 Poster: A snowHead
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Complained immediately to try to get something done, but had very poor response...
...Several letters to the TO once back home have failed to elicit any offer of compensation
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flangesax, that's why the next step has to be attention-grabbing. There's no point continuing the nicey nicey route when a county court summons is cheap and easy to deliver. It's just a good way of turning the tables and getting a result, nobody would expect it to actually get to court.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Bode Swiller, not in my opinion.
Has the OP written a nice polite letter to the CEO. I would guess not as you will get a response. Make it personally addressed to the CEO and always polite.
Don't ever bother writing to customer complaint depts or customer services etc.. etc..
Always address letters of complaint to a CEO. Make them as concise and as polite as possible. Angle them so that you are making them 'aware' of the problem and how it tarnishes yours (and others') opinion of the company.
Make them polite, never threaten any court action, never rant and add something personal.
[edit] this method has been successful with Debenhams, Surfanic, Prestige Cook Ware, our insurance company and a few others (I still have a copy of the Prestige and Surfanic letters... if anyone fancies a read then feel free to PM)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Did no one manage to get a hot shower between that time, or just you?
I've quite often stayed at places where I've not had a warm/hot shower. Day 1 cold shower = the following day make sure I get in the shower before Jnr and the OH. Day 2 cold shower = go for a shower at 5pm instead of sitting in the bar with a beer until 7pm. Day 3 = warm shower. Day 4 = forget what I'd learnt, make same mistakes as Day 1 & 2 and have a cold shower. I'm not sure an accommodation should have a system capable of making sure everyone gets a hot shower if everyone were to have a shower at the same time! regardless of what any paid you have to think of the environment 
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| flangesax wrote: |
Bode Swiller, not in my opinion.
Has the OP written a nice polite letter to the CEO. I would guess not as you will get a response. Make it personally addressed to the CEO and always polite.
Don't ever bother writing to customer complaint depts or customer services etc.. etc..
Always address letters of complaint to a CEO. Make them as concise and as polite as possible. Angle them so that you are making them 'aware' of the problem and how it tarnishes yours (and others') opinion of the company.
Make them polite, never threaten any court action, never rant and add something personal.
[edit] this method has been successful with Debenhams, Surfanic, Prestige Cook Ware, our insurance company and a few others (I still have a copy of the Prestige and Surfanic letters... if anyone fancies a read then feel free to PM) |
Has it occurred to you there're other routes to the same destination? 
What the OP does is also tried and true. Set the stage for a name and shame. Then write to the customer service department (or CEO, individual choice). Surprise, surprise! A phone call and a check in the mail! Not some silly "discount voucher" for future trips where you might just end up with something else they don't take care of... Yep, personal experience too.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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flangesax, The showers in your place were lovely every day 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| flangesax wrote: |
I honestly think that seeking direct cash 'compensation' is greedy and not appropriate for this kind of complaint.
Next you'll wonder why TO-X has gone bust, or that the prices have gone up etc.. etc... |
The OP did complain about the situation at the time, and he perceive the attitude indicates they didn't seem to care.
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| what the heck is wrong with a voucher. |
It locks the customer to this particular TO in order to reclaim the value of his "voucher". So if the next time some other TO offers better value, he'd be losing his "compensation".
A "compensation" which REQUIRES the customer to pay again ("next trip") in order to claim its value is not a fair compensation, unless as requested by the customer.
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| It would probably larger than a cash offer |
I don't see why that would be universally the case. Or are you saying that's what YOU would offer?
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| Next you'll wonder why TO-X has gone bust, or that the prices have gone up etc.. etc... |
You forgot, the OP said his was a rather expensive one to start with...
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the OP said his was a rather expensive one to start with...
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those are the ones which go bust the most.
