 Poster: A snowHead
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pam w, who cares if there is no discount for something that is free? Free is free. Im sure if they put it in nice big font like you then no one would be making the mistake snowboardingmum did - but where is the profit in that? They are obviously counting on the profit from folks misled in this manner - as if it was a one off mistake they wouldnt have any reluctance in paying snowboardingmum back for the confusion.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
instead of continual moaning like you I find great joy in life
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 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could have sworn that the people moaning in this thread are the ones who think this is a terrible shame, a con and a rip off and who don't want to live in the same world as the authors of that allegedly grossly misleading website.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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pam w, yes, I find joy in life and am a really happy go lucky person - which grates when i see someone being screwed. Fair play - you are obviously so cynical you think folks getting screwed over is their own fault. Id rather argue for more morally correct transactions. If the OP was told "it will cost you 1000e for your kids skiing which will otherwise be free" she would never have signed up.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I think the sore point is that it is 1k euro when it could have been free
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Nadenoodlee, indeed - but lets let the old girls try and be contradictory just for the sake of it - at least it keeps this thread top of the list
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Ooooochy mcooooochy!! Bleeding hell you lot!! Chill....
I go away and put my children to bed and *some people* kick off and throw seven kinds of merde at others.
There. Is. No. Need.
1. I know I've been a bit of a flump and missed some mega small print.
2. I just want some of you lovely people at the end of the day to not fall fowl.
3. It is not clear. If I can miss it, anyone can. I also booked these cards last summer and have no proof of what the blinking site looked like way back then. I can't prove anything either way. So shoot me.
Stop flaming each other *ffs*. Thanks Shimmy and nadenoodlee for supporting me and understanding where I'm coming from - much love to you xx. Its all I can ask for! We're here to share a love of the snow and find ways of making it more fun for each other, not to go stirring fights and tryin to prove why I'm right or the poor rich company is right. Awareness is my only reason for posting. And if I can get the company to rethink the way they do stuff, and not unethically supply passes to dimwit parents of juniors who otherwise would ski free, then great. I run an honest business myself and don't see why others can't too. I wouldn't sell my product in this way and charge someone when they shouldn't be doing it a certain way. That's all.
Funny how this thread has split people. Quite sad really.
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| Quote: |
If the OP was told "it will cost you 1000e for your kids skiing which will otherwise be free" she would never have signed up.
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Well, she knew they could ski for free by just going to the lift pass office and getting them passes. The reason she didn't was because that was too much "hassle". I maintain the website is 100% clear, it says more than once that everyone - young or old - pays the same daily rate. The OP wasn't "screwed"; she made a mistake because, presumably, spending five minutes reading a pretty straightforward website - in English - was even more "hassle" than going to the lift pass office.
You say
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who cares if there is no discount for something that is free?
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But teenagers and seniors do not ski free. The discounts for 14 - 18 year olds, in Les Coches (like most places) are minimal. Possibly the a la carte card offers a bigger discount. For under 14s or seniors the situation would be different again. As with lots of "discount" schemes, you'd need to do a bit of homework to identify the optimum deal.
As for giving a refund, the a la carte company presumably gets charged by the lift companies in the various resorts every time the card is used, regardless of the age of the holder. Do you really think it is reasonable to expect them to give a discount which would leave them out of pocket? It's not them who has made "100% profit" but the lift pass companies. The OP might do better to throw herself on the mercy of the Les Coches lift pass company, show them the bill from A la Carte and point out that she paid large sums for her little kids, who could have got free lift passes. I'd expect them to be pretty puzzled as to why she didn't just get them the free lift passes which were on offer, but if they are feeling particularly indulgent - and if they are approached in a polite and non-accusatory manner, you never know your luck.
I'm not cynical, actually, but I don't expect commercial operations to give me my money back because I made a cock-up.
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| snowboardingmum wrote: |
| In total we have been charged almost €900 which someone is taking 100% profit!! . |
Can you confirm whether the 900 euro was the total price paid for (I assume 4 of you) - as it sounds here?
Further down the thread people are saying you've been done by 900 euro which would appear to be misleading. With an adult Paradiski illimite being at 257 euro for 6 days then you/husband have had the benefit of that which otherwise would have cost you 514 euro for those and so you've just been 'done' for 386 - still quite a large amount on the cost of a holiday I'm sure.
