 Poster: A snowHead
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Ok maybe try stopping on the crest of the first steeper pitch you get to and line up across the piste while plotting a safe route down . That will stop these maniacs
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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you should try the fridge in Dubai on a Friday, where they let certain kids/teenagers ski or board without any lessons, and rarely pull them off. Seeing skiers sitting on their butt carooning down straight ski without a chance of controlling themselves is pretty scary. Some also do it just to think they are fabulous! Its not exactly a wide piste....
As for lessons, I cant believe people go up the mountains without plenty of lessons and practice! Lessons here are a fortune compared to the Alps, but there was no way I was going away and falling off a mountain just because of a few dirhams!! We learnt side slipping, edge control etc etc long before linked turns.
When we got to Kitz (our first real mountain, as we learnt here mid-life) we aimed for blue runs on the 'horn' which is bowled and super wide. Boarded that for days before venturing out beyond that. I go at my OH's pace and always look out for people being nasty to her that I need to follow and punch in the face later. A couple of times i have been targeted by an out of controller, but normally manage to avoid and stick out an arm or elbow or something. Being 100kgs helps!
Went to Whistler Feb 2012 and have to say, the manners of both boarders and skiers was totally different to Europe, entirely due to the ski patrol busting any bad behaviour immediately; hold people accountable and they behave, simple.
Will be interested to see what the PDS has in store for us this winter...
For the record, Im happy stating I am very much a beginner and go at the speed and slopes to reflect that....oh, and those damn telemarkers are the worst!!! Just watching them makes me fall over!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| jean claude mont blanc wrote: |
Coddlesangers
Ski in the S pattern is the best way . Just like the ski schools .I hope you made sure you were using the whole piste edge to edge to stop all dangerous nutters getting past , so not endagering yourselves . |
Not at all, we were skiing a fairly tight line down, small kids in the middle, one grown up at the front, one at the back. We as a family ski every weekend from Jan - mid March, so its not like we can't negotiate a tight turn or two....there is enough of us (6) skiing, that we are like a small ski school. The endangerment came only from two snowboarders who weren't in control, there was LOTS of piste for them to aim at, and our line was ENTIRELY predictable. It can be carnage around the top of the pleney bubble in morzine, they definitely get more than their fair share of slightly out of control beginners (both skiiers and snowboarders, just my view that beginning snowboarders tend to be more over confident in the main than beginning skiiers).
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| Geno wrote: |
| ....Is it just me or are the snowboarders a much bigger problem? They certainly do more damage upon impact and I believe Deer Valley in the U.S has banned them. |
| D G Orf wrote: |
Geno, Snowboarders are no better or worse than skiers in terms of causing accidents, though they do tend to sit down more on the piste, I think that's more to their having both feet anchored to one board, the better ones can take a near straight line down the hill and be in perfect control just as a good skier can
I'm not sure about damage though I've not seen anything that says they cause more damage in accidents do you have anything that would support this ? |
Like D G Orf says, I suppose it's all down to having both feet strapped to the board, as opposed to two planks that can un-clip from the bindings and fire all over the shop. Skiers can at least can go into the gaps between your legs, whereas boarders don't have that luxury
I do know though that the comings together I've had with other boarders have usually been at a slightly slower speed, as they've usually been on an edge trying to stop. Mind you, I was taken out by a pair of Russians in L2A last year that were obviously trying to do the Kessel run in 12 parsecs. 
| D G Orf wrote: |
| ....though they do tend to sit down more on the piste.... |
I'm guilty of this, although I generally sit on the edge of the piste where there's a build-up of snow to act as a seat. I suppose that as crowds increase and the mix of skiers and boarders increases, all slope users should be aware of how 'the other half' behave.... it's about being vigilant and although there is piste etiquette (not sitting on the piste being one) it shouldn't be expected that boarders make it from top to bottom in one go, especially as many people's fitness levels don't allow them to to do that.
On the subject of Les Gets, I had a coming together with some juniors up near the boardercross area a few years back... coming down the piste at fair speed, but in control, from the (just) off-piste, a ski school decided to re-join the run. I managed to slow on an edge but hit two of the kiddies at a low speed. The kids were probably in the 8-10 age range. I was mortified, mostly because I didn't want these kids to be injured. I hurt my wrist in the crash but instantly unclipped, as did my missus and the two guys we were with, so we could make sure the kids were fine. Some people stopped and gave us a few dirty looks and muttered what were probably 'bloody snowboarders' comments but fair play to the kids, they got up, brushed themselves off and gave us a reassuring smile that they were okay. The instructor was having an epi (in French) and seemed more bothered about having a go at us than checking his kids. Thankfully they all skied off without a scratch but it made me more aware that there can always be a surprise in store, especially when people are off-piste and suddenly want to rejoin the run without slowing or checking the uphill.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 14-01-13 12:15; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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boarders shouldn't sit in the middle of the piste, but then skiers shouldn't stop and assess the way down in the middle, either. It's not possible just to stand on a board and "chill" - you are balancing the whole time. There's nothing wrong with sitting - or standing - at the edge (and then looking uphill before setting off).