I didn't think you could "sue" somebody for something like not having a hot shower - what have you "lost"? A bit of comfort at the end of a ski day? Having to wait a couple of hours for a hot shower?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I didn't think you could "sue" somebody for something like not having a hot shower... |
The point of issuing a County Court Summons isn't to ever have to take it all the way. What it does is really force them to try and sort it out or have the expense and inconvenience of having to defend it. When letters and emails are flying back and forwards, there's no deadline for reaching a resolution. A writ is a PITA and it shows you mean business and it's part of a process with deadlines attached to it. Basically, the company "should" be more inclined to tidy the situation up by settling. Clearly, you should be reasonable at all times and try and sort it out amicably first but, if your attempts (like the OP's) are being ignored, you have to bring it to a head somehow. Hard to quantify but I'd probably start by going for the difference between what I paid and what I thought it was reasonably worth.
Flangesax's polite letter to the CEO can work but... if the CEO isn't on top of customer service then he/she clearly doesn't care too much anyway.
By the way, I'd also sue if the water was too hot 
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abc, if you honestly believe there is due cause to be compensated then fair enough.
But there is nothing that could have been done at the time, by the accommodation provider or the TO.
So a nice nod and a smile and an apology is all you should expect at the time. The problem is indicitive of a much bigger heating issue, not a quick fix. I suppose they could have boiled kettles and formed a bucket chain.
Stop picking holes, there; is no real point as I already look like a slice of Emmantaler... why do I think that a voucher offer would be larger than a cash offer (go on... think about it... just for a minute before trying to belittle me).
TO's block buy accommodation, many TO's also use the same accommodation in larger hotels etc... and who knows, next season they may have swapped all of the chalets with one and other. I expect a decent CEO would want to prove how much the company has improved and how they can supply an ecellent holiday with no drawbacks; so offer a large voucher that the customer can redeem to find out.
That is more than a fair and generous and well balanced offer.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Too many think "sue" or post bad reviews on Trip Adviser instead of taking the matter to a personal level and writing or calling the Operator to express your dissatisfaction. We had a poor experience travelling back on Jet2 in Feb, emailed Customer Services whilst waiting at Leeds/Bradford and followed it up the next day after I'd calmed down. Result, a polite and informative reply and the offer of a voucher towards our next holiday. All dealt with in a civil manner and an acceptable outcome.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| flangesax wrote: |
Stop picking holes, there; is no real point as I already look like a slice of Emmantaler... why do I think that a voucher offer would be larger than a cash offer (go on... think about it... just for a minute before trying to belittle me).
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The "holes" in your argument is the automatic assumption that company will play fair in their offer! Many don't!!!
Yes, it's probably advantageous for the company to offer a voucher which may not be cashed due to the customers circumstance. So they may be able to make a better offer. But that's exactly the reason why the customer will be devaluing a voucher substantially.
But just because company can afford to offer bigger voucher, and customer potentially willing to accept a larger voucher over a stingy cheque, it not a guarantee a voucher will actually be 'fatter' than their cash offer.
So if a company guesses customer sentiment correctly and offers the choice of a fat voucher and stingy cash, some may opt for the voucher (assuming I'm pleased with all other aspect of the company so wish to give me a second chance at a discount). Others may still just take the cash and say goodbye for good if they were displeased in the first place.
Chances are, if the initial response at the time was "don't care", there's a lot more of those "don't care" attitude up top. Hard ball may be necessary in such case.
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Guys, everyone is losing it here. Why do you think ceo's would ever actually read a letter like this? They don't read 90% of what is addressed to them. Your letter will be redirected back to customer complaints. And in any case, where do you think this direction to screw the customer is coming from?
Pretty much all package operators make their money by keeping costs as low as possible. I'm sure there are a lot of snowheads who get paid peanuts to mollify unhappy customers (but they get to ski for free)
Guys, no ceo wil lie awake at night upset a customer is unhappy. He will lose sleep if costs are not kept down though
Some TOs and hotels do care about their reputation. For the record I've always been happy with how crystal handled my complaints. The ones that don't care should simply be named on this and other forums.
Please stop talking about suing them! Seriously, as if! And as if you weren't the first person who was unhappy and threatened this! But let me tell yopu that I have spoken with many hotel owners very unhappy re their tripadvisor reviews who fired staff on back of same
Some snowheads in the business pls back me up!
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You know it makes sense.
