 Poster: A snowHead
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holidayloverxx, great!  (Haven't got time to go to Nottingham now...let's hope the ski techs in L'Oxalys know what they're doing.)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| miranda wrote: |
| albinomountainbadger, do you ask clients what level of skier they are when you refer to the chart, or do you ask them what terrain they're going to be skiing and how? |
That's a good point; generally speaking, most women play down their ability and most men exaggerate it. That's a topic for another thread (!) but the gist is it's wrong to ask directly. I tend to chat to clients about how often they ski, where they ski in resort, how many hours a day, fast/slow turns or straight etc, to get a true idea of their profile. You can also tell a lot from their physical form, ie fit or overweight, and just general 'profiling'. Then apply the sum of all that to one of the categories on the chart. Important to get the client to confirm what I think though, as if it goes tits up they have to be responsible. It might sound a lot but it's not that hard as you do chat quite a bit when choosing boots and skis, and how people talk to each other in a group often betrays their level of ability/confidence. Not had many disagree with me either, so must be working ok. In my experience, most ski techs do care about their work and their clients, language issues are the main cause of bad service.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I can't remember the last bindings I haven't fiddled with. Either to change DINs or to get the forward pressure setting right or even to move the bindings forward or backwards to see how it change things.
I've also got a hurty right knee and poorly left calf from falling off.
It never crossed my mind to try and sue someone.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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chances are very much in favour of this being bad luck rather than something you can prove is something someone should be legally liable for. as fatbob has said, even if you can show that the bindings are not working as they should, a lot has happened between you buying the bindings and your accident and many things could have contributed to the problem.
the other things is reasonable expectations - bindings are not perfect and a known issue for all bindings is that they need a shock to make them release. slow falls often don't provide this. my own knee knack is down to a binding releasing too early so it cuts both ways
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Arno, Love "knee knack" (the term, not the injury). I might adopt it,
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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holidayloverxx, stolen from the Guardian's "Fiver" football email
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Emmeline,
Sorry to hear about the accident - you have my best wishes for a speedy recovery. Let's hope you're up & about before too long.
I'm not going to venture an opinion on whether you might be able to claim against anyone as I have no idea. However, news of your plight does give me an opportunity to add my own tale of woe (by co-incidence, we were on the same trip) and my thanks to those who were there when I needed them...
Rob told me about your ghastly accident the day after it happened. I had emailed him from home with an update on the consequences of my rather routine tumble the day before yours. In stark contrast to your experience, my skis did release as expected (WoooHoo!) but one of the little blighters jumped up and a binding smashed me in the face - a couple of teeth broken, a couple loose and a couple considerably displaced from their usual position (think Jafar in Disney's Aladdin cartoon) although, intriguingly, not loose! My bottom lip was cut inside & out (appropriate given the ski school we were with  ) so much blood did I spill on the piste that day. Having skiied only till mid-morning on day one, this was not what I had been looking forward to!
My fellow students, the instructor (Scott), the nice man on the skidoo  and the hotel staff were all fabulously helpful in my hour of need. A trip was arranged to the local dentist to fix up the minor (broken, loose) damage but she looked rather taken aback at the 'major trauma' as she described it on her invoice. She advised an early return to the UK with an immediate hospital visit - so, home I came the very next day. 
Anyway, from feeling rather sorry for myself with my hurty mouth and wonky teeth, the news of your accident brought back the old adage that 'there's always someone worse off than you'. Sadly, that someone was you and you have my sympathy. Get well soon.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Emmeline,
Sorry to hear of your break - what financial loss have you (rather than your insurance company) suffered?
I think that your chance of getting anything is negligible. If there was any suggestion of 'fault' other than user error (or absolutely reckless negligence which doesnt seem to aplly here) then frankly we wouldn't be allowed up a mountain with planks on to ski down snow having been hauled up 50m in the air without being strapped in.
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Red Leon, that sounds like very bad luck, and a nasty accident.  Hope they can sort out your teeth.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Get your bindings tested, you need to do this anyway, and if they are malfunctioning then possibly, just possibly, you have a legal case. But a simple malfunction does not mean liability, you'll need to prove the reason for the failure was down to a manufacturing or design fault rather than damage, wear and tear, or bad adjustment.
Your no win no fee leeches won't be the slightest bit interested as they have no engineering knowledge - just think how much intelligent work your claim would involve compared with firing off 100 standard letters for tripping on cracked paving slabs.
Depending on the make of bindings you'll probably find you have to pursue a claim against a company outside of the UK (even if you bought them here). I've no reason to suspect the French legal system isn't totally impartial (unless perhaps you're a british ski instructor), but it certainly isn't going to make things any easier for you.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks for all helpful responses, and good wishes for getting better 
holidayloverxx sorry to hear about your injuries, hope you're on the mend.
I fully understand the risks involved with skiing, and that it's my fault that I fell - and to some extent I'm lucky to have skiied for as long as I have without serious injury until now.
