 Poster: A snowHead
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It varies wildly. I skied in Les Arcs for 8 days solo and skied not far off every run in the resort and some mornings I was skiing off piste or shooting pictures. I have also skied in very small places with just a few runs and have had a great time because the terrain has been great. Going to a big resort you can spend hrs trying to find good terrain or it takes an hr going up and down just to get back to where you stay or meet with people for lunch, it's not all good.
Ticking off runs is something I have never even seen! The best skiing isn't on the piste guys, it's like bragging you have driven every motorway in the UK.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 13-12-11 22:07; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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the size of the place isn't necessarily a good guide to having lots of interesting places to visit. Maybe the 3 Valleys is an example? The Sella Ronda is an example of lots of piste PLUS lots of interesting places to visit.
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Some interesting replies, the original post was intended to stir some conversation and opinion and it seems to have done just that. I really like Pila although it's 'only' 70km of pistes I find the terrain is pretty interesting plus I find I have a sense of loyalty to it as I've skied there more than anywhere over ther last 6 or so years working etc. I suggested it to a friend as I know it like the back of my hand but on hearing only 70 odd kms of piste I want at least 200 was his reply!!! I agree a ball park of around 150km for an intermediate is a good number with a few caveats.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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RE: Pila. When we stayed in La Thuile (with its exactly 150km of pistes, shared with La Rosiere) we got mega bored with it, and had day trips to Pila (which we thought was great) and Courmayeur (which we all thought was boring and rubbish).
Next year we went to Valloire/Valmeinier (with its exactly 150km of pistes) and found a great sensation of travel etc all week and didn't get tired of it.
La Thuile and Courmayeur are both of the 'one infinitely wide piste masquerading as 15 different runs' variety, so there's that. Topology of the resort is very important.
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I find Milton Keynes a bit too repetitive and struggle to cover all the 3V in a week, so we aim somewhere in between... 
I'm with Tiger2, and miranda, I like to get to the edges and clock up the miles, feeling like we've achieved something by getting somewhere different, but don't mind if we don't cover every piste, but then tend to stick to a few favourite runs towards the end of the week when we've finished exploring...
But when we were beginners we managed with Avimore and Borovets. One advantage of taking Beginners to big resorts is that the experienced can go off while the newbies are at ski school; also some big resorts have free lifts in the centre.
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| narc wrote: |
| The best skiing isn't on the piste guys. |
Another  trying to kill off OP's beginner...
I think you'd find, narc, that the vast majority of those who catch a flight from Gatwick for their annual one week's skiing don't agree with you. They would say the best skiing is on the blues/greens/in the bar.
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Offpiste doesn't have to be hard or gnarly... Remember people were learning to ski before pistes were invented!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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clarky999, that's true and is a benefit of very quiet areas, which tend to be the smaller ones, because you got lots of accessible stuff that doesn't get tracked out at all. But if you're not an offpisteskiing/Arno/BobinCH type skier (and yourself no doubt), it is good to also have pistes and lifts to hand!
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I tend to agree with the people that say number of KM is not important. I do think variety is important but that may not be correlated with size.
I'm quite happy to spend half a day on the same bit of mountain if it has the best conditions/interesting terrain, etc. It's good to have a resort that offers a combination of steepness/elevation/altitude/shelter in the trees/open bowls.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I think at some point there's scope for a sHs bash to sh*t little resorts with almost no pistes.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I love Glencoe but I've never been there in great conditions.
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You know it makes sense.
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fatbob, well I have, numerous times. What happened to the other sentence in your post referring to the sh*t little USA resorts ? I'm sure conditions over there aren't always great but aren't variable conditions what make skiing challenging, interesting and memorable ? All that skiing in perfect overhead in benign conditions on perfect groomed corduroy is going to do for the average skier is get them to a plateau of competence that they can't get beyond. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Approximately 148.53928 km
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Poster: A snowHead
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Actually, for beginners, or near beginners, the key thing is having gently graduated runs to progress to.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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moffatross, I pulled the second line because it was kinda off point, it's more than possible in Europe to hit little places that rock just that I've never really done it as a road trip. I didn't mean Glencoe is good very rarely just that I've not been lucky enough to hit it when it's been really on e.g. Flypaper complete etc. Had great days over the back of Lemming Ridge at Nevis and on the Cairngorm when the opposite side from the White Lady's been filled in.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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A good rider for a week needs atleast 200km onpiste and plenty offpiste.
Gash riders can get away with 100km.
Size counts.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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^^ Sexy pic. Roadtrip sounds brilliant, 2/3 weeks try and hit 5 or 6 tiny unknown gems in France, Austria, Switzerland and Italy... Got potential!
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It's all very well saying you don't need pistes but, much as I like venturing off the beaten track from time to time, I am neither confident enough in my ability to stay completely out of trouble when in unmarked areas, nor insured to do so. And as I usually ski alone, if I did have a big bail out, there'd be no one there to call International Rescue.
Consequently, away from the utopian off-piste dream, I have to say min 100km of an interesting range of pistes for a week's fun.
