Had a quick practice with a new ARVA Evo3+ from Decathlon. Very easy to use and the range seemed the same as the Tracker DTS.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Always laugh at the "get a metal blade" comments. My old red Lexan ortovox shovel has been used in earnest for nearly 10 years now and hasnt a mark on it. Snow caves, test pits and even used in the garden accasionally. It faired FAR better in ice than a mates aluminium shovel blade that folded when it hit the rock solid ice. The lexan blade was used as a pickaxe to chip at it fine. Ortovox guarantee its unbreakable and the edge is plenty sharp enough even now. Oh and it doesnt get as cold as metal so its great for sitting on, and I even have an ice saw that goes on the same handle
Its not what the blade is made of thats importance its how well its made, there are good and bad shovels in all materials, and plastic can be a fair bit lighter
Oh and also consider a Snowclaw, great in anything over than rock solid snow and can shift a lot more snow than a shovel. Acts as a seat, a back protector in your rucksack and a splint. I always carry one
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
madmole wrote:
Its not what the blade is made of thats importance its how well its made, there are good and bad shovels in all materials, and plastic can be a fair bit lighter
Fair point, and glad to hear that plastic has worked well for you. However, I think the general consensus would be that you are less likely to get such robust use from a plastic shovel than a good quality aluminium one.
Today I had a practice for the first time with my transceiver( a Tracker) up in the fresh snow at Courmayeur, courtesy of a local English-speaking guide (the husband of an English friend).
A salutary experience all round, and I feel slightly better prepared and know some of the potential mistakes. I definitely feel the need to practise some more, as anybody buried today wouldn't have been very well after _I_ got to them! I'm not a back-country skier but still a useful skill and piece of equipment to have...
Driving home on the snow was another useful skill!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Good, keep practicing until it's second nature. If possible, practice on old avalanche snow, so it's as realistic as possible.
I like the tracker 2, nice piece of kit. Nothing overly fancy about it, no bells and whistles, just gives you what you need.
OK, the mistake I made was in the final stages. I got to the area pretty quickly but then faffed arounnd trying to pin-point the exact location using the distance indicator on the tracker. Bear in mind I wasn't looking for a body but a small packet/bag, but even so I'd have been better off getting out the probe earlier as the location was correct. Don't forget also that the distance shown also includes a depth component, doh!
But that's what training is for!
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
And dont forget you may have to deal with spikes so you may get a small high above the victim with a low one/either side unless you have a top of the range beeper
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
It gets much harder when there are 2 or more burials. It can get very confusing. Also if people ski past who are wearing transcievers!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
.. or the supervising guide is wearing an ARVA too..
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Snow Conrad are doing some discount packages at the moment for transceivers/shovels/probes. If you want some training they do courses at the top of Arcabulle in the Les Arcs 2000 bowl
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
It's a lot more effort, but when practicing, burying a rucksack with a transceiver quite deeply is a way more realistic. It will enable the skills of probing and digging to also be practiced, which are important to a speedy rescue.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
evski wrote:
madmole wrote:
Its not what the blade is made of thats importance its how well its made, there are good and bad shovels in all materials, and plastic can be a fair bit lighter
Fair point, and glad to hear that plastic has worked well for you. However, I think the general consensus would be that you are less likely to get such robust use from a plastic shovel than a good quality aluminium one.
I tried digging in avalanche debris with an Ortovox plastic shovel once (thankfully in a practice session). Complete waste of time, it would have been quicker to use a ski had that been the only shovel available. Snow sets rock hard after an avalanche, it's bl**dy hard work even with a metal blade.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I've dug avalanche debris many times with the old red lexan blade, no different from using Ali blade. Can't say that the newer orange ortovoxes Are any good, haven't used them but the old red one is fine
Of its that hard I use the saw to cut blocks, far faster than shovelling
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
madmole wrote:
I've dug avalanche debris many times with the old red lexan blade, no different from using Ali blade. Can't say that the newer orange ortovoxes Are any good, haven't used them but the old red one is fine
Of its that hard I use the saw to cut blocks, far faster than shovelling
My negative experience was with the old red lexan blade. It's fine for digging out the car, and the plastic won't scratch the paint work so easily too, so not all bad.
Lift faffer, only if you think it's worth paying £100 for a shovel and probe
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
+1 for the Arva Evolution 3 at Decathalon - seems to be the best bet cost/performance-wize. Tempted by the Zoom but £50 is £50 and I don't see any significant difference on paper betweeen the Zoom and the Evo3. Alos the Evo3 does 'multiples' whereas I am not sure the Zoom does.
