 Poster: A snowHead
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abc,
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Early morning right after the piste was groomed?
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actually no was about 12 noon, one of those strange moments, we stopped for coffee and I notice that behind us there was a fenced off pisted area, so managed to place the skis uphill of us and take the photo over a large inflatable tube!!!!!
clarky999,
yep very lots of big bear love here for these skis
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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clarky999, Didn't realise we were talking about piste orientated skis, but as a proud owner of a the new 99 , I would say its more than capable on piste , and is excellent off piste. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| abc wrote: |
I'm not looking at 'piste' skis that goes off-piste occasionally.
At most, I'm looking at 50/50 use skis |
Those are the ones I was talking about i.e. 80-90 mm waist with subtle early rise tips. Not Movement Flyswatter territory. Tip rocker, early rise or whatever you want to call it is generally a positive thing (that's why every manufacturer is going that way for anything other than pure piste carvers) and it makes boogger all difference to the effective contact length on piste. It just makes them a bit slower to hook up. Only seriously clown-rockered powder specific models have significantly less contact length on piste - you know the ones you can see flapping about in the wind. I don't even notice the fairly significant rocker on my Line SFBs (probably a 30/70 ski at most) apart from a tighter turning radius than you might expect from the geometry. It's all good from my perspective.
As for dedicated piste skis, I'm sticking with conventional camber. Just bought a pair of Movement Le-Fers for that task. For a 50/50 all-rounder I'd probably go for the Movement Jams. Great ski with or without rocker.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The reason I'm a bit obssesed with the rocker length has to do with having to figure out which length of ski to get, if and when I finally arrive at that junction.
I'm not one who demo exhaustively before buying. I'm also not terrily sensitive to the characteristic of skis, as long as they're in the right range of length. It's a compromise anyway. But as a light weight, I AM sensitive to ski length. Too short, I have trouble with for-aft balance in choppy snow. Too long, I have trouble flexing it, like, in the moguls.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just get the same length you normally would have then. Most manufacturers are offering their new rockered skis in the same range of lengths as they did before anyway. Nothing has really changed in the length department
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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My current skis are now only marginally long enough (I ski faster and into more challenging terrain compare to when I bought them). So take a bit of that marginally long enough contact length out to become rocker, you can understand why it's a bit of a concern from my angle.
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abc, I'd just go one size up then... maybe 5cm - 10cm longer.
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I won't hesitate to go up 5cm. I was thinking of that amount even before this "rocker" business hit the scence.
But some models don't have that size. The next size up is 10 or 12 cm from what I currently have. I'll have to ski them before I buy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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abc, Seriously, 10cm is only 4 inches, it's not that much difference on top of what you already have. That's what I tell women anyhow  Buy 'em, if you find them a little long then just learn to use them properly and catch up in a week. It won't be a problem. A ski that will handle powder isn't gonna be the best in the moguls, I'd say just learn to live with it and adapt your technique to cope with them. I do find that twin tips help in the bumps a great deal when using fatter skis.
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| Scarpa wrote: |
| abc, Seriously, 10cm is only 4 inches, it's not that much difference on top of what you already have. |
4" is a lot when you're talking about 155cm to start with!
On piste, I've skied a lot longer skis (even without counting the "old school" of 180 straight ones). It's not just the length, it's the also flex that I'm a little worry about. I'm light for my height already and don't (not usually anyway) ski blazingly fast.
That said, yes, I'd err on the long side. I can adapt better at longer skis than I'm at too short ones. And with the rockers, most of them ski a bit shorter than their overall length compare to traditional design anyway. Might work in my favor.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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abc, I've been wedded to my Atomic (163/4 Metron 10 ti) for many years and have just moved onto the 2011 Salomon Enduro 170/83/ which I was nervous about for the same reasons as you. They really do ski short and I'm now happily divorced from the Atomic's even though I have remaining guilt as they've been so good to me 
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clarky999, will do a short review of my first outing in japan on the 99,s when i five min tomorrow , they were the dogs !@£$%^& 
abc, lots of people say about the effective length of skis when the rocker factor is taken into account , and so when i bought my first pair of off piste skis ( HSFR ) i went much longer than any other ski i had owned . up from 165cm to 186 cm , but whilst effective length is one thing , actual physical length is another and i really struggled with just how long these ski looked on the end of my feet  i didnt feel i could manoever them in tight spaces, so ended up getting rid and going for a full on powder ski at 176 cm (kastle mx 108) and an every day piste/off piste/variable condition ski at 168 cm (dps wailer 99 ) and i will now only use the kastles on a true powder day , as altough i could ski them on piste they were hard work , but the 99,s seem to me to be the perfect compromise in every condition i skied them in , and even though some people question the length of the ski for a powder orientated ski , i can honestly say for me being able to feel like i can turn these skis on a sixpence in any snow , far outweighs my desire to make massive radius high speed turns in the off piste or on piste 
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You know it makes sense.
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for me being able to feel like i can turn these skis on a sixpence in any snow , far outweighs my desire to make massive radius high speed turns in the off piste or on piste
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carbon_copy, having skied for years on straight skis of 180cm, I have no problem swinging a long ski. 
But morden skis are a lot stiffer. So longer skis aren't really just longer. They're also stiffer. The rocker design messes up things quite a bit in that. Now the skis that SHOULD BE in the right size/flex for me has a tad shorter contact length. Bit of a problem when I do open up the speed brake a bit on smooth piste. But going up a size could potentially put me on a ski too skiff for my weight.
(Granted, there're girlie skis that are a tad softer at the same length --and I AM a girlie so no worry about getting strange looks. But I'd like to avail myself to both unisex and girlie skis for maximum options)
If it seems I'm over-analysising it, it's because I'm hoping to end up with a ski with as large a terrain & condition range as possible (given a fixed skier skill).
In a week of holiday, I may be blasting around the coral reef piste at (semi-)high speed the first day, cruising the powdery haven the next couple, trees the next day or two, then back to coral reef piste followed by slushy bumps! I know a lot of skiers who ski diverse conditions end up bringing more than 1 pair. But skis had improved enough that it seems like it's quite possible to end up with one that will do all that! (I had occasionally squeeze 2 pairs of skis into my sportube once or twice in order to manage such varied conditions. But to be honest it's really quite hard)
I hope this explain why I'm not looking at full on powder or full on piste skis, just a mixed used ski with a slight emphasis on soft snow (not just powder but all sort of soft snow -- bumps, trees, wind packed pistes), yet without being a total disaster on icy pistes. And due to the conflicting requirements, the length can be a key factor to getting the full range of capability out of that one single pair of skis.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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You're over complicating your choice. Do you want a rockered ski or not? If you do, then buy one at either the length you are used to and don't worry too much about lost contact length (it usually isn't a problem with the mild early rise you get on the latest 50/50 skis) or buy a length longer and live with the extra length, stiffness. If you're looking at more off-piste oriented models (say 70/30) then a longer length is probably the way to go anyway for all the obvious reasons. You're making too much of a big deal about this loss of contact length. The type of ski you are considering will only have a subtle rocker and will not lose significant edge grip when it matters.
Or just buy this season's non-rockered Movement Jams in your usual length and avoid the issue entirely.
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Poster: A snowHead
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abc you're right in the way that longer skis are given a greater stiffness ,and therefore aimed at the more advanced/aggressive skier, which is one of the reasons why I ski the 178 powder ski , and the 168 regular ski is because they are considered as the ski for ladies/ lightweight sker and therefore have a more forgiving flex ,
The best ski I can suggest for you requirements would be something like a kastle mx 88 , one of the best " all mountain skis"
Out there
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