The first line on their website is "Do you ski between 8 and 20 days a year?" - well no if you're only going for the classic 6 day trip then how would you think the ski a lar carte would benefit you - obviously if you're doing 2/3 trips then I could see the benefit..
but I'm with Lizzard and Pam w, the terms are very clear on their website, and have been discussed on here at length. the analogy is if you sign a mobile phone contract promising to pay £47 a month to get a shiny new Iwhatsit and then whinge after 24 months that you've spent £1128 when you could have spent £500 on one sim free and £10 a month on a giff gaff deal - a total of £740
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ouch Pam. I did not know I could only get the free pass from the ski office and it was not *too much hassle*. I just thought mistakenly that if you were 4 or 5 at La Plagne etc it was free. Full stop. Believe me I would have done it happily if I did. Not all of us are up on the etiquette of every resort we visit.
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Bertie. The €900 was for the 4 and 5 year old. We were there for a month. I did manage to read that bit right.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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OP You were there for a month and going to the office for passes was too much hassle?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I prove my point - Bertie missed the fact that I wrote I was in les coches for a month on my initial post.... I rest my case 
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Omg I'm done with all this. Nobody reads what is written and takes their own perspective and spits it out another way. Please read what is there before attacking me *jeanclaude see above for your answer - in a nutshell no. Obv*. Over and out, I'm leaving you lot to it.
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You know it makes sense.
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I stupidly got them the Ski A La Carte pass instead of the hassle of going to the lift pass office for free passes. They are 4 and 5 and *should* ski free in Paradiski totally.
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Sorry, I inferred from this that you knew they should ski free but decided against the hassle of going to the lift pass office for free passes.
Actually, it's not the case that they can invariably ski "free". As ever, there are conditions; the Paradiski website says ""Children under the age of 6 can get a FREE lift pass of the same type and duration as that of a parent (except for La Plagne 4 hour, season and La Plagne and Paradiski 6 and 12 non-consecutive day passes). "
If you were going for a month, a season pass might be cheaper anyway - in our area a season pass bought in advance only costs the same as 2 weeks regular pass. Though with season passes kids don't ski free.
Of course nobody can be familiar with the pass prices in all resorts, and the ski pass price regimes are always complicated. But they're not secret; resorts mostly have pretty good website and the bit about passes on the Paradiski website seems particularly clear.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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So let me get this straight:
I come up with a scheme that looks like decent value but has a substantial catch for those who are too dim, or too hassled to spot it.
I do so quite deliberatley....I fully intend to catch out those people.
Some people are caught out, I have their money! Clever me. Stupid them. Just as I planned!!
They complain. I don't care. HAHAHA I've got your money, bog-off loser!
A: Now some people say "this is a disgrace, something should be done, what a dodgey business".
B: Other people say, "fair enough, you shouldn't have been such a numpty. Grow up losers, learn and move along"
All clear so far? Maybe a bit blunt, but....
My scheme is Pay-day or sub-prime lending. I am a bank.
So pam w and [b]Lizzard[b].....are you still comfortable being in group B?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
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I stupidly got them the Ski A La Carte pass instead of the hassle of going to the lift pass office for free passes. They are 4 and 5 and *should* ski free in Paradiski totally.
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If you were going for a month, a season pass might be cheaper anyway - in our area a season pass bought in advance only costs the same as 2 weeks regular pass. Though with season passes kids don't ski free.
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689 euro for a season pass for whole of paradisk at the pre-dec 1st price - http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=79067&start=81
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rungsp, have you read their website? If so, how can you possibly claim that they are deliberately trying to catch people out. they keep saying there's a flat rate for everybody, regardless of age.
AND they then pay the lift companies the rate agreed between them, for everyone who goes through the turnstiles, then bill the individuals concerned - the difference between what they pay the lift company and what the individuals pay them, is presumably their margin.
Where, precisely, is the con?
This is a discount scheme which will work for some people, not for others. I recently bought a ticket for 10 journeys through the Fréjus Tunnel, with each individual ticket costing hugely less than the single or return rate. I had to decide whether I was going to make 10 trips in the next two years and, if not, how many fewer I had to make before I would be better off paying ad hoc each time.
If, in the end, I do no more than the four journeys I've done so far, should I have a hissy fit and demand my money back?
Unless I have misunderstood the arrangement the A La Carte company won't have made (as is claimed above) a huge and immoral profit out of the OP's kids?
The local lift company MIGHT have made a big profit though contrary to the impression given by the OP and some others, kids only get free passes under certain fairly limited conditions. Not unless the parents buy a pass for the same duration, and not at all for some season and non-consecutive passes.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pam w wrote: |
| AND they then pay the lift companies the rate agreed between them, for everyone who goes through the turnstiles, then bill the individuals concerned - the difference between what they pay the lift company and what the individuals pay them, is presumably their margin. |
| Ski a la carte website wrote: |
| Ski à la carte is a service offered by Compagnie des Alpes – Domaines Skiables. |
so effectively it's just a promotional offer from the operator(s) of the ski lifts in those areas
FYI - The original focus (I believe) of the card was to allow 'locals' to choose to ski across different resorts within the group and making the process less faffy for the day traveller' and trying to engender loyalty to the group resorts - i.e you choose to ski for the day in a ski a la carte resort rather than going to the (somewhat limited ammitedly) competition. The original website was pretty much french only but then as they've opened up the marketing to bring in some brits they're obviously bring in more customers, not all of whom understand the offer.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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snowboardingmum, Ouch €900 wounded! Sympathy for your costly mistake 
Not sure how this thread has inspired so much hatred!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We are, as a scientist would say, lacking data.