Don't think this one has been linked yet... avalanche.ca shovel review. Only looks at metal-bladed shovels, and not all of them faired well!
As regards plastic shovels... what's the point? Things like the Voile XLM (reviewed well above) are as light as, if not lighter than, many plastic shovels and you can get em for as little as £32 in the UK. There's a whole bunch of aluminium shovels out there for well under £60 and sub-600g. So what's the benefit of plastic?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Serriadh, that shovel review is rather out of date though (2008).
After all it is free
After all it is free
meh wrote:
Serriadh, that shovel review is rather out of date though (2008).
The model-specific reviews might not be so relevant now, but all of the general conclusions as regards shovel construction, blade geometry and materials remain entirely valid... especially the fact that a shovel being made of metal does not imply that it is a particularly good tool.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Lift faffer wrote:
Is this a good package? It doesnt have a bag but description says shovel will fit in most backpacks.
Had a quick practice with a new ARVA Evo3+ from Decathlon. Very easy to use and the range seemed the same as the Tracker DTS.
Thanks for the heads up on the deal.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
rogg, Thanks for the mention!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:
So what's the benefit of plastic?
£7.50 and it works fine? Bare flesh doesn't stick to it? Not so much grief if it ever fails? Whole argument entirely irrelevant since it actually depends on the muppet wielding said implement more than what the implement is made of when the chips are down?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
A great thread.
chaletgirl asking the right questions, getting lots of helpful answers, and making sensible decisions.
For what it is worth, here are my reccommendations ...
When you can afford one, the DTS Tracker is the best first transceiver (I use them for my clients).
But you can hire transceivers in most resorts, & if skiing with a guide, they will supply for a nominal cost.
Similarly for the shovel & probe.
Probe, any but don't go for a cheapo short one.
Shovel, get a metal one (endless debates on here, but nobody has ever said they are worse than plastic)
Ruc-sac, First Aid Kit
Its all expensive, but will last a life-time, unlike your equally expensive skis & boots.
But above all TRAINING
Its better to not get caught in the first place.
And knowing what to do if it does happen saves lives.
... and don't forget First Aid Training - digging them out then watching them die anyway is extra distressing.
Any questions, feel free to message me
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Alan McGregor wrote:
And knowing what to do if it does happen saves lives.
... and don't forget First Aid Training - digging them out then watching them die anyway is extra distressing.
A good and often neglected point. Basic CPR, for example, is relatively easy and can be very effective if done properly. Look at Mwamba- CPR for an hour, now right as rain (although admitedly he wouldn't have had the prolonged hypoxia and hypercapnia before rescuscitation of a typical avalanche victim).
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
There is some great points coming out here, my personal mantra is all about not getting avalanched in the first place which is all about training and application. Group discipline both when skiing and if the poo-poo hits the fan is key.
One small point is transceiver batteries, take them out at the end of the season and chuck them. New ones at the start, and never try to conserve batteries by turning the unit on and off during the day.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Very good advice about batteries.
Don't use rechargeable ones, buy decent normal ones.
Searching absolutely eats battery life.
I don't let mine get below 50%, and carry a spare set.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
A fact I didn't appreciate until recently is that you should also avoid lithium batteries, as they can lead to false high power reading from the transceiver. At least according to this video from "The Avalanche Guys" (who by the way post some top educational stuff on youtube- they're well worth subscribing to if you like that sort of thing. For example, some really nice demos of buried surface hoar being revealed by column tests in some of their recent vids):
Based on the various comments about how chuffing hard avalanche debris can be, when you push a probe down a) how does it go past those lumps of rock hard snow? and b) how can you tell the difference between hitting a lump of snow and a person?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Monium wrote:
Based on the various comments about how chuffing hard avalanche debris can be, when you push a probe down a) how does it go past those lumps of rock hard snow? and b) how can you tell the difference between hitting a lump of snow and a person?
You'll know.
People tend to be squishy rather than hard.
A good test to get an idea is to bury a rucksack. It's not identical but it does give you a good comparison.
To get it past the rock hard lumps, it might need two or three hard pushes. I was involved in the probing on the avalanche that first week in Tignes. We were using the pisteur's 5m long probes, even with their extra weight it still took a couple of attempts to get penetration.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
