 Poster: A snowHead
|
| pam w wrote: |
| It's also possible to see a whole lot of rubbish snowboarders from the chairlift. when you see a good one, it's like chalk and cheese. |
And from the piste, and from the bar, and from anywhere you like. Snowboarding is "very easy" and only takes "a couple of days to learn". Following which you have licence to go down blacks with the board angled so you are facing down the mountain, and that's fun, eh?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Balancing on the centre of the foot is also important when you're parallel turning, and this often gets missed when students are moving from snowplough to parallel. If anyone would like to know more about a trainer than can help with this, send me a direct message (top right of page) and I can give you more info.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
I do wonder if snowplough is reponsible for people who do behave like statues once they get onto parallelish learning as they learn to snowlough without varying ankle flex? (Possibly I'm well behind the curve on what the modern snowplough is but back in the day it didn't seem that dynamic)
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Boulevards
that is what the Snow Plough is for
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| fatbob wrote: |
| I do wonder if snowplough is reponsible for people who do behave like statues once they get onto parallelish learning as they learn to snowlough without varying ankle flex? (Possibly I'm well behind the curve on what the modern snowplough is but back in the day it didn't seem that dynamic) |
Snowplough is when you should start developing flexion and extension movements (one of the reasons why it's a great drill for experienced skiers if they can stand the shame of skiing at such a 'low level').
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Richard_Sideways, that's because snowboarding is a crayon to skiings fountain pen. Both achieve fundamentally the same thing, but one is far more refined and nuanced than the other.
Not having a pop at snowboarding, some of my best friends etc etc, but the variety and choice that two edges gives you makes skiing technique a never ending learning curve, compared to the 4 or 5 step improvements in SB'ing.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 12-01-12 14:30; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
the variety and choice that two edges
|
speaking for myself, I've got four. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| fatbob wrote: |
| I do wonder if snowplough is reponsible for people who do behave like statues once they get onto parallelish learning as they learn to snowlough without varying ankle flex? (Possibly I'm well behind the curve on what the modern snowplough is but back in the day it didn't seem that dynamic) |
Snowplough is when you should start developing flexion and extension movements (one of the reasons why it's a great drill for experienced skiers if they can stand the shame of skiing at such a 'low level'). |
I spent 30 mins doing snowploughs in a lesson on the PSB, it certainly helped with understanding the mechanics of flexion/extension and engaging the inner ski a lot earlier. As embarrassing as it initially felt, I did eventually enjoy it and it did seem to help improve my skiing later in the week.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Zombie Si wrote: |
| As embarrassing as it initially felt, I did eventually enjoy it and it did seem to help improve my skiing later in the week. |
Clearly so much so that you were able to avoid catastrophic injury
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Zombie Si wrote: |
| I spent 30 mins doing snowploughs in a lesson on the PSB, it certainly helped with understanding the mechanics of flexion/extension and engaging the inner ski a lot earlier. As embarrassing as it initially felt, I did eventually enjoy it and it did seem to help improve my skiing later in the week. |
Glad it worked for you. It's surprisingly challenging to do a good snowplough turn, making all the movements you need to make, at the right time, and at the correct rate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
I'm always amused by watching novice snowboarders doing the 'sidewinder', i.e. where they fail to turn and zig zag their way down the slope on the same edge. If they want to face downhill they should really just learn to ski. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| fatbob wrote: |
| I do wonder if snowplough is reponsible for people who do behave like statues once they get onto parallelish learning as they learn to snowlough without varying ankle flex? (Possibly I'm well behind the curve on what the modern snowplough is but back in the day it didn't seem that dynamic) |
It shouldn't be - if taught properly you should develop all the same felx/extend movements as for parallel skiing. If you watch a good instructor/skier demoing it, it will still involve dynamic movements.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| TotallyBoard, y'know 6 is the perfect age to start her boarding... |
Yeah she's already started learning with me on the bunny slopes. It's difficult to find lessons for a 6yo, her sister has been riding since 6 and now at 10 is riding the park (50-50s, front boards, back boards etc).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Quote: |
What can I do, after her lessons, to help this progression? Leave her alone?
|
take her ONLY on the lifts and pistes that she's already done with her instructor. And open your mouth only to tell her how well she's doing. have plenty of stops and be off the slopes a good while before the lifts stop.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
What can I do, after her lessons, to help this progression? Leave her alone?