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Sue them! Seriously!!!! Hahaha good luck with that one- I was only able to have hot water for my shower 22 hours of the day, boohoo.... Seriously catch yourself on!! Would I find this annoying, definitely yes, do you have any grounds to sue definitely no! I am getting a bit bored of this attitude that if everything isn't 100% perfect on a holiday people think they are due compensation! Where is it going to stop, "your honour I ordered my egg runny and was given it hard boiled..."
Yes many operators would have offered a small voucher for goodwill, but presumably even that would be useless to you given that I can't imagine that you would possibly travel with them again after they have put you through these third world conditions.
These things happen, sit, have a beer, wait for the showers to warm up and enjoy your holiday. Don't waste time, energy and money on trying to sue someone with a case that would sound ridiculous even to Judge Judy!
And by the way, love the fact that you use the forum to gain advice, but won't give advice to other s so they can avoid the same accomodation
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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"your honour I ordered my egg runny and was given it hard boiled..."
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If that's perfectly acceptable, how about "Here's your order of steak, don't worry, it's white because it's actually chicken. It's meat just the same"
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Poster: A snowHead
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If that's perfectly acceptable, how about "Here's your order of steak, don't worry, it's white because it's actually chicken. It's meat just the same"
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it wasn't presented as something "perfectly acceptable" but just something too trivial to make too much of a song and dance about.
I wonder what the OP actually paid, and what kind of value for money, overall, the holiday represented. If he paid a lot then having to delay a shower might well be considered a bit much. I recall in one Ski Olympic chalet having to run round switching things off, in the busy couple of hours before dinner, because the electricity power rating was too low. We (the guests) took it in turns to grope our way down to the meter cupboard to throw the main switch back on, so that the chef wasn't distracted from cooking the dinner (which was late, because the oven had kept going off). OK, it wasn't an expensive holiday, but everybody just had a laugh and another drink. It simply wouldn't have occurred to any of us (three different groups) to complain and we all enjoyed our holiday. In that chalet bathrooms were shared, so we all took care not to take too long, or more than a fair share of water. It didn't seem like a big problem - there are a lot of prima donnas around these days, it would seem, almost looking for something to complain about.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| pam w wrote: |
| I recall in one Ski Olympic chalet having to run round switching things off, in the busy couple of hours before dinner, because the electricity power rating was too low. We (the guests) took it in turns to grope our way down to the meter cupboard to throw the main switch back on, so that the chef wasn't distracted from cooking the dinner (which was late, because the oven had kept going off). OK, it wasn't an expensive holiday, but everybody just had a laugh and another drink. It simply wouldn't have occurred to any of us (three different groups) to complain and we all enjoyed our holiday. In that chalet bathrooms were shared, so we all took care not to take too long, or more than a fair share of water. It didn't seem like a big problem - there are a lot of prima donnas around these days, it would seem, almost looking for something to complain about. |
I would have moved out.
It would be OK if the tour op told you up front "by the way, there's very little hot water in this chalet and, oh yeah, you'll need a sense of humour about the electrics" but they don't of course, happy to take your money on the basis that everything is great. Most people work 48 weeks of the year and maybe go away for 2 or 3 weeks holiday. For most it's precious R&R and it costs a lot however you do it, so I reckon the OP is dead right if kicking up a stink about something as basic as providing hot water and enough of it. Rationing showers? "Chef" cooking by candlelight? Welcome to 1944. You can have a laugh and another drink just as well if things are how they should be and the reason TOs get away with it still is because... people let them.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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For most it's precious R&R
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yes, and it was precious R & R to us, too - far too precious to spend moaning about trivial inconveniences. It would have taken a great deal to prevent our family enjoying that holiday - the worst thing would have been if any of the other parties in the chalet had been miserable, negative, moaning, gits
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Ha ha! Just remembered one time (we went to the same chalet twice) the water heating broke down and the whole chalet were taken down to a neighbouring property to use the bathrooms! The inhabitants of that shower were surprisingly gracious and pleasant about it too. What could have been an absolutely miserable moan-fest for two lots of guests passed off with everyone being courteous and tolerant.
