Difficulty of black runs in Val d'Isere?

A snowHead

Leisse or Descente on the grande motte. They are very gentle for blacks, really no more than red, fairly empty and usually have good forgiving snow.
As to what NOT to try; I would leave Trolles until you are very confident on blacks and don't mind slaloming around other terrified skiers/boarders.

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Trolles is easy, it doesn't have moguls on it!

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Moguls are easy.

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Small ones are, giant frozen-solid ones are not.

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First time I went to Tignes there were only two black runs on the map for Tignes they were a long black from the top of Toviere to Lac which was basically Paquerettes plus Trolles and the bit inbetween. Trolles was I think more difficult then as they have widened the slope where there was a bottle neck which created some pretty shelvey moguls. The other was Sache (There was also a very short black marked on a slalom pitch just above Lac). All the rest of the runs in Tignes that are now black were red then. The V d'I side has been pretty much unchanged for blacks. Though evrything now is a lot more groomed most reds had a fairly extensive collection of bumps on them.

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Don't think it's a case of supply and demand but ability to run the lift? As I stated earlier I've hardly ever seen that lift run and certainly never seen the tunnel open.

After all it is free

I think I only went up that lift once or twice and I can only recall going through the tunnel once many many years ago.
Sadly I think volklwaffen, is right, they appear to remove more and more blacks each year and bash the pistes harder and harder. I suppose it preserves the snow better but it does tend to make the skiing bland. I skied in Champoluc a few years ago and there every piste even the blacks were bashed very smooth every night. Either it created a style of skiing of flat out helmeted and body armoured skiers or it was specifically created for them but nevertheless it got a bit of a much of a muchness after a short while.
Long live Natur pistes

T Bar, Trolles was also made easier in 99/2000 when all the spoil from the new underground car park was dumped at the bottom reducing the gradient on the bottom half of the last pitch - but on the positive side it made it easier to schuss to the middle of the village. A 2CV was driven up the track and rolled down when they had finished.

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Golf (naturide run) was possibly one of the steepest slopes i feel like I've ever done - looked up at it and went how the **** did I get down that? No Idea if it's actually that steep or not but I haven't been skillfull enough or confident on blacks until too recently TBH! But it was the best run I've ever done, was so so much fun. Face I did as well and found top half of it brilliant fun but it was tough as it was rock solid but I managed to make it down without too much beef and had we had fresh snow I would so have done it again. Can't remember which runs are in which places but did Trolles which was good but long!

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La Face .. Half of it anyway, has never been better than Xmas last year. Heavy snow fell throughout the night and morning. No lifts were running in Ek. However they opened Bellevarde Express and about twenty or so of us got on before they decided to close the lifts for the day. Thigh deep untracked awaited us. Awesome !!

patricksh, +1

You know it makes sense.

One of reasons golf is so good is you gotta get bus back. You get so spoilt in EK skiing right onot fast chair for next run you start avoiding this one cos you gotta wait for bus. Therefore less tracked, more likely still powder within the piste markers. I think it is quite steep in some sections too not sure how it compares to eg Face though

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

i've found that the worst bit of the epaule de charvet is the approach to the top when it hasn't been bashed for a few days. big icy moguls on a narrow track with a drop to the left. if it gets a bit busy, ie clogged with beginners who have taken it because santons is closed due to avalanche risk, it can be pretty unpleasant. once on the piste proper it's a convex slope, so the further you get down it the steeper it gets which can throw people. that and the sometimes huge moguls which can feel almost vertical off their back edges!

since we were staying on the transport route connecting the bottom of it to the bottom of solaise last year, so it was our choice of final run and always made us feel we fully deserved a cold beer or 2 afterwards!

the face is a wonderful non-stop run from top to bottom first thing in the morning and a good challenge later on in the day as the moguls develop.

@finestgreen, i'm not sure what others would think but la sache has a wonderful back country feel and for much of it is blue/red, with the steep sections mostly nearer the bottom, which are quite steep but we took a couple of 2-weekers down it last year and they loved it.

A snowHead

Is there a standard for labelling runs? The reason I ask is that there seems to be a great variance of opinion above as to whether or not certain runs are worth their grading. There's one short run in Les Arcs called ‘Clair Blanc’ just to the right on the main run after you exit the mass of chair lifts at L'Arpette. It's classed as a red but the top section is nearly always skied off, narrow, mogully and relatively steep. There are plenty of black runs in the resort that don't get as tough as that top section but year in, year out they keep marking it up as a red. I assume it's some sort of sadistic joke that the piste guys like to play on the uninitiated as the start of the run is off a motorway liaison blue that nearly all the beginners use to go between Les Arcs 1950/2000 and Les Arcs 1600/1800/La Plagne. Every time I ski round the run (in deference to the bases of my skis) I see terrified wannabe intermediates desperately looking for a run off and realising THERE IS NO ESCAPE! On consideration, the slope might not be skied off, it could have just been stained that colour by the aforementioned wannabe intermediates.

