Europe that have been much smaller, much scruffier and less well appointed.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Amazing the difference a week makes. Queasy quoting a mere £70 (no luggage, etc) 8-15 Feb 2014 and a whopping £300 for 15-22 Feb.
You really need to book your half term flights early!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Poor Wayneo, I imagine this was meant to be about how cheap Italy is, not the states.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Jonny Jones, I'm with you on this and I also have been paying for my 3 offspring too. last three years to Courch, Tignes and Cham. Although Cham was slightly cheaper.
The same years I have been to Italy, Austria and Switzerland.
Astonishingly it was even cheaper in Switzerland than my experiences in France!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| under a new name wrote: |
| Amazing the difference a week makes. Queasy quoting a mere £70 (no luggage, etc) 8-15 Feb 2014 and a whopping £300 for 15-22 Feb. |
Looks like it's not just the French that rip off UK skiers!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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skimastaaah, if you were running an airline you'd keep all fares the same, regardless of demand?
Isn't that the very same policy which brought down the old national carriers?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Filthyphil30k wrote: |
| Poor Wayneo, I imagine this was meant to be about how cheap Italy is, not the states. |
That's the only interesting thing about this thread anymore. He's not here to suggest Trentino as the place to go.
I wonder if his business was affected at all by the way he left the forum? Probably not, as forum users account for a very very small percentage of skiers.
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pam w, Just a slight hint as to why some parents may just want to go skiing in term time rather than be forced to pay rip-off prices during peak dates. Funnily enough there is greater consistency of pricing on Swiss/Lufthansa/BA scheduled flights when compared to "low cost" carriers.
Back on track as regards skier costs in France, 5 Euros for a 330ml bottle of water in Tignes Les Brevieres did it for me. Oh, and the Gourmet Salad at the Edelwies restaurant above Le Fornet a massive 29 Euros. One very nice salad, but............... Ouch!
Plan to ski Lech/Arlberg, Monte Rosa, Aosta Valley, and then Kitz on my birthday weekend.
France no longer gets a look in (as mentioned previously) despite the exceptional skiing on offer. My personal experiences of over 30 years skiing tend now to omit over-priced, over-busy, overly indifferent French resort staff, and now over-rated large ski domains. HOWEVER, the majority of UK skiers, circa 35%, DO prefer to ski in France, and that is their choice to do so. Funnily enough the Thomas Cook/Neilson arm of Crystal/Tui dropped 15.8% of its share of the ski market last year, and it is interesting that Thomas Cook/Neilson have greatly reduced capacity (rumoured at 50%) in their French resorts for the 2013/2014 season. AND this is on top of a total drop of some 27% of UK skier numbers since 2008, that's a fall from 1,227,000 to 900,000 in 5 years. (Actual figures from Crystal Ski Industry Report, July 2013)
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sat 3-08-13 8:49; edited 1 time in total
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skimastaaah, Tignes <> France.
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there is greater consistency of pricing on Swiss/Lufthansa/BA scheduled flights when compared to "low cost" carriers.
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Don't you believe it. BA flights Gatwick to Geneva for half term are currently between £318 and £600 return depending on the time you choose. I fly BA from Gatwick to Genova several times a year and have found that prices are very elastic indeed. I recently flew for £80 return, hand baggage only. Booked well in advance and in May - not peak time. Shortly before I flew that journey would have cost me £400 and all the flights during the summer holidays were expensive, even booked months in advance. If I wanted to fly out on 10 August for a week it would cost me well over £500.
French supermarkets - even in Tignes - are full of bottled water costing very little. It defeats me why anyone would pay €5 for a bottle but if someone is willing to do so I guess there is always going to be someone willing to part him from his money. And having bought your first cheap supermarket bottle it can then provide you with free water for the rest of your holiday, as the tap water is perfectly drinkable. A spot of forethought can save you a fortune.
I'm well aware why parents want to ski in term time - and it's what I always did when I had school aged kids. As much because of disliking lift queues as for the money saved.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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under a new name, for the vast majority of UK skiers going on holiday France is easy to define:
3V
Val D'Ispair
Tignes
La Plagne
Les Arcs
Chamonix
maybe add Alpe Duez and Les2Alpes
The myriad of other resorts, many well known to SnowHeads are "in France" but are not "France" in terms of mass perception.
It's not just the cost though....how many times have we seen threads here along the lines of "where can I go to avoid half-term crowds?" which end up with a subsequent qualification of that question to really be asking "where can I go in France?"
The people asking are referred to Austria, Italy and Switz'.....but what they want is a french mega resort.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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pam w, when faced with what we both agree is a rip-off, you and I have different responses. You find something cheaper but less convenient - the supermarket. I mutter "stuff you" under my breath and book my next holiday somewhere less hostile to visitors.