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There's a HUGE difference between "need" and "want"
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| James the Last wrote: |
If I might draw some conclusions from the above posts:
1. Complete beginner: needs about 1km of pistes.
2. Intermediate: 150km
3. Somebody with notebook and pencil: up to 2,500km
4. Amazing skier: 0km. Doesn't even need a resort... |
5. Advanced skiing parents with small children <100km.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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6. Transvestite Dutchmen with one Arm > 98.72973 km
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With all due respect, would all the people suggesting the best skiing is off-piste kindly f**k off this thread. The OP clearly states that his group is beginners or early learners. Exactly who do you think you are helping with your blatant showing off?
Grizwald, fwiw, I'd say you need 150k to be comfortable. Even the complete beginners will be cruising the blues after 3 or 4 days. Lapping 2 or 3 of the same pistes get's pretty boring even for learners.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I think everyone is equating ungroomed with deep powder and/or gnarly. It just doesn't have to be like that. There is such a thing as skier packing and on many occasions "off piste" can be in easier skiing conditions than an overtrafficked piste. The nightmare green down into L2A springs to mind.
Dr John, Do you think no one ever learnt before extensive piste bashing? It's all part of the same cycle that leads people to believe they are brilliant skiers because they can "get down" a red and moans about overcrowded runs in peak season. Look at any decent "local" kids ski class, they'll be popping on and off piste, round trees, down bumps etc even from a relatively inexperienced age 1) because it's fun and 2) because it makes them better skiers.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| I think everyone is equating ungroomed with deep powder and/or gnarly. |
I don't think so - as said above, smaller quieter areas are good for playing off piste for non-gnarly skiers. But you mentioned La Grave and clarky999 mentioned somewhere with one lift, one blue and one black piste that he doesn't even bother using as he's off exploring the mountain... and so a couple of people pointed out that this sort of set up is not suitable for people who are not really good off piste skiers... like the OP's mates or even someone like me, who's not a beginner but is not a great skier.
I think you're right to say that skiing ungroomed stuff is a vital part of the learning process. There are a few runs of varying steepness here that don't get groomed and I will practice on those on my own in all sorts of conditions, but am still in reach of lifts, groomed stuff and rescue if needs be!
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Got to love an internet where everyone is tall, athletic, rich as well as skiing exclusively off piste and only using groomed slopes to take a breather and remove their head from up their own ass.
FWIW I can ski off piste but I spend most of my time on it because I ski with a little person who would rather go fast that deep.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
clarky999 mentioned somewhere with one lift, one blue and one black piste that he doesn't even bother using as he's off exploring the mountain... and so a couple of people pointed out that this sort of set up is not suitable for people who are not really good off piste skiers... like the OP's mates or even someone like me, who's not a beginner but is not a great skier.
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I did also say:
| Quote: |
In the past I used to spend a week in Westendorf a year with family and friends - which included some very good skiers. Even though the SkiWelt is pretty massive, we almost exclusively stayed in Westendorf, which is what 50k of pistes? Even now, when I ski a lot more than in those days, I'm happy to spend a week exclusively in Westendorf, I don't mind skiing the same runs there over and over - even not counting the offpiste - as there are some brilliant runs with lots of bumps and ridges to jump off, sections off the side through the trees, etc
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I was kinda hoping the summary would read something along the lines of quality over quantity, but guess that didn't work out...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Think the total piste length good enough for a skier is quite easy to work out.
A beginner would be quite happy say doing 4 runs in the mornimng and another 4 runs after lunch on a drag lift of about 1 to 1.5km long. That is about 8 to 12km a day.
Most skiers would work out about 20 to 30km piste a day. So 6 day skiing would need between 120 to 180km if one wishes to try new lift/run every time.
A good skier may do 30 to 70 km a day and may need a domain of 200 to 300km piste for a week.
However the OP has mentioned La Plagne and reported a long travelling between La plagne and Les Arcs which form the Paradiski domain each side having 200+km piste. Travelling and queuing can cut down the skiers exploring a large domain.
The terrain of the resort also matters. If one stays at one end of a resort, say Courchevel 1650 he/she has to repeat the same route everyday to get to other parts of 3V. In such a case he/she is better off staying at somewhere at the middle like Meribel. Circular loop domain like Sella Ronda and Saalbach/Hinterglemm are popular because there is a defined direction, sign-posted clockwise and anticlockwise directions for Sella Ronda, to follow and no need to return by the same route.
Some SH here object to selecting a resort for the sake of clocking up the mileage. However a larger resort can also have more scope to explore, to travel around, more restaurants, more lifts and more runs. For my money I rather miss out the odd <100km resorts than mega ones like 3V, Paradiski, Espace Killy, LDH, Serre Chevalier, Milky Way, PDs, Dolomites, Ski Welt, Ski Amade.....
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Poster: A snowHead
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| homers double wrote: |
Got to love an internet where everyone is tall, athletic, rich as well as skiing exclusively off piste and only using groomed slopes to take a breather and remove their head from up their own ass.
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Best post of the day.
hohoho
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| fatbob wrote: |
| Dr John, Do you think no one ever learnt before extensive piste bashing? |
Of course not. But significantly more people have been able learn the wