 Poster: A snowHead
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| cathy wrote: |
| There was a black in Westendorf which had a 'beware' sign and I'm sure it was marked 80% - it runs under the Alpenrose gondola. The OH whizzed down and said it was fine. I don't know what that is in degrees. |
Is there? I certainly missed it (in my 1 day in Westendorf). We did what I thought was the only black in Westendorf, as you say, roughly following the Alpenrose gondola (top half), but it seemed fairly tame, a red really. Everything else in Westendorf is about 10deg. There's an allegedly 70% (~35deg) slope in Kitzbuhel, which is usually fine as it's wide and pisted.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| snowball wrote: |
| DB, the inbounds was all hard moguls when I was there - Corbets was hard and rutted in a way which prevented you turning across the slope when you landed, and a sort of trench by the rock face. I was with people who had skied it before and, like me, none of them fancied it as it was. I gather one person (the nephew of one of the instructors) did ski it. |
Yes realize it's one to do depending on the conditions - I'd of given it a miss too. Would like to get there one day when the conditions are right and give it a go.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| richmond wrote: |
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| a snowmobile will fall off a 65 degree slope. |
Where will it fall to? |
Australia?
Actually they have to winch up the top of the Ourse black at Les Arcs.
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snowball, I can see that a snowmoblile (or anything else, including me) might fall down a 65deg slope, but I find it hard to imagine one falling off the slope.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| snowball wrote: |
| Actually they have to winch up the top of the Ourse black at Les Arcs. |
I didn't realise that. Is that slope steep enough to require winching? I'm sure I've seen pistebashers on steeper slopes without winches (M in Courchevel springs to mind).
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As others have said, it's easier to find extremely steep in-bounds skiing in North America. Even Panorama with its family-friendly image has several runs in the Extreme Dream Zone that are widely quoted as being above 40 degrees.
Interestingly, I've found that the steepest run there, Orca, never seems to develop moguls even though it's always ungroomed and it's skied pretty frequently. Does anyone know if there's a maximum pitch beyond which bumps don't form - perhaps due to poor snow adhesion?
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| Jonpim wrote: |
Accoridng to Better Skiing "The gradient needs to be more than 45 degrees to be considered steep, and from 55 to 70 degrees to be extreme. Don't try anything more than 55 degrees to start with."
The Courchevel Couloirs are quoted at 38 degrees, and I understand they are considered quite steep (never tried them) - what the hell is 55 degrees like?  |
I did a small 55-deg couloir in Chamonix recently.
It is almost impossible to stand still on the slope and the best you can hope for is a controled slide from edge to edge.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Quote:
a snowmobile will fall off a 65 degree slope.
Where will it fall to?
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The snowmobile in this case cannot climb up.
Most 4x4 on firm ground cannot go beyond 45 degree. The sheer weight of the machinery will overcome any frictional resistance available from such gradient.
At 45 degree the vertical and horizontal side is 1 to 1 and the hypotenuse is 1.414. Thus the gravity force is 1/1.414 = 0.7. If the snow is able to hold the snowmobile then it friction resistance has to be 0.7 too. Most snow has a [url=http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2007/TabraizRasul.shtml]coefficient of friction[url] about 0.02 to 0.6 depending how it is compacted and the sliding material.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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my brain is starting to hurt - I think it may be about to fall off
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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to give people an idea this is looking down a 40 degreeish slope
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What's that general rule of thumb regarding if you stand perpendicular to the slope and can touch it with your hand/pole etc. ? Does anyone remember?
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You know it makes sense.
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richmond, the one in Kitzbuhel is run 38 Direttisima. The warming sign says 77% gradient. I absolutely hated it although I did get down without falling over. I have a pathological fear of black piste markers anyway. If it had had a red piste marker I probably wouldn't have minded it...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
Quote:
cathy,
There was a black in Westendorf which had a 'beware' sign and I'm sure it was marked 80%
80% is 38.65degrees which is really pretty steep
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We saw this sign as well. It did say 80%. We didn't find anything really steep on it. It does deserve its grading as a black though. Was the best run over the week, probably because the sun came out when we did it and we could see where we were going!
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Poster: A snowHead
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To answer the OP..does it matter...does anyone care that much..? If you fancy it, you'll ski it, if you don't then avoid it.