There's no excuse for an out of control border or skier hurtling hundreds of yards down and the crashing into somebody, or a lift line. They should simply "deck it" and take the consequences for themselves. I have done that a couple of times on a snowboard, once because I doubted my ability to steer a controlled line past a class of 5 year olds. Imagine the bollocking!
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You should be allowed to stop wherever you like. You could have a crash or an equipment failure which might result in you being on the piste. Instructors often stop a group on piste, which does not give you the right to skittle them; unless they are snowboarders of course.
You should also be able to avoid plant, such as a piste basher. No good hitting a snow plough and then whine and carry on that it is on the piste. Don't laugh as it has happened and people have killed themselves this way.
It is farking simple; you have to be able to avoid anything that is in front/downhill of you.
There is a case in Switzerland at the moment where authorities are seeking some low life who has hit and injured a girl and skied off.
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It's not that different to driving really - every driver has an unconditional responsibility to avoid objects in front of them, but parking in the middle lane of the motorway or just round a bend on a country A Road is still a really bad idea
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| finestgreen wrote: |
| It's not that different to driving really - every driver has an unconditional responsibility to avoid objects in front of them, but parking in the middle lane of the motorway or just round a bend on a country A Road is still a really bad idea |
to a point I'd agree, the premise that you should only be travelling at a speed which allows you to stop as far as you can see applies quiet well, no hurtling over lips or rollers at 40,50 (or even 10) miles an hour if there is a chance that there will be someone you can't actually see just. The big problem with that analogy is that in driving everyone has a broadly well defined area to drive in - It's called a lane or a carriageway, I know the elf and safety folk are trying hard but I haven't seen lanes down the piste yet...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ansta1, true. I (imperfectly) try to follow the same principle with both: if any of the people around me were so inclined, could they deliberately cause an incident that a casual observer might blame on me?
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finestgreen, agreed. I guess the issue more prevalent now is that we don't all ski/board to a prescribed pattern, it's usually varied. Large and small radius turns, short little jump turns down the side of the piste. snowplough turn, traverse the width of the slope, repeat. So one mans sitting on the side of the slope is possibly the same as anothers sitting in the middle of the slope. I guess the important thing wherever you decide to stop is to stop in a place that gives people maximum decision time to pick an alternative line if you are in the planned one.
However that is no excuse for being out of control and on a slope beyond your level, though I would make a fair guess that we have all been there and done that at some time.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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You should be allowed to stop wherever you like.
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Don't agree with that. Traffic on the piste should keep moving as much as possible and if you are stopping go to the side.
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You could have a crash or an equipment failure which might result in you being on the piste. |
Fair enough in that situation but it's not the same as just stopping in the middle of the piste and/or over the crest of a hill to admire the scenery or to wait for your mates to catch up.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Interesting theories about why this week (ie the one after New Year) is busy. Our youngest is in his last year at school, so we are looking forward to being free at last from the hideous necessity of ski-ing at Christmas and half term, and the first week after NY was one I was planning on going, expecting it to be quiet. If the place is full of drunken student groups, may have to think again.
Whenever we make it over to Les Gets it seems to me to have an exceptionally high quota of young children, aged maybe 8 and under, on the slopes. I never thought of it as a stag-type destination.
For some reason it seems to be my wife who collects all the nutters, two or three times she has been mown down while waiting at the bottom or side of a piste, perhaps they aim for her as she is smaller than me.
Although I was once wiped out from behind going through one of those orange slalom-type "ralentir" barriers by a French gentleman who insisted he had priority because he was on the left. I put him right 
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| Quote: |
Although I was once wiped out from behind going through one of those orange slalom-type "ralentir" barriers
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Last week, I saw a boarder jump over one the ralentirs at the bottom of one of the runs into Tignes. Couldn't quite see what the aftermath was, but it looked a really dumb thing to do.
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it's not the same as just stopping in the middle of the piste and/or over the crest of a hill
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I came across a ralentir sign that had stopped in the middle of the piste and just over the crest of the hill. Possibly it was admiring the view.
Seriously, though, you could just see the top of it as you came hurtling down a flat, and it was all I could do to turn quickly enough to avoid landing in it.
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You know it makes sense.
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The way some people ski does terrify me, from the point of view of my kids. I'm 6ft+ and 17 stone so am likely to come off better in most collisions, but my girls are skinny little wraiths.
I suppose I probably skied like an idiot myself as a young bloke, but it does seem to be worse now.
I know there's a tendency to declinism, but I think skiing's a lot cheaper, relatively speaking, than it once was, so (it seems to me?) you get more lads groups, and we all know what lads are like for competing with each other, not showing any fear etc etc. Boarders are definitely worse than skiers in my experience - probably because it's perceived as more of an adrenaline sport? Most are fine, of course, but the few do spoil it for the rest.
I think speed limits and enforcement thereof are on the way in Europe. Having skied in the States and Canada it didn't bother me that they were around at all.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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You could have a crash or an equipment failure which might result in you being on the piste.
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Indeed, but a casualty on piste will normally quickly have crossed poles above and some people watching out for them. As for piste bashers, there is an absolute, cast-iron prohibition on their being anywhere on an open piste in my area. I think it's crazy that some places allow skiers and machinery on the same piste, often in conditions of poor vis. There have been more than one report of people being mashed by bashers in the last few years.  Let people learn to cope with uneven piste conditions rather than run that risk.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Taking the whole piste, edge to edge is downright stupid, it should be taught in lessons not to do so and always leave a "gateway" for others to pass as those wanting to pass are not always speeding idiots
I would agree that lessons are too expensive, the French are very proud and protective over the qualifications required to teach but this just pushes up prices and is counter productive.
Currently my brother is in bourg st maurice hospital with broken ribs, punctured lung and ruptured knee ligaments after being hit by a boarder on the 2nd day of a 2w holiday, last year he got a broken leg after being hit by a boarder.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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tangowaggon, very sorry to hear about your brother, that sounds miserable.
I don't agree that lessons are too expensive, though. €105 for 6 x 2 hour lessons is pretty reasonable, IMV (it's a bit more in the peak holiday weeks), as is €52 for a 1.5 hour private lesson for up to 3 people. Those are our local prices. The British ski schools (BASS etc) tend to be more expensive than the French ones. I just looked up Mayrhofen as a random Austrian example - €160 for 6 days of lessons, but that's 4 hour per day. Good value.
I don't think people skip lessons because of the money (especially when they are sinking obscene amounts of beer a day), they just think lessons where you are taught to control your speed are boring compared to hooning around on - or beyond - the verge of control.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've seen highway code-like info for skiiers posted around some resorts, covering many of the good practices being discussed here. However, I saw little evidence of this at Espace Killy last week, so maybe resorts have to get better at educating their visitors.
Personally, I take two approaches. If I'm above a slower/weaker skiier who is using a lot of slope, them I just slow down and speed past at the piste edge once they've turned away from it. If I become the slower skiier, then I'll just take a narrow line down the middle, or if I need wider turns then stick to one half of the piste, allowing the better skiiers plenty of room to get past me.
Just seems like common sense. Mind you, it doesn't stop the odd idiot getting too close to me as they go past.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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tangowaggon, ouch hope he makes a good recovery
I will admit to almost killing a pair of snowboarders once, they had decided to have a nap or perhaps given the haze over their heads a smoke of something other than tobacco, in the middle of a narrow piste just below a jump, I came over the jump (fortunately at a fair speed) and got the fright of my life looking down to see two people below me, if I'd been a little slower I'd have hit them (rather than go over them) with catastrophic results for all concerned.
If you want to stop for a break, weather its for a fag or drink or taking pictures or just cos you are tired please try to do so at the edge of the piste in a location where you can be seen from those approaching from above.
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| tangowaggon wrote: |
Taking the whole piste, edge to edge is downright stupid, it should be taught in lessons not to do so and always leave a "gateway" for others to pass as those wanting to pass are not always speeding idiots
I would agree that lessons are too expensive, the French are very proud and protective over the qualifications required to teach but this just pushes up prices and is counter productive.
Currently my brother is in bourg st maurice hospital with broken ribs, punctured lung and ruptured knee ligaments after being hit by a boarder on the 2nd day of a 2w holiday, last year he got a broken leg after being hit by a boarder. |
I am curious to know if any action was taken against the offending snowboarder in question in this case. I fail to see how the culprit could escape sanction when this happens. If you take somebody out in your car you are liable so why is snowboarding different?
BTW, some people need to use the whole width of the piste nor should doing so make you fair game. Simply ski around them - it ain't that hard and it is downright stupid not to do so. How would you (or your wife, kids etc) like to be taken out by a plonker?
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In both cases the boarder got up & rode off.