Courtesy and tolerance seem (reading the road rage thread amongst others) to be in increasingly short supply these days.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Guys, everyone is losing it here. Why do you think ceo's would ever actually read a letter like this? They don't read 90% of what is addressed to them. Your letter will be redirected back to customer complaints. And in any case, where do you think this direction to screw the customer is coming from?
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CEO's have a specific team to deal with complaints addressed to them. The reason is that whoever responds is writing to you in direct reply from them, so they go to a different cs manager/dept etc...
I have never received a reply from a CEO (having said that, maybe Debenhams') but I have never expected it.
My letters are notifying them of the problem and my dissastification or loss in faith of the company (blurby blurb).
Truth is, I don't care who reads them, they just work.
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IMV, complain, vote with your feet, maybe name and shame if you went down every channel and got no response but I wouldn't waste my time taking legal action for lack of a hot water. I'd be gutted and pretty pi55ed off but I'd not be suing, wasting money and precious court time over a hot shower. Just my humble opinion.
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I wouldn't waste my time taking legal action
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It's a bit of online form filling. Takes 10 minutes and it's great fun - it's a "pick the bones outa that my son" moment . It's just a tactic, I'd never do it expecting to go to a hearing, it just means the TO has to sort out your complaint (that they've otherwise been ignoring) or it'll cost them and tie them up in paperwork.
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Bode Swiller, like i said, just my opinion and I'm not implying at all that I am correct but the OP asked for views. I have a bee in my bonnet about the whole compo culture thing going on in the UK these days. I guess I'm just not the "I'll sue you or else" sort of bloke.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Dot., I'm only advocating using it as a tactic if friendly, reasonable approaches are ignored or knocked back. I'd say "compo culture" would be going after money you're not really deserving of, but in the OP's case he shelled out for something that wasn't up to scratch so he should get something appropriate back. In his case it's a dishonest TO... they knew about the problem so should manage expectations of customers and give them the chance to change or cancel. Instead of that they try winging it. IMV they get all they deserve.
If I were the OP right now I'd point the TO in the general direction of this thread and explain the nature of social media. They've not been named yet so can still make it all better.
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I guess I'm just not the "I'll sue you or else" sort of bloke.
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Ditto. I simply can't believe that I'd have enjoyed my holidays any more if I'd looked for opportunities to complain. Where I have felt aggrieved about something, when I feel I've been ill-treated in some way (mostly in respect of work stuff, much less often family stuff) it's done me a lot more harm than good brooding and plotting about how to get my own back. I thought I had a good case to get a couple of hundred euro from my breakdown insurance - a bill they really should have picked up - and when I took it up through the Ombudsman, they paid up. But I wasn't going to fret about the 2 days I'd spent sorting it all out in France, having to get taxis to pick up hired car, with just an hour to spare, in the end, before I had to pick up guests in Geneva in an inconveniently small car. Trying to get "compensation" for that (all caused by unbelievable negligence on the part of the garage to which the breakdown service took me) would have been a waste of time and breath.
If someone can genuinely be "gutted" at having to wait a couple of hours for a shower, how are they can going to cope with the more seriously blows which life might bring their way.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
If I were the OP right now I'd point the TO in the general direction of this thread and explain the nature of social media. They've not been named yet so can still make it all better. |
totally agree with that.
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Is it me, or is this whole thing getting somewhat out of proportion? Yes, there should have been enough hot water. Yes, the rep should have apologised and tried to sort it out if at all possible. But..... all this talk of suing the TO for something as trivial as this is ludicrous. Have a grumble, have a drink, and get over it. Incidentally, if you did sue, what would be fair compensation for the fact that hot water was not available 24 hours a day? In my book, that would be about £20. And you would seriously go to court and waste everyone's time for that?
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You know it makes sense.
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If someone can genuinely be "gutted" at having to wait a couple of hours for a shower, how are they can going to cope with the more seriously blows which life might bring their way.
