Given the number of people doing the training the other week, I wonder how often you would be able to use it with the club.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
2% pass rate.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
AndAnotherThing.. wrote:
Given the number of people doing the training the other week, I wonder how often you would be able to use it with the club.
more than you realise.
There's 34 resorts covered by the club,
lets say 13 weeks a year coverage
and most leaders will do between 2 and 3 weeks each.
34 resorts for 13 weeks is 442 leading weeks
say the average leader time is 2.5 weeks, and that's 176 leaders needed to cover a season.
There's just over 200 active leaders, so when you take into account last minute drop-outs, injuries or illness, as well as the leaders covering FreshTracks holidays, it's not as over-subscribed as it might seem.
Sorry, didn't realise there was some etiquette about where I post first. I've been lurking for a while, but chose this thread as one where I thought I had something to contribute. Thanks for the warm welcome
Welcome Actually most of the folk on Snowheads are really nice welcoming folk with maybe the odd exception (just like SCGB really). Both groups full of passion about skiing. So I'm often bemused when a form of tribalism seems to creep into these forums. I find the SCGB leading programme really useful, not that I feel a particularly need to be led or guided but it's a great way to meet up with a group of like minded skiers for a day or longer (just like a Snowhead Bash)
It's possible that some people attending a leaders' course may be driven by ego more than alturism, but my expereince is that they never make it as far as an actual leader's post. Indeed its not unknown for a leader to shed their blue jacket and spend their day off sharing an unguided day tour with fellow SCGB members they have met in resort
It was twenty years ago that I did the ski club leaders course and along with everyone else that did that course, I felt it was one of the most enjoyable ski trips that I have ever been on.
There is pressure to successfully complete the course if you want to become a ski club leader. On my course four or maybe five out of a total of forty five failed. They included a young bloke who was the son of the ski club chairman at the time, so there was clearly no sign of favouritism!
What people do not tell you is that the course is very sociable. When I went for my interview I was told that it was very intense, which it is, that there lectures and exercises in the evening, which there are and that there was "not much time for socialising". I nodded politely but had already been told the reality by people who had already done the course. When you arrive there are over forty mad keen skiers and there numerous nights in the bar, so it becomes a social stamina test as much as a skiing challenge. Nevertheless you are still expected to be outside the hotel by 9.00 a.m. every day if you want to pass the course.
As Stuart's video has shown , the course is taught, as it always has been, by some of the best instructors available on the British skiing scene, both on and off piste.
I made friends on that course with whom I stayed in touch with for a very long time, so I would say to the opening poster and anyone else who is considering it, that if you decied to go for it, you will not regret it.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
admin wrote:
zellmaniac wrote:
Excuse me for breaking in here but could you let us know what level is required?
I'm in my 50's and contemplating a lifestyle change once kids are finished with uni (a few years yet alas). It is something I have daydreamed about and wondered whether it is way beyond me.
Thanks
I don't think the benchmark is particularly high. Undoubtedly there are some seriously adept skiers within the ranks of the Tea Club reps but the couple of reps that I've skied with on their Tea Party days, when we plebby non-members are allowed to come along, were far from the strongest skiers in the group; limited by a slightly dated technique and, although well equipped, it was with less than ideal equipment. Naturally, I suggested they sought advice on these matters on snowHeads, which neither had heard of: really, what world are they living in?
I'm slightly surprised by that. From my experience of skiing with SnowHeads, I'd say that you are amongst the best of the snowHead skiers. However, at the top resorts where the Club thinks the high-standard days will be demanding, my experience of skiing with reps was that they appeared close to your standard,and in some exceptional cases were probably better. Now, I do accept that when we have been out skiing, there have been times when I have opted out of pitches you took on, so I am not best equipped to say what either you or the reps are like at optimum standard. But certainly, the reps I have been with have been well up for what they were required to do, and I think you give a somewhat unfair impression. I also accept that you can only judge by what you have seen, though; maybe you were unlucky.
PS For those who see me on the Birthday Bash, my gnarly days are over - but I used to enjoy them, and have had some cracking days out with admin!
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
snowball wrote:
Comedy Goldsmith,
+1
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
richjp, +1 A very good course, a lot of valuable stuff to learn, taught by some top instructors. Although it's hard work, it's a VERY enjoyable two weeks, and as you say, I've made some friends for life off it.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
achilles wrote:
admin wrote:
zellmaniac wrote:
Excuse me for breaking in here but could you let us know what level is required?
I'm in my 50's and contemplating a lifestyle change once kids are finished with uni (a few years yet alas). It is something I have daydreamed about and wondered whether it is way beyond me.
Thanks
I don't think the benchmark is particularly high. Undoubtedly there are some seriously adept skiers within the ranks of the Tea Club reps but the couple of reps that I've skied with on their Tea Party days, when we plebby non-members are allowed to come along, were far from the strongest skiers in the group; limited by a slightly dated technique and, although well equipped, it was with less than ideal equipment. Naturally, I suggested they sought advice on these matters on snowHeads, which neither had heard of: really, what world are they living in?