Specifically - "What did the web site say when snowboardingmum booked her ski passes?"
The best I could do via the Wayback Machine was November 2009 (it doesn't appear to have archived the site since then)
So, fwiw -
Nov 09
PREFERENTIAL RATES
Each of the"ski à la carte" network's ski resorts offer specific discounts on the standard adult day pass rate (public rates including VAT):
• Les Arcs/Peisey-Vallandry, La Plagne, Paradiski, Serre Chevalier: about 15% off the price of an adult day pass from Sunday to Friday and 25% off on Saturdays.
• Le Grand Massif, Espace Killy (Tignes, Val d'Isère) : about -15% discount every day.
Furthermore, you benefit from frequent promotional days with 30% off the price of your resort's adult day pass. Do not hesitate in consulting our price simulator to discover them throughout the season.
Feb 12
PREFERENTIAL RATES
The “Ski à la carte” daily rate is a flat rate (no discount for children or seniors)*. Each of the “Ski à la carte” network’s ski resorts offers specific discounts on its standard adult day pass (public rates including VAT):
• Les Arcs/Peisey-Vallandry, La Plagne, Paradiski and Serre Chevalier: about 15% off from Sundays to Fridays, up to 25% off on Saturdays and 30% off on promotional days.
• Espace Killy (Tignes and Val d'Isère) : about 15% off every day and 30% off on promotional days.
• Flaine, Massif and Grand Massif : about 10% off from Sundays to Fridays, 30% off on promotional days and until 40% off on Saturdays.
Furthermore, you benefit from frequent promotional days with 30% off the price of your resort's adult day pass. Do not hesitate to consult our price simulator throughout the season in order to discover them.
*my bold
It appears that at some point in the last 2 years or so Ski a La Carte felt the need to clarify what they were offering
If snowboardingmum booked on the basis of the '09 version, or something like it, then I have some sympathy with her.
If it looked like the current version then I would be more of pam w's opinion.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Shimmy Alcott wrote: |
| [ They are obviously counting on the profit from folks misled in this manner . |
I doubt it if they are if they are pointing it out that its not the right product for kids on their website. If they've changed the website since the OP was "misled" then maybe she's got some case and I would think if they can recover the sums from the individual lift cos then it would be good goodwill practice to at least partially refund the mistake. I suspect the reality is they don't expect anyone to use them for kids so there is no real IT infrastructure for tracking kids and ensuring price parity with regular passes, and thus no real way of correcting in a "computer says no" world.
It would surprise you how bad some big businesses are at doing lots of things even to the extent of really knowing where they make the most profit, so I'd be surprised if this was deliberately set up as a scam. As above it looks like a way of providing some minor benefits (direct to lift billing) for keen but occasional skiing adults.
Perhaps if you achieve anything it might be to encourage them to block the product online for certain age groups so people can't stumble into the wrong thing kinda like the DOB to access any booze company websites.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
missed some mega small print.
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It's the same size as everything else. It's slap in the middle fo the page.
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It is not clear. If I can miss it, anyone can.
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I've never looked at the A La Carte deal in my life before and I got it on first read-through. I'll put my hand up to being bright, but I'm hardly Einstein. It's clear as day.
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dudes
snowheads gold lol
ok bye
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Look chaps.
Yes Lizzard is an accredited grump. But pam w is not, and she and the others who have pointed out that the site is clear about the lack of benefits for kids, and that season passes may have been a better option have a fair point.
We see people coming onto Snowheads to bash a particular TO or product when they haven't been around much before and this single-issue posting to get even isn't always attractive or well received.
It is possible to feel great sympathy for the OP yet acknowledge that they screwed up when the info was all there to see.
The sometimes unfortunately worded contributions of those who think she was done just made the others explain themselves more forcefully ...
Not good.
To the OP. I'm sorry this happened to you. Do come here and ask opinions beforehand the next time you try a cheap deal. Perhaps your post might have been better if it was couched as education rather than a whinge?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'm with pam w and Lizzard on this one. I have used Ski a la Carte in the past, and the lack of a kids price has already been reported on here on another occasion as a reason for not buying one. Also the 960€ was not what she paid for the kids, itr was the total cost for 4 people.