It's difficult to write on forums and come across how you actually intend to, but I'm not actually a money grubber (thanks Pedantica for the support) - and apologies if it looked to anyone like I was trying to blame the manufacturers (or anyone else) for the fall.
If it helps - I thought the question was legitimate as this particular manufacturer have (in the past) recalled bindings that they've produced, on the basis that they were faulty.
In this case the issue was that they were releasing too early, rather than too late, however it does suggest that there can be problems with a product.
To clarify - the bindings were set for me on these skis by the shop that sold them to me, using the recommended chart.
This is also a setting I've used with previous skis, and have not had any trouble with other skis releasing before at that setting.
I was happy with the skis for a year, and didn't imagine that there could be any issues, because I'd never fallen over on them during that time.
That said though - again, I'm not actually blaming the skis, or the bindings, just saying this is the first time I would have noticed anything unusual.
It makes sense that slow speed falls may not result in a binding releasing, thanks for that. Actually when you watch the video it's kind of amusing as you can see that it looks like my foot is still actually carving through the snow, while everything from the knee up is going in a different direction, possibly what's happened is there hasn't been the right sort of impact to pop the skis off.
From what everyone has said - it doesn't look like there is any benefit in attempting to make a claim, so thanks for the advice - I won't bother persuing that.
I might well have a chat with spyderjon though (cheers Claude B) and get these skis torque tested, as once I'm able to ski again I'll want to make doubly sure everything is ok.
I'll probably have to see him anyway, as I doubt I'll be able to use my current boots straight away (which are relatively new, so not at all worn, as someone suggested could also be an issue).
Cheers again,
Emm.
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Hope it's been helpful - almost all binding manufacturers recall bindings at some point in time or another, as the consequences of having even potentially faulty product in the market are high. My theory is that do enough skiing sooner or later you'll break a binding so I'm not sure that there is any implication that a particular model is bad. Some universals seem to apply e.g. metal > plastic, turntable heels desirable if you are particularly worried (but limited to a very niche part of a single range).
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You know it makes sense.
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Emmeline, no consolation to you, I know, but I'd like to thank you for initiating this thread. As a result of reading it, I've contacted Jon, who's advised me to reduce my din setting (I've lost some weight since the bindings were set) and I shall get that done - and the torque tested - by the ski techs in the hotel in Val Thorens on Saturday. I might just merrily not have bothered with any of that, had you not posted, so thanks.
Get well soon.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Pedantica, Jon advised me to reduce my din settings when I hit 50. Does the ski tech in Val Thorens have a torque testing machine?
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Poster: A snowHead
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holidayloverxx,
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Jon advised me to reduce my din settings when I hit 50
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Erm, it's been a while for me! 
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Does the ski tech in Val Thorens have a torque testing machine?
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No idea. Hope so.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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In all the times I've hired skis, and been with other people hiring skis, I have never seen binding release being tested. I wonder how often it's done?
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I was happy with the skis for a year, and didn't imagine that there could be any issues, because I'd never fallen over on them during that time.
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Wow!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Pedantica wrote: |
| ...I've contacted Jon, who's advised me to reduce my din setting ...- and the torque tested - by the ski techs in the hotel in Val Thorens on Saturday. |
All sensible steps but I would add (with tongue metaphorically and, these days, often literally 'in cheek').... get yourself a gumshield 
PamW , Pedantica
Having studied the X-rays and satisfied himself I hadn't broken my jaw the maxillo-facial (!) doc at A&E numbed my lower jaw, took a good grip on the misplaced teeth and pulled them into roughly the right place. There were some unpleasant creaking sounds but, thankfully, no pain. Those two front teeth now feel rather vague so I daren't use them at all - I have to cut my food into bite-sized pieces and there's no chance of me eating an apple for a while. The rest of my gnashers don't mesh as they used to so chewing is, err, interesting but the dentist says to leave well alone for a few weeks and we'll see what happens. My interpretation is that the affected teeth will either become more firmly attached to the rest of me, they'll fall out of their own volition or they'll hang on but be declared u/s and have to be removed by the dentist. I'm hoping for option 1
Soup for dinner again tonight 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Red Leon, bloomin' 'eck, you did a fairly comprehensive job there, didn't you?! I do hope the best option is the one that you can pursue.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Red Leon, Oh God, that sounds awful and miserable. Wot Pedantica said.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Red Leon, ew, that does sound horrible. I had to take my daughter to a hospital appointment to have a growth removed from her lip under local anaesthetic. That was in the MFU and I told her it stood for Man the F*ck Up.
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albinomountainbadger, why don't you adjust the forward pressure rather than moving the boot indicator length too big/small???
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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cathy,
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Red Leon - hey, apologies - I missed a few posts before I put my last reply up - good to hear from you, I hope you're doing ok - but by the sounds of it there's a way to go That was an unlucky trip for a few of us by all accounts, there was some severe sickness (possibly noro-virus) for a couple of the others during the rest of the week. Real shame we didn't get to enjoy any of the decent snow, and the only views I had of the spectacular scenery I was looking forward to was on the skidoo ride down to the medical centre - and I was too busy trying not to soil myself on the way down that I didn't actually get to do any marvelling! Like you I was impressed with the treatment I received in Italy, and am grateful for everyone who helped me out with everything.
Pedantica - glad that this thread has hopefully been of some benefit to you. When I'm back skiing again I'm pretty sure I'll need to go back to softer skis and boots, as I doubt I'll be ripping up any reds and blacks for a good while yet (hopefully I will again in time though, but I've been told the likelihood is that my knee will be arthritic after all this - boo!). Consequently I'll need a different binding setting I'm guessing, as I won't be anywhere near as aggressive with my skiing, so I'll get in touch with Jon nearer the time for advice - boots, skis, bindings - the lot!
pam w - hehe, MFU!
cathy - thanks, I've had a hinged double cast on for a couple of weeks now and am getting loads more mobility back, and the knee is almost in the right position. Physio is really helping, though I know there's been some serious muscle wastage as my cast is pretty loose now. Avoided the steel plates, partially because there wasn't enough stable bone to pin anything into. It's been 4 weeks already (time flies!) so hopefully I'll be walking again in a couple of months. I'm going to have big Popeye arms from wheeling and crutching about, and a little Olive Oyl right leg
To those that have asked about financial loss, and what I'd be suing for - to be fair I haven't had any financial loss that the insurance company won't cover. I'm office based, can work from home and am already back at work - so no worries on that score. If I'm honest I really don't know the first thing about claims etc, it's just that people have asked me if I'm eligible for compensation or whether there's any 3rd party liability, and I really wasn't sure - hence the thread. I said 'no' to 3rd party liability on my insurance claim - as it's not as if someone banged into me or
loaned me out some dodgy equipment or anything like that. I was just making enquiries, in case there was a bit of defective kit at play here. As I've gathered from the responses, there is no perfect binding, and accidents do happen that are no one's fault but the person having the accident. I have to admit that I didn't tie the words 'compensation' and 'sueing' together - the concept of trying to sue the manufacturers wasn't what I was thinking, but that's just me knowing nothing about the law. Now that it's been explained, I won't be looking to sue anyone, but I will get some advice about the skis and bindings, either to assure myself that the equipment is fine but just needs tweaking, or just in case there is a bit of a defect and I shouldn't use those ones again.
Cheers all again for the responses - reading those has given me the perfect excuse to put off my physio for an hour or so Better get on with it though.... groan! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Emmeline, I cant answer your original question, but can hopefully send some positive vibes your way. I believe we met at the IO summer ski in tignes this year. anyhow I trashed my femur skiing many moons ago and was told id have problems and probably always limp. i'm glad to say no limp and probably skiing as hard aa I was before, but it took many years to get confidence back 100%. all I can say is do whatever the physio says regimentally. I think I did exercises every hour for 3 months of rehab.
good luck, pic below of my femur....
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Emmeline, thanks to little ms spock you can see all my xrays - feel free to post yours!
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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kitenski, I think "trashed" is quite a mild description of that......
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Poster: A snowHead
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kitenski, OMG, you could have put that in one of those yellow spoiler boxes with a warning!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| kitenski wrote: |
| albinomountainbadger, why don't you adjust the forward pressure rather than moving the boot indicator length too big/small??? |
Well if there is one I do, but as I said, no industry standard on this. Many skis and nearly all rental bindings require the entire heel or toe piece to be moved, there simply isn't an additional lever or screw hiding at the back. I haven't got any in front of me to check at the moment, but from memory Nordica's chosen speed-dial bindings (Marker, I think) are a notorious example as there's only one dial in the centre to adjust heel and toe, and the numbers are never right (often one ski has to be set differently to the other too). Makes sense when you realise the numbers are just stickers which can be misplaced or even move.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Emmeline, Red Leon, Wishing you both a speedy recovery. I'm sure your very positive attitudes will help!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Pedantica wrote: |
| ... I shall get that done - and the torque tested - by the ski techs in the hotel in Val Thorens on Saturday. ... |
I've only ever seen torque testing machines in shops in Austria, never in France - do let us know if they have one in VT.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Red Leon, 
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| kitenski wrote: |
| pic below of my femur.... |
Yeah, that's a good un! Did that require pinning? Friend required this as a result of a crash while race training this season. Must take strong force to snap a femur in such a dramatic fashion...?
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rob@rar, 18 screws and a 12inch metal plate.....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar, WOW! makes mine look pretty insignificant (which it is in the scheme of things) as does kitenski's metalwork
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| kitenski wrote: |
| rob@rar, 18 screws and a 12inch metal plate..... |
Good effort!
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FAQ
ironwork 
s. I'd lay good odds that the people asking you about compensation options weren't skiers.