|
take her ONLY on the lifts and pistes that she's already done with her instructor. And open your mouth only to tell her how well she's doing. have plenty of stops and be off the slopes a good while before the lifts stop. |
yep good advice for sure - exactly what I would have said.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
I come at this the from the perspective of someone that snowploughed for far longer than I perhaps should have done ('cos I woz scared stiff to do anything else!). I went from Snowplough everywhere, to parallel across the hill with snowplough turns - this rapidly went into stem type turns often with a bit of a ski lift/step to help the leg round, I think because its very difficult to go from parallel across the hill into a proper plough formation for a turn. I then spent a long time doing Z type more or less parallel turns with a big amount of skiddy tails in them. It's really only been over the last two or three holiday weeks (as I am only a 1-2 week a year skier) that I have started to get to grips with big S type turns (and short turns down the edges of packed snow red runs to find the snow - which is my latest big revelation). The S turns seem to have clicked in since I discovered the ability to manipulate the front edges of the ski's - I can now engage these to pull the skis round in a curve and not a Z shape - it is def. to do with having the weight far enough forwards on the ski. Perhaps this is why kids like to snowplough, they don't naturally ski with their weight forwards (I think because they are not heavy enough) and maybe they find it difficult to engage the front of the skis to make nice curves and turns with as a result?
I still sometimes use a snowplough, and wouldn't be without it, it is useful for slowing down if there isn't really enough room to turn (or the slowing down turn would be on a narrow path with a big drop off on one side that I don't like the look of) - it can also be useful for bracing yourself trying to get on the lifts at HH! I can hockey stop on both sides (though better towards the left), but tend to have a top end speed for commencing these beyond which they don't feel safe.
I think all techniques are useful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Feast, where are you going? If it's Les Saisies, quite a fun thing to do is to take the free introductory "cross country" lesson which Glisse Passion run on a Sunday. You will find yourself at much less of an advantage over your OH than you might think. I definitely looked like someone who had never even seen a pair of skis when I did it. As indeed I did through the entire subsequent week of lessons!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
pam w, yes, we're off to LS. I'll give the cross country some consideration. Her lessons are with Passion Glisse anyway.
All I really want is for her to have fun. Regardless of whether or not that involves continously snow ploughing or not.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| fatbob wrote: |
| I do wonder if snowplough is reponsible for people who do behave like statues once they get onto parallelish learning as they learn to snowlough without varying ankle flex? (Possibly I'm well behind the curve on what the modern snowplough is but back in the day it didn't seem that dynamic) |
snowplough seems to be taught differently now to how i learnt it. when i learnt it, you turned by putting pressure on the outside ski. when i dabbled in BASI stuff a few years back, this had changed so that it was all about rotating the skis in the direction you wanted to go. flexing ankles/knees to manage pressure through the turn was also introduced at this stage
when i learnt snowplough, parallel turns were all about unweighting your skinny skis
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Patch wrote: |
ski evolutif
... nothing new |
Hubby and I learned to ski by that method in 1995 in Flaine, I believe it was also popular in Les Arcs. They did teach you to stop using a wide snowplough though (for emergencies).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Dr John wrote: |
Richard_Sideways, that's because snowboarding is a crayon to skiings fountain pen. Both achieve fundamentally the same thing, but one is far more refined and nuanced than the other.
Not having a pop at snowboarding, some of my best friends etc etc, but the variety and choice that two edges gives you makes skiing technique a never ending learning curve, compared to the 4 or 5 step improvements in SB'ing. |
An interesting analogy, one I shall not take offence at, particularly as a crayon can be honed to a fine point, or leave marks subtle and varied depending on its user in a myriad of colours, while a fountain pen is always purchased off the shelf, delivering a set series of identical marks, regardless of user.
Oh, and it'll leak in your pocket at altitude. 
