 Poster: A snowHead
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CEM,
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who the hell says i don't like fizz!!!!!!
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You did. Very clearly. But you said your wife did like it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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CEM, I'll remember that next time you do me a favour. And you did me a huge favour, for which I remain very grateful (hence the bottle of fizz at the time). 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Pedantica, He probably thinks he doesn't as he brings tons to the Ski Show, but Mrs Phorn and I seem to consume most of it, therefore he doesn't get a look in... 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Monium wrote: |
| So in short everyone, including FlyingStantoni, who owns a pair of the Vacuums, thinks I should go to CEM? |
Yep.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Vacuums again, but if you're asking the question then you need to go to see CEM. I went to Bartlett's prepared to walk away without anything if I didn't feel the fit was right.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Monium, sent my eldest son to see CEM last July when he was in the UK. He's got big feet (29.5), but Colin sorted him out with boots, footbeds and fitting, all for £430. Are the Fischers £499 just for the boot and without footbeds? If so you can add another £100 plus onto the price.
As almost everyone else has advised, go to Bicester and see Colin. He'll tell you what you need. At worst you'll only spend a bit on petrol.
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You know he's good when people travel from South America to get their boots fitted
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Appointment booked, and CEM has gone out of his way while on holiday to answer some basics before we get to visiting. Report to follow next week, hopefully with my nice new boots to show off at the EoSB. I guess the fit will have to be good, because I can be a proper whinging girl when my feet hurt 
The downside of this is that I will then have new skis and new boots. I am now running out of equipment to blame my lazy technique and general inability on. I am pretty sure my cheap poles are impacting on my ability, but I can't see anyone buying that.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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well the stories i could tell of how correctly fit poles have helped skiers
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Monium wrote: |
| I am pretty sure my cheap poles are impacting on my ability, but I can't see anyone buying that. |
Without HEAD Carbon Poles your skiing will always be rubbish. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Monium, you can still blame the skis as long as you have only one pair - "some fatter ones with a bit of rocker would have been ideal in these conditions".
Or if you DO have another pair or two, you can always say that the others would have been better on the day.
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Well, now home after a visit to the man, some dinner and a bit of thinking.
Initial problem seems to be flex in my ankle. I have done all kinds of things that aren't very good for ankles over the years, and now spend more time in the car and at a desk than doing much exercise, well other than skiing and the odd strenuous sneeze. The solution to the lack of bend seemed to be lifting the heel to get me forward a bit. Except the front of my ankle is too high to do that in a standard boot.
The permanent solution to this seems to be Daleboots. Which have a lead time of more than the 1.5 weeks we have before the EoSB.
So what do I do? I was kind of ok with my B90s. They were completely fine for a long time, and have survived what we worked out over dinner is 4 years of 3-4 weeks skiing every season, plus fridge visits. I wanted more than fine, but that seems to be Daleboots or nothing. But that seems to be approx £650.
Seems like a tough spot. Either tolerate another week in the B90s, which I'm not particularly keen on now they are packed out and I am overflexing them all the time, and then spend a load of money over the summer, rent some boots for the EoSB and spend a load of money over the summer, or look for another solution that might work for the next couple of seasons and cross the Daleboots bridge when the time comes.
Since we had established CEM wasn't going to have something that could sort me out fairly early on, Mrs M got her boots out for an opinion. Luckily her fairly new boots weren't a complete disaster, and other than a new footbed and some tweaking they were ok. New footbed and pads on the heel and she is much happier with her boots straight away, which was a nice bonus for us.
Overall I came away impressed that I didn't get put into a compromise boot because it was near enough. It would have been easy to chuck me into a boot which was significantly better than the B90s have been, and I'd have been happy enough, but it wouldn't have been perfect. Could I live with a compromise? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
This is difficult. No point throwing good money after bad at this, but £650 is a huge amount of money. I have bought several cars for less than that. The internet people that you are will all say "you only live once" and "spend whatever you need to spend to get it perfect" but it isn't your money.
The upside of the compromise boot would be that I always, reliably (with an expert opinion to back it up) don't have the right boots
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Monium is there any reason why you cannot improve your ankle flexibility?
If you can improve the range of motion in your ankles, could you:
> Keep the boots you already have for the EOSB
> improve your ankle flexibility over the coming months before next season with a few exercises each day (a few exercises from CEM)
> visit CEM (or another recommended bootfitter) in October/November
> buy some new boots
> get used to the new boots before any trips abroad by skiing indoors (or possibly visiting insideout skiing)
Pros
> Not using brand new boots on a holiday. Personally I hate this, as well fitted boots can be uncomfortable for the first 3 days of skiing or so. This is half of the number of days skiing on the EOSB.
> If you need any tweaking to the fit, you can return to where the boots were purchased and have them adjusted in your own time. On holiday this could be a massive inconvenience.
> Full boot product range is available early next season
> Not in a rush to purchase boots that might not be right or optimal
> improving your ankle range of motion will improve your skiing (regardless of what boots you are using)
> avoiding having to spend £650 on a custom boot
Cons
> Keep your current boots for EOSB
> Not a quick fix
> Will need to put a little effort into improving your flexibility.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Monium, do remember that that price is the boot, the liner and a custom footbed, so as an example
fisher boot £499+ footbed £100 = £599 no custom liner (just the stock liner that comes with the boot) and a whole heap of pain if it isn't right (98mm shells don't stretch out that far)
Daleboot £650 ish inc. custom liner inc. custom footbed
so £50 more for a completely custom built product ideal for your foot and ankle biomechanics
enjoy whatever you choose
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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CEM, I think (mentally at least) I've written off the vacuum idea. I get how the cost of the Daleboot stacks up, and I don't think it is a bad value proposition. But it is a lot of money 
My compromise boot would have to be to shift down a size in something like the B120. But not sure if that is the answer for the short term. The trouble is that to get it fitted properly and sorted would end up at £400+. That blows a load of the money I could have just spent on the right boot, so isn't a good idea.
I know the right answer to getting the right fit. I suppose the question really is whether I am ready to spend that kind of money on a ski boot. Perhaps the idea of a compromise boot is delaying the inevitable.
I'm going to do some more thinking. After all, I don't have to make a decision this week. After the EoSB I have 6 months to sort out my boots.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Monium, if you're skiing for 3-4 weeks each season, you gotta be able to find 650 quid.
BUT only you know just how much of a compromise would a compromise boot be. I could happily ski (not race!) all day long on piste in an ok boot and would maybe prefer to save the money in that scenario. On the other hand for some of the tough offpiste I need a much better fit and would be prepared to spend a lot more.
If the difference is between 650 and 400+ I think "get the right boot". If you can get a good enough boot in a sale during the EOSB for 250, then hey, maybe price trumps perfect fit.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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horizon,
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If the difference is between 650 and 400+ I think "get the right boot". If you can get a good enough boot in a sale during the EoSB for 250, then hey, maybe price trumps perfect fit.
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Those figures make perfect sense.
Go on, Monium, you know you want the Daleboots.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| horizon wrote: |
Monium, if you're skiing for 3-4 weeks each season, you gotta be able to find 650 quid.
BUT only you know just how much of a compromise would a compromise boot be. I could happily ski (not race!) all day long on piste in an ok boot and would maybe prefer to save the money in that scenario. On the other hand for some of the tough offpiste I need a much better fit and would be prepared to spend a lot more.
If the difference is between 650 and 400+ I think "get the right boot". If you can get a good enough boot in a sale during the EoSB for 250, then hey, maybe price trumps perfect fit. |
You're right. I can find £650. But that is significantly more money than I really wanted to spend on this process. I went to CEM with a budget of £500.
If the difference is between 650 and 400+ then I would get the right boot. I am only thinking about this a lot because a compromise boot would be to just grab a B120 for cheap this week, chuck my current footbed in it, and it will do. I can do that for £200 at this point in the season. The question is whether price really does trump perfect fit, and how much of a compromise it would be to get through a season (or maybe longer) with an "almost ideal" boot. The house of cards completely collapses if I try and do that and they don't fit pretty much straight out of the box.
This is reaching a point where I just toss a coin and go with it. You lot must be bored stiff with all this. I'm getting bored of thinking about it.
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Monium, but what's the point of throwing away £200 if you're going to go for the expensive option in the end?
(Just managed to post that before falling.....zzzzzzz......
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Pedantica, it isn't throwing away £200 if it gets me through 3 or 4 weeks skiing. And the way prices are on ebay I could get more than half that for my old B90s! So the upgrade might cost me £100. That's just expensive boot rental for the EoSB in my world, plus I'll have a spare pair of boots that I might quite like. It could work out wonderfully, and the compromise boot turns out to be good enough that I never miss a "perfect" boot and don't spend £650.
Now we are back to the what ifs on pairs of boots I've not even put on my feet. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! This is harder than choosing where to have lunch on the mountain, and that normally takes an entire morning of concentration and thought.
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Time to take up snowboarding by the sound of it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Monium wrote: |
| You lot must be bored stiff with all this. I'm getting bored of thinking about it. |
Words mouth of you right took the out my. Rearrange at your leisure
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Just buy the bloody boots! 
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paulio, flowa, maggi, good idea x3
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You know it makes sense.
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Monium, PS you are JB1970 and I claim my £5
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Pedantica,
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Poster: A snowHead
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This thread just illustrates what we can all do in a information flooded world- procrastinate as if time doesn't have any cost at all.
Perhaps if Monium had just bought the 'bloody boots' that CEM recommended and spent his time thinking how he could make £150 back some other way he could have got his 'dream' boots and saved himself a lot of self flagellation and spared us all reading about it.
Having said that - i am interested how people like stanton are finding the Fischer vacuum jobbies as I'm in the market myself at the mo and am ... well procrastinating a bit!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Go to CEM, are you lot really not seeing through this vaccum farce?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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CH2O, that's the point, he came, and due to his biomechanics i suggested the DALEBOOT which is more than he wanted to spend but would work well for the foot concerned...not sure why this got dragged up 8 months later.
i don't even sell the dam thing!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Monium wrote: |
| This is tough. Someone just tell me what to do, preferably with a good reason. That good reason could include "CEM can tell you to go and buy some clearance boots from X website that cost £200 and you can give him £100 for fitting and stuff, and you'll have the best boots ever" - or that CEM is in fact an abbreviation for Catherine something, and she is a 6 foot buxom blonde that likes to work naked. Or that the Vacuum jobbies just work, every time, straight out of the box, regardless of the feet, time, effort, and skill of the person using them. |
I think your reasoning and analysis is sound. The conclusion is obvious and there is only one answer to this age old conundrum - go for the one with the biggest norks.
There are a few things in life that you shouldn't financially skimp on. Ski boots, winter tyres and lingerie (although less is more, obviously) - why? because with all three if they don't fit you are going to have performance problems.
Another vote for CEM.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I can't speak of CEM but I've only ever heard good things through sites such as this and other people in the industry. If he refuses to touch the Vacuums he must have his reasons, otherwise just get him to assess and - if appropriate - fit you for a pair of them and you'll be happier than happy can be.
In my experience though, the Vacuum boots can be a great thing. Like a lot of people I have different sized feet and tried fitting myself a pair of Vacuums with the length - not just the width - stretched appropriately. Never been happier (although I do notice my feet are colder than usual due to the thinner plastic).
Despite what Fischer say, the Vacuum is not a fool-proof process. As with any bootfitting it requires experience of it and the basic principles of bootfitting to fit a pair correctly from start to finish, and there's a lot of tweaking potential beyond what's in the kit and training from Fischer. Also important to note that it's not for everyone's foot shape (as the quote of CEM explains on page 1). Last season I probably fitted/refitted about twenty pairs of them (in resort, where people could come back to tell me if it worked!) but turned away twice as many people I knew it wouldn't suit.
The majority I refitted were people who had bought elsewhere (Russia, USA, UK, France, Belgium) but weren't happy with the original results. Fischer never really told us how much we should charge for this service but suggested that anyone who bought the boots online cheap and came to us for a first fit should pay at least 80€. Just something to consider if you're doing the math.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Monium, so your procrastination has so far only resulted in your losing the ability to have the best solution ready for your next holliday.
I doubt you'll be able to rent anything as good or as well fitting. And if your £650 is a hard constraint, the cost of renting immediately removes that option anyway.
Having boots that fit and work properly is easily worth the marginal £150.
Plus, would I be correct in believing that the Daleboot being modular is infinitely renewable - anything breaks you replace only the broken bit??
If I'm correct, you'd be buying the last pair of boots you'll ever wear (line from MiB Ski Trousers, prod. In My Head Films, 2012) , even if by that point they actually retain none of the original parts.
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Amongst us and my peers in the world of Bootfitting we often discuss the various shapes of boots, their foot types and destined users. Albeit there is never 100% agreement, the conclusions are always pretty damn close, so on the whole we're singing off the same song sheet.
Amongst this group are Fischer vaccum dealers, all now saying that "It works for certain feet."
My first point is Fischers claims to this being the first boot that will be a perfect/100% fit for evrybody.
My second is that amongst this group of Fischer dealers there seems to be no answer to exactly what shape or foot type these boots are suited for.
We have a range of approx 60 boots this winter, all with the common foot shapes in mind, the rest and in almost all cases the boots we sell are deformed or modified.
So I ask myself, what is the damn difference with these boots, if they have a special footshape I don't have covered, then I shouldn't be doing this and certainly not having the success we have when doing it. It seems a huge amount of users are having to suppliment them with custom liners, which is possible in all shell types, so nothing special or "Game Changing" there. Infact this route would be more cost effectiive and possibly as, as successful with any other boot.
We have tested Fischers claims with 5 clients, all of which we paid for to take the process, none of which we're happy in the slightest, I would trust any of these reputable bootfitters, with the same 5 clients and a range of boots that didn't include Fischer, to get 4/5 perfectly fitting and at a smaller cost.
So please please what the hell am I missing here?????
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 27-11-12 12:52; edited 1 time in total
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Ah, I'm missing the fact that people love to spend more money than is needed if they get treated like a "star" in boot shops for a couple of hours!!!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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On a more literal note, i'd love to see CEM Vs a Fischer boot, in the same way i'd love to see a ferret on the back of a cat take on a badger.
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CH2O, ah but you gave away the secret last year, ......all i would need is a hotter oven and i would have myself a lovely bowl of boot soup
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FAQ