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If I was paying for shower facilities then Id expect that the water be hot. Waiting "a couple of hours" seriously messes up folks' routines - especially if they have kids, dress for dinner, have muscle aches and would like that shower now. If the Company struggles to provide hot showers then it should state this - it would soon see its bookings drop. People need to complain otherwise standards in service would drop; sad fact of life.
pam w, if you are honest - if you saw a place advertised, not budget, that said - "you'll be lucky to get a hot shower before dinner" then would you book?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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foxtrotzulu, I'm with you re. suing - but I think the OP would be playing a fair game to name the accommodation on here...I wouldnt be rushing to book. Ive stayed in accommodation with cold showers, I didnt moan - at the time I could live with it but as Ive got older and am rushing around after two kids getting the ready for ski school, up at seven, carrying their equipment etc then Ive come to love a hot bath when we get in from skiing; I jump in with a glass of wine and my kindle and I have a half hour peace. Companies that cant ensure hot water are failing their customers.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Shimmy Alcott, yes, sure, I'd like to have a hot shower at the time of my choosing - and I said that right at the start of the thread. But that's a very long way from suggesting that I'd be "gutted" to have to wait. That's very strong language to use over a (temporary) shortage of hot water. And I STILL want to know how much the OP paid - he's being pretty sparing with his information, isn't he? We're all wallowing around in the dark. Was this an annoying factor in an otherwise wonderful holiday which was good VFM? Or was the whole thing a bit below par?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w, I suppose his frustration comes from the Company appearing to not give a damn. I could live with cold showers if the company had a genuine problem and were addressing it. The OP highlighting the problem actually contributes to trying to maintain reasonable standards.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I could live with cold showers
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You're braver than I! I would opt to wait a couple of hours rather than have a cold shower.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
FiFi_Trixibell, isn't one exclamation mark enough???? |
One can never use enough exclaimation marks! 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w, I stayed at the Eldorador in Alpes d'Huez once and the water was very dodgy there, but i went with low expectations so wasnt too bothered. As a parent who needs to get her kids to dinner at a reasonable time then I didnt have a choice as to what time I took the shower - unless I wanted to go to dinner with hat hair and feeling grungy (I didnt).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Seem to have stirred up a bit of a hornet's nest here.
Just to be clear, the first thing I did was to raise the issue with the chalet host. I then raised it with the rep. When it wasn't sorted I asked to see the resort manager to get it fixed. Her response left me with so little confidence that I sent an email the the agent I had booked through asking them to raise it with the London office to see if they could get anything done. While the agent responded to this, the TO never got back to me formally as a result of that contact so I had to write to complan when I got back. So, I haven't just rushed to sue them.
I take the same general view as abc on the subject of threatening to sue vs. name & shame or writing to the CEO. I also feel that if a TO offers a particular service and takes your money then fails to deliver on an important aspect they should compensate you. You might call that "compensation culture" I presume you would call the opposite "rip-off culture".
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| The point of issuing a County Court Summons isn't to ever have to take it all the way. |
I had been thinking of small claims court but not got into the detail yet.
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DCG, So what you are now suggesting (in an open forum that would be really handy for the TO to read) is that you are willing to start the process of sueing but not actually go through with it... I've got a feeling they might work that out.
Don't forget that large companies have a suitable insurance policty for the costs assosiated with any court action so it does not cost them a penny to go through the ropes and accept a summons (obviously it does if they 'lose' they have to pay for your £50 cost in the small claims court and then 'compensate' you with a few hundred litres of hot water )
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| flangesax wrote: |
DCG, So what you are now suggesting (in an open forum that would be really handy for the TO to read) is that you are willing to start the process of sueing but not actually go through with it... I've got a feeling they might work that out.
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Don't think I said that, but thanks for the advice.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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flangesax, I would think that even the start of the process would raise the insurance cost - any excuse TBH
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Don't forget that large companies have a suitable insurance policty for the costs assosiated with any court action so it does not cost them a penny to go through the ropes and accept a summons
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Not true. There will be exclusions and financial limits. PI insurance is designed to protect the company from large claims that might otherwise bust the company. DCG's would be a tiddler.
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FAQ