And if you end up there, you'll know the value of a bomb-proof side-slip should you need it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What scares me most about steep is the feeling if you fall, your slide may continue for a hell of a long time
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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JT, wouldn't have fancied trying to side slip the Tunnel moguls when I was there. And bearing in mind the Tunnel, I do eye up steep slopes quite carefully before I take them on - using 35° as a benchmark. But then, I am incredibly old - and am aware my bones can break. 
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| Alexandra wrote: |
| What's that general rule of thumb regarding if you stand perpendicular to the slope and can touch it with your hand/pole etc. ? Does anyone remember? |
It's 'If you stand upright (relative to the world in general) and you can touch the slope with your slopeside hand, it's bloody steep. if you can touch the slope with your other hand, you've fallen over.'.
Also, 'If you can stand perpendicular to the slope and can touch it with any part of your body except your feet, you're a freak and you should be in a circus.'.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| richmond, the one in Kitzbuhel is run 38 Direttisima. |
That's the one. A worse named piste would be hard to imagine, as far from being direct, it does a huge dogleg halfway down and becomes a different piste for a while.
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| Quote: |
queen bodecia wrote:
richmond, the one in Kitzbuhel is run 38 Direttisima.
That's the one. A worse named piste would be hard to imagine, as far from being direct, it does a huge dogleg halfway down and becomes a different piste for a while.
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Yup, the one my wife bounced down. Horrible and icy at the time. Glad to hear it is now better signposted.
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Are steeper slopes inclined to have less forgiving snow on them, because of the steepness and gravity, snow is brushed off, falls off etc leading to v firm snow or ice.
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beequin, the sign (if it's the one I'm thinking of) is where you enter the piste about 2/3 of the way down via a little track past the bottom of the (I think) Jufenalm chair. The main entries don't say anything SFAIK. It is quite steep in parts, but it's wide and usually flat (although not when I was in Kitzbuhel last month). It does get very hard, though, and falling could be a bad idea.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It was a few years since we were there (about 20), but some things last long in the memory. Fortunately the result was only a few bruises.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| kendub wrote: |
| Are steeper slopes inclined to have less forgiving snow on them, because of the steepness and gravity, snow is brushed off, falls off etc leading to v firm snow or ice. |
Not in my experience - ie for slopes up to 35°.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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achilles,
Steeper piste slopes probaly have the snow scraped off...by sheer volume of traffic...so the problem would be grip ...
On steep off-piste slopes, there might be lots of snow there..which depending on its condition, might either help or hinder.
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| davidof wrote: |
Oregon - there is no steep skiing in Oregon.
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some of the lines into Heather Canyon at Mt Hood Meadows have decent 40 degree pitches - measured with my clinometer
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You know it makes sense.
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JT, I take your point about on-piste steep slopes being worn by volume of traffic - but that can apply even to reds (as I found out last week at Wengen). It does depend on resort and location - even at LDA, for example, Y is fairly steep, and seems to stay in remarkably good condition. I suppose that because the sun is on it quite a while, which keeps it from going rock-solid, and for reasons which elude me, it was not anything like as popular as Valentin, when I was in resort in January.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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achilles,
sorry, meant that as a reply to kendub.........
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Poster: A snowHead
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Apart from Wear The Fox Hats (wrong) attempt nobody seems to have actually answered the question 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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JT, OK.
rich, I think the consensus has emerged that abut 35° is the maximum steepness in Europe - though Westendorf may have one steeper. And the US has a few that are steeper still.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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are we talking groomed or just marked??
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davidof,
A very good illustration of the 40 degree!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| barry wrote: |
| are we talking groomed or just marked?? |
and average or peak?
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barry, marked. Not all pistes are groomed - I don't think the Tunnel is.
gortonator, peak.
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achilles, so Harikari in Mayrhofen is 38 degrees peak, I assume ... groomed
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Like most things in life the angle will be disappointingly smaller than you imagine, with 45 degrees being quite an oppressive angle.
Another thing is that however steep and nasty it looks in real life it will look flat in a photograph.
I fell down a steep short cut bit in the Grands Massif in the new year (slipped when stopping for a rest!). That looked sick from the lift due to the wonders of foreshortening. It also looked very steep when at the bottom. I started walking up to collect one of my skis and it was like a steep set of stairs. Still probably only 40 deg or maybe a bit more though.
Any idea what the Swiss Wall is at the top?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FAQ
(and correcting my last, it's the piste bashers not the Ourse they have to winch up)
So I can't really help there I'm afraid. Perhaps any Westendorf regulars could refresh my memory...
Right then, I'm clearly picking the "'orrible line" - still, the snow's nicer where nobody else goes. 