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The Facebook page that Shimmy Alcott points out is for Serre Chevalier and not for Paradiski.
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You know it makes sense.
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stoat of the dead, well said. I am sure We have all done an expensive speed read at some time.
Chill babes.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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snowboardingmum, doesn't deserve any flaming or criticism as she has come on here to post so that others may not fare the same fate that she has and might learn from her experience.
The tread title is "Warning ..."
The opening sentence is... I know this has been covered in other topics but I just want to alert other snowheads to the utter craziness which is the Ski A La Carte car in relation to families.
The rest of the OP is explanation of the individual situation. The asking for help came as an after thought.
snowboardingmum, sorry to hear of your mistake and thanks for being willing to flag up your own error that others may learn by your misfortune.
I hope that you recover some of your costs, though I somehow doubt that you will.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| ... Also the 960€ was not what she paid for the kids, itr was the total cost for 4 people. |
Not quite right...
| snowboardingmum wrote: |
| Bertie. The €900 was for the 4 and 5 year old. We were there for a month. I did manage to read that bit right. |
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ray Zorro, yes and no. And the cost was shocking... enough in fact for me to have wanted to find out what I was buying and whether it was cheap before I purchased...
The personal flaming attacks seemed to be more amongst the 4 female posters on this thread who were debating the issue, and I think the OP got caught in the crossfire.
The OP does however use the words "craziness" "disgusted" and "immoral" in her OP. I don't think it can be viewed as anything other than pejorative...
I know you don't see me as being a voice of balance and reason around here... but hey... deal with it 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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stoat of the dead, you and I read things differently. Some will agree with you, others won't.
Many on here have been negative towards snowboardingmum, and I don't think she deserves it for essentially trying to do the rest of us a favour.
| snowboardingmum wrote: |
1. I know I've been a bit of a flump and missed some mega small print.
2. I just want some of you lovely people at the end of the day to not fall fowl.
3. It is not clear. If I can miss it, anyone can. I also booked these cards last summer and have no proof of what the blinking site looked like way back then. I can't prove anything either way. So shoot me.
Funny how this thread has split people. Quite sad really. |
You might not have got caught out by that particular offer, others would have done. This thread "may" prevent that happening again - even to just one person. Possibly...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I think the key point here is that the OP was not clear about the terms and conditions for young kids getting free ski passes - and still doesn't seem clear. They only ski free under limited conditions which involve buying certain kinds of adult passes (not season passes) locally. As I read the Paradiski website (and I only glanced at it - I'd have paid it a bit more heed if I'd been about to take my family there for a month) even if she had just bought the A La Carte passes for the adults then gone to the lift pass office and asked for free passes for the kids she'd not have got them. Buying ski passes for everybody for a month might not have cost as much as the big bill from A La Carte but the difference would probably have been considerably less than 900 euros. Working it out might help assuage the frustration.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| stoat of the dead wrote: |
The personal flaming attacks seemed to be more amongst the 4 female posters on this thread who were debating the issue, |
Why do I have a vision in my head of 2 female tag teams mud wrestling in bikinis? 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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dudes
the key points here
is that some snowheads are smart @.rses
especially those based in the mountains
and would never get caught out
and love to lord it and point it out
but
the system is flawed
there should be a maximum possible charge or safeguard
limited to total price as if you bought a fully priced ticket
on each occasion/day/half day
that the kids used the slope
ok bye
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pam w, if they were there for a month I would have thought season passes would have been cheaper than SKi a La Carte anyway.
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So you log on and buy a budget airline/ Ryanair style ticket to Chambery but you spell the name of one of your group wrong by accident, Ryanair then charge you £25 to alter your booking. This is in their T & C's but is it fair ? No. Would you all be outraged ? Of course. Although the op didn't really explain the scenario that well initially I do feel she's got cause to be annoyed
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Why do I have a vision in my head of 2 female tag teams mud wrestling in bikinis?
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Because you are a pervert.
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Looked at the site well before this little lot came up, and yes I did spot the flaw in their argument, so didn't pursue.
But it did make me wonder why , when Paradiski is free for the under 6 , they were selling a card which, (similarly to the Zen) might be considered a useful way of basing yourself at one domain with occasional trips elsewhere, yet cost you a right old packet. And specifically promoting the 'register your kids for free' aspect of it, I thought was... how can I put this without getting flamed... "naughty".
I didn't get caught out (where's that SMUG smiley?), but I thought it a bit disappointing the way it was marketed.
We do on this site tend to forget just how much more knowledgeable we have become as a collective, than those without the local insight or community information available here.
Let's not get too arrogant or dismissive of the naive: remember your roots.
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FAQ