I'm slightly surprised by that. From my experience of skiing with SnowHeads, I'd say that you are amongst the best of the snowHead skiers. However, at the top resorts where the Club thinks the high-standard days will be demanding, my experience of skiing with reps was that they appeared close to your standard,and in some exceptional cases were probably better. Now, I do accept that when we have been out skiing, there have been times when I have opted out of pitches you took on, so I am not best equipped to say what either you or the reps are like at optimum standard. But certainly, the reps I have been with have been well up for what they were required to do, and I think you give a somewhat unfair impression. I also accept that you can only judge by what you have seen, though; maybe you were unlucky.
PS For those who see me on the Birthday Bash, my gnarly days are over - but I used to enjoy them, and have had some cracking days out with admin!
You're very kind but I know many many snowHeads who ski far better than I do.
As you say, I can only comment based upon my, rather limited, experience. On both occasions I'd have put the rep about mid-way on the scale of ability within the group. Ironically, one time, one of the people skiing better than the rep was an ex SCGB rep
As I said, I know there are some v.good skiers within their ranks: all reps are not the same. I just wanted to reassure the OP that if he's got £2.5k burning a hole in his pocket and he's up for an early season holiday, not being a 'world class' skier may not be an obstacle to the SCGB taking his money
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
admin wrote:
I just wanted to reassure the OP that if he's got £2.5k burning a hole in his pocket and he's up for an early season holiday, not being a 'world class' skier may not be an obstacle to the SCGB taking his money
Nor is it a barrier to becoming a leader. A certain competency is required, certainly but bear in mind part of that application process is a reference from either existing leaders with whom you've skied, or an instructor or guide to vouch for your skiing standard. If you're not good enough, they'll let you know.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
admin,
The skiing standard required is the ski club's purple standard both on and off piste, which is a bit higher than when I did the course. For anyone interested the definition can be found on the ski club's website, probably easiest found through the Freshtracks holiday section.
Describing someone's skiing technique is very subjective IMHO. Phil Smith of Snoworks as far as I know is in charge of the skiing coaching. Anyone that has skied with Snoworks, as I have on a number of occasions, most recently last week, will know that it may not be the most elegant skiing style in the view of some people. I assume the technique is based on BASI where Phil has had considerable influence and responsibility. Years ago I recall people talking about the "BASI gorilla" position, which may be a bit unfair but probably gives some idea of the style.
It's a technique which I believe really comes into its own the more demanding the terrain being skied and the more aggressively you attack that terrain. At that point I think it can be very impressive indeed and very dynamic. As Snoworks describe it, it is an all terrain technique.
I have also skied with plenty of continental mountain guides who have do not have the most aesthetic style. Being solid and safe is much more important.
Ski club leaders have to ski responsibly and endeavour to set a good example particularly with regard to safety. I found when leading intermediate groups that I often had to curb my natural inclination to go a bit faster. The leader has to take into account the ability of the slowest members of the group and may therefore ski well within their own ability level. Route finding and avoiding hazards when off piste is obviously important and leads to caution when leading.
Nowadays leaders have to take a refresher course of I think five days, to maintain their leader qualification, every five years. That should weed out those that have lost their fitness possibly due to them getting older or not skiing so regularly, which I think was sometimes a problem in some cases in the past.
The cost for the two week course in Tignes is currently £2,299 plus the cost, which is not stated, of a weekend first aid course with the BASP in the UK, so I assume that is where the total of £2.5K comes from.
Given the quality and duration of the instruction, I think the cost of the course In Tignes is reasonable if you compare it with the likes of a Snoworks or Warren Smith course of one week. (Those are the only two other organisations I have direct experience of.)
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
richjp wrote:
leader qualification
Is a non-transferable qualification really a qualification at all?
I'd be much happier if my club was in the business of training ski instructors and those who wish to be properly qualified (i.e. internationally recognised) to lead people off piste. Maybe a merger with BASI, in these very challenging times, would be a good idea for both organisations. Maybe it's something worth exploring.
What I don't want is any more liability, legal and insurance hassles. I suspect that they cost me a chunk of my £60 subscription, and I'd rather that this isn't spent on lining lawyers' pockets.
As a 9-year-old in 1962, I encountered a Ski Club rep who put me through a bronze medal skiing test at the end of a week's skiing (regarded as tougher than the Swiss 'tourist' bronze medal test). Along with plenty of other children.This was great, and I wore the badge with pride. Over the years I was aware of how many skiers the SCGB reps were recruiting to membership in resorts, and how many of them were doing these tests - up to the extremely demanding 'gold' standard (for which you had to ski breakable crust).
In the months leading up to the SCGB closing its open forum in Feb 2004 I recall asking an expenses-paid SCGB rep, who'd served for 3 weeks in Whistler, how many new members had been recruited? Three.
If Ski Club repping principally exists these days to take people off piste, with all the associated risks and issues involved in this, I don't think this is sensible. It may explain why no other national skiing organisation anywhere else in the world chooses to do this. If it was a good idea, maybe they would have copied it by now!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Comedy Goldsmith,
I think you should call yourself Tragedy Goldsmith.
You are getting worse.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
richjp, as I've falsely said on another thread, I'm getting nurse not worse. Behave yourself, please!
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
Actually most of the folk on Snowheads are really nice welcoming folk with maybe the odd exception (just like SCGB really). Both groups full of passion about skiing. So I'm often bemused when a form of tribalism seems to creep into these forums. I find the SCGB leading programme really useful, not that I feel a particularly need to be led or guided but it's a great way to meet up with a group of like minded skiers for a day or longer (just like a Snowhead Bash)