Yes it is always the responsibility of the skier approacing from above to avoid the slower skier but all skiers should avoid, where possible, skiing right to the edge of the piste and i still say it is stupid to suggest that a slower skier does so, just to stop others getting past
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yes it was wrong of me to say taking the whole piste, edge to edge is downright stupid, but still best avoided 
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| Geno wrote: |
BTW, some people need to use the whole width of the piste nor should doing so make you fair game. Simply ski around them - it ain't that hard and it is downright stupid not to do so. How would you (or your wife, kids etc) like to be taken out by a plonker? |
Easy enough to ski around one person - much harder to ski around a snake taking up the whole width at the same time!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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BTW, nobody ever seems to advise "Look up the slope as much as possible when you're standing still". Too obvious?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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^^from what I saw yesterday, eyeballs seemed to be in very short supply. Just about every single snowblader (all dutch), and 1 "teacher" (I think not a real teacher, just someone showing friends drills, or just a very wobbly teacher), and hence every single "student" in the class... all moved off, not a single one looked uphill.
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tangowaggon, sorry to hear about your brother, hope he makes a full recovery. That is extremely bad luck, being hit TWICE in two years.
| NeilMeredith wrote: |
Personally, I take two approaches. If I'm above a slower/weaker skiier who is using a lot of slope, them I just slow down and speed past at the piste edge once they've turned away from it. If I become the slower skiier, then I'll just take a narrow line down the middle, or if I need wider turns then stick to one half of the piste, allowing the better skiiers plenty of room to get past me.
Just seems like common sense. Mind you, it doesn't stop the odd idiot getting too close to me as they go past. |
Sounds like what I do. Must be a Fareham thing.
I agree, I saw plenty of dangerous behaviour in the EK in December.
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You know it makes sense.
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| jean claude mont blanc wrote: |
| Al snowboarders are homicidal maniacs who couldnt give a damn about anyone but themselves. All skiers are perfect in every way and never make mistakes or do anything detrimental to others. |
And if you ever come across a black or American or tall snowboarder......
More seriously if you're getting hit and it's a surprise then you can always benefit from a bit of situational awareness and use of elbow/multilingual uninhibited swearing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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fatbob, not really about situational awareness if you are hit from behind while hemmed in in a queue facing forwards, and hit with such force that you are on the ground before you know it. Difficult to use your elbow when you've just been injured. Unless you are so heavily built you can withstand such a hit - no aspersions on your moniker of course 
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Poster: A snowHead
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5RED, Yeah that's just weird. But a lot of collisions or near misses I see (usually from chairlifts) could be significantly mitigated by common sense on the part of the "victim". Generally I try to stop where I'm least likely to be hit when on piste cos of the muppet factor.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I am quite small - knee high to a grasshopper - and am always worried about huge great blokes, particularly those on boards who could just wipe me out.
I recall years and years ago being in a very disgruntled queue of people waiting to get back to the Super Morzine bubble and a great big bloke pushed in from the side of the queue and knocked me over - my daughter called over to him 'don't mess with my mum, she might be small but she is vicious when crossed' - turned out to be someone that had been on a BUSC trip with her. I think he just scuttled away.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Geno wrote: |
BTW, some people need to use the whole width of the piste nor should doing so make you fair game. Simply ski around them - it ain't that hard and it is downright stupid not to do so. How would you (or your wife, kids etc) like to be taken out by a plonker? |
A line of people snaking across the whole piste with no room to go safely between/past is very selfish - very different to just one person doing so.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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As a skier, then snowboarder, then back to skis - I would say it is a lot easier to get further up the mountain on a board than skis with minimal instructions. Sure you're doing it all wrong but what the hell you (I) could get down anything by just riding the back edge of the board down (scraping all the snow off to annoy skiers)
As has been pointed out - there are bad skiers and boarders, but in my experience it's easier to get out of your depth on a board.
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cran
cran
Guest
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I sometimes almost crash in to people who have stopped just downhill of crests... 
And it can be quite tricky finding gaps in the ski school snakes that go edge to edge of the piste, but on the plus side children are quite small and so skiing over them doesn't cause any significant problems...
PS: I don't really ski over small children...
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| NeilMeredith wrote: |
| I've seen highway code-like info for skiiers posted around some resorts, covering many of the good practices being discussed here. However, I saw little evidence of this at Espace Killy last week, so maybe resorts have to get better at educating their visitors. |
+1
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People don't need to be out of control to be idiots. Two days ago as I was very slowly going along a bit of a flat/low incline on my board, another boarder proceeded to slowly over take me, then suddenly (and intentionally..) cut right in front of me. So close in fact that the back of his board clipped the front of mine. 
And no apologies until I called him out..
No youngster, no show off, not even French! Just an idiot, perfectly in control..
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FAQ
I do hope your brother has a less stressful recovery (my b-i-l is fine now, by the way).