France's problem is this: people talk. One person gets ripped off in Courchevel, and they tell 20 others to avoid all French resorts. Whether it's fair or not, the 'France is a rip-off' meme is becoming firmly embedded in the British psyche.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pam w, Bottle of water costing 5 Euros came with a drinks stop on the mountain.
BA flights to Zurich, that's MAN-LHR-ZRH return, cost 9000 Avios.
Last minute 4* plus Chalet offers are consistently under £500.
Please read the edit on my earlier post regarding the UK skier declining numbers. France has lost out to the tune of over 120,000 UK skiers in 5 years.
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rungsp,
I'm not sure I get your point. Mine was simply that you can't generalise to France from a single incident in Tignes. A bit like me saying that Britain is unfeasibly expensive because I had to pay £4.80 for a pint of premium lager in a trendy bar in South Kensington. (To be honest here, I had just had a fine pint of ale in a less trendy South Ken bar for a mere £3.40 )
Sure, there are indeed places anywhere that are going to offer less vfm. But I can point you, for example, to many very reasonable and good quality restaurants in Chamonix. Even some on the mountain.
And another thing, pedantically, your list would be more correct reading,
3Vs
Espace killy
Paradiski
Chamonix
You've surely missed out Portes du Soleil and Grand Massif haven't you?
skimastaaah, no, just a sweeping and untrue generalisation.
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You know it makes sense.
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I walked in to a restaurant in London the other day and ordered without bothering to look at the prices. My lobster Thermidor cost me £50! I'm emigrating!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Jonny Jones, tbh I'd massively prefer to have continental clients. Although they may not have the budget of the Brits they generall leave the place much cleaner and don't break things without expecting to pay for them.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| ........the 'France is a rip-off' meme is becoming firmly embedded in the British psyche. |
And that should be a cause for concern when taken with the 120,000 UK skier drop in numbers going to France to ski.
I like "memes", ........ a unit for dispersal of cultural ideas and practices. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Arno, last time i pay for a pair of "accommodating" blonde Russian girls in Courchevel either.
Fleeced or what? (Well... stripped, whipped, chained up, tied down...)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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under a new name, Is that a "Russian Girls" meme? 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| Jonny Jones, tbh I'd massively prefer to have continental clients. Although they may not have the budget of the Brits they generall leave the place much cleaner and don't break things without expecting to pay for them. |
Didn't you just accuse another poster of making sweeping and untrue generalisations?
I'll make another as they're so fashionable. I've had three bad accommodation experiences in France over the years. All were British owned. French owned accommodation has always been good. Maybe I should avoid expat landlords. Especially ones who don't like Brits.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Whether it's fair or not, the 'France is a rip-off' meme is becoming firmly embedded in the British psyche.
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Not well enough embedded to stop more British skiers choosing France than anywhere else though. Must be something which appeals. I suppose most are happy without splashing out on huge luxury apartments with swimming pools and glad to be able to find low-cost accommodation and cater for themselves. From reading snowheads I'd say that that, or finding reasonable catered chalet accommodation, is probably the choice for the majority.
Personally, I'd prefer to be somewhere fairly far from the majority of British package holidaymakers...... and there are hundreds of French resorts which satisfy that criterion.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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pam w, I know this is purely anecdotal, but none of my friends or colleagues skied in France last year. Several cited rip-off mountain restaurants as a major factor. The sour taste left by one EUR5 bottle of water is completely out of proportion to the real additional cost.
Untold numbers of businesses have failed by assuming that this year's customers will come back next year. Look at Nokia, Rover, Lotus 123.
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Jonny Jones, i'm just quoting our experience over ~420 rental weeks. Probably split 60:40 anglophone:not.
I don't not like Brits but the Euros just have different expectations on how to treat rental properties. I've just been round one and it's had two young French families in it for a week. Spotless, linen stripped and in piles for wash. The cleaners will have little to do other than change linen.
Contrast that to a UK group recently where it took 6 hours just to clean the place.
The vast majority of our UK clients are great even if many don't do a thorough clean before departure (that's OK, we don't expect them to) but 100% of our continentals are great and invariably do clean.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
....
Not well enough embedded to stop more British skiers choosing France than anywhere else though. |
UK skiers show a marked real numbers decrease in choosing France, a whopping 120,000 in the past 5 years. Actual percentage of market share remains largely the same at just below 35%, and yes, this does mean the other UK skier destinations have also decreased their actual UK skier numbers. However the greater loss of real/actual UK skier numbers is in France. There are other distributional losses as well, but if France was so good UK skier numbers should have increased the percentage share even in a market downturn due to the overall operator capacity and some decent deals/marketing most certainly as was with the Crystal/Tui empire.
Simply put............... France has lost more UK skiers than Austria/Italy/Switzerland put together! (Another sweeping generalisation!)
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skimastaaah, feels like it... 
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FAQ