Personally, I think there is a great deal to be said for parred back simplicity. K.I.S.S. and all that...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
Oh, and they'll leak in your pocket at altitude.
|
Blimey skiers weeing in snowboarders pockets in lift queues. Seems a bit harsh, surely they don't deserve that!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Richard_Sideways, never let it be said the snowboarders aren't simple
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Elmer wrote: |
| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
Oh, and they'll leak in your pocket at altitude.
|
Blimey skiers weeing in snowboarders pockets in lift queues. Seems a bit harsh, surely they don't deserve that! |
I hear it's linked to bladder weakness from furiously holding a snowplough for too long. Also why yellow trousers are so popular now among boarders now...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Wasn't there a "New" bit of kit around a while back which was basically 2 thin skis under each foot linked with an angled hinge - doubling the number of edges in contact with the snow? That'd be like one of those pens which you can choose if it's red, green, blue or black with the switch at the top.
... gonna have to find a link now...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Richard_Sideways, I can visualise what you describe - it made me wonder whether anyone had tried placing a line of, I guess miniture castellations across the base of a ski running longitudally to give a successive number of 'edges' across the ski width running from end to end rather than a flat base.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Gazzza, "The Ski" what a lovely and terribly expensive bit of kit. Nice looking bumps though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Off subject slightly, but...
Quite how anyone on properly old fashioned long straight ski's got down a slope is genunely beyond me - let alone a bumpy mogulled one !
I love seeing the old black and white photos you find in the various resort shops/chalets/restaraunts of people skiing on old planks often down some quite impressive looking terrain.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Gazzza, All just about technique. And I think you'll find that current competition bumps skis are relatively straight.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Quote: |
Wonder who "they" were? Sideslipping while facing one direction, putting in a quick pivot and then sideslipping while facing the other direction is not really parallel skiing.
|
Surely it is parallel skiing, just not very good parallel skiing. It's a fair emulation of the style of skiing you'll see in abundance in any resort.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| monkey wrote: |
| Surely it is parallel skiing, just not very good parallel skiing. |
OK, semantic differences I guess. "Not really parallel skiing" and "just not very good parallel skiing" sound pretty similar to me.
| monkey wrote: |
| It's a fair emulation of the style of skiing you'll see in abundance in any resort. |
Yes, unfortunately that's true.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Richard_Sideways, I see the concept - pretty much as you described and the idea of the engineering is quite neat - even plausible to the easily led, but don't you think the images are photo-shopped and the concept a bit of wind up? I've got my doubts that a pair was even mocked up to try. The first of the comments is dated 3/4/09 that's awfully close to April fools day. Have you been 'had', or are you trying to kid the more naive amongst us?
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Fri 13-01-12 17:56; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Hells Bells wrote: |
| Patch wrote: |
ski evolutif
... nothing new |
Hubby and I learned to ski by that method in 1995 in Flaine, I believe it was also popular in Les Arcs. They did teach you to stop using a wide snowplough though (for emergencies). |
Yes, pioneered in Les Arcs, in the 1970s I think
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Megamum, Don't think it's an April Fool, first appeared 03/03/09. TBH It could be a pipe dream, certainally nothing tangible beyond a CAD model and some P/S mockups - but could be plausible (i'll admit I dragged this out of the vault of memory to wind up Dr John after his quip about his numerical edge advantage)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
[quote="Feast"]
| Timbobaggins wrote: |
What can I do, after her lessons, to help this progression? Leave her alone? |
I've been through this exact scenario with my missus. I've skied since I was a kid and introduced her to it only a few years ago. I insist she gos to ski school and then I ski with her in the afternoon. We only ski where she has skied with her school and even then she sometimes hasn't been 100% comfortable without the instuctor there. I guess in a group and with an instructor she has no choice but to follow them despite being nervous about where she's being guided. With me she can ask to be guided down the easiest runs that she is totally happy with rather than "the new one she did that morning and got nervous over". I just treat the afternoon as a time to spend with her whilst she practices what she learnt that day. I don't offer much 'advice' as I'm no teacher and don't want to pass on bad habbits.
I tend to only encourage her, stop loads, make her go first incase she falls over or panic's and just be preparred for a very chilled afternoon of very easy skiing - ski hard in the morning when she's at ski school. Most of the time my missus will stop a quite a bit before the lifts close and heads to the bar so I can have a final blast for the day.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
?? Not quite sure I get how skis are a fountain pen to a snowboards crayon given ski's got there carving edges thanks, in significant part, to the development of the snowboard. Perhaps Dr John would prefer to still be on a pair of these 