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Ski runs are all the same colour - white !

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finestgreen, For someone progressing onto blacks I'd say Trolles as its usually well groomed, quite short and there is only one gnarly bit in it and you can always wimp off onto the blue down the side. Sache is nice too and usually quiet....however, there are moguls in a few sections (reasonably steep in one bit) and there isn't really much option of wimping out.

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Hm, so Trolles has appeared on both the "good idea" and "bad idea" list! I suppose that's a sign it wasn't a very good question. Puzzled

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Tordi, YOu can also break off right down the red run arcosses to avoid the last (and IMHO hardest) steep pitch.

grazzenger, Generally I would agree but having experienced a day when fog had come up the valley and frozen to the last steep pitch it was just about impossible - always worth having a look from below on a warm up run into brev.

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chocksaway, Oh yeah suppose you can, my mistake. Sache was fairly gnarly last time I did it. Busy week, 15C and no new snow for over a week meant LARGE porridge moguls littered with pine cones, rocks and small french children.

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finestgreen, OK, here's a pic of the final, steep bit of Trolles. For most of the run, up to the part you can see in the photo, it's no more than a blue run.

Just above the final steep bit, the piste narrows and gets a bit steeper and it can get mogully and blocked with nervous early-intermediates. However there is an 'escape path' which you can see and a run-off to skier's right which avoids the final steep pitch if you don't fancy it. The final bit doesn't really get bumpy and there is a long run out.

With conditions as they were in this pic it was super-easy, and empty!

I'd say it's a good one to try!

After all it is free

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RattytheSnowRat, you are right about clair blanc- it is the hardest run in les Arcs, and there are some decent blacks there. However, this thread is about Val d'Isere

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Piccadilly, that looks really easy

patricksh, fair point - my question was about a general grading system for pistes i.e. is it all local and subjective or is there any attempt to get some objectivity into the process, the illustration was just the best I could think of to illustrate the need, not the practice. Apologies if I butted in - I'll make a pilgimage to ValD this year in penance Crying or Very sad

Did my first ever black in January in Tignes. Started with Leisse then Trolles; all went smoothly.

Then did 2 unpisted ones (can't remember name- they're the only 2 runs accessed from an old chair) which were good fun. Was starting to think blacks aren't so scary after all....then I did Golf Shocked

That was steep! Ended up traversing the hill and going off piste to avoid one v steep section.

Back this Jan so hopefully get done it without wimping out! Very Happy

You know it makes sense.

Trolles into Tignes under the Aeroski!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Of the blacks I've skied in EK, I have to say the drop off into the top of Grizzly (if you go straight over the back from the top of the chairlift) is the most "atmospheric". Not quite Corbet's couloir, but not bad.

A snowHead

I should have said.............. under the Areoski......... snowHead

A snowHead

RattytheSnowRat, the last pitch is steepish, but yes, it's easy.

MCL, hmmm. I like a challenge.

evski, I'm now mentally crossing that one off the list....

So my mission is to ski Epaule, Piste S and Rhone-Alps in Val, and a couple of the blacks in Tignes I've not done, maybe Golf and Guerlain Chicherit.

I need to get better on the steep stuff!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Piccadilly, in preparation for the really steep stuff, you have to work hard on rotatory movements and upper/lower body separation. If you have a dry slope nearby, lots of short swings are a good idea. Also, a lot of it is psychological- focus on making the turn, not on what might happen if you don't.

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I've not skied EK in winter for, must be 13 years, but i remember Sache, the day in question it had the biggest and deepest moguls ive ever seen, there were gapers all over the place tripping/falling/rolling and walking down. it was hard work

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Huckacliff duckabranch, conditions on Sache can vary considerably to say the least!

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After all it is free

^ 38 degrees was Harakiri at Mayrhofen which was like looking down a wall, and it's also pretty short. I didn't get the same impression looking down Trolles...would be interested to know though!

Can anyone describe where the tunnel is on the piste map? I have been looking on google earth as well and cant find any mention yet. I am guessing that there must be a picture on there, but it is like finding a needle in a haystack

Cheers
Smag

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Difficulty of black runs in Val d'Isere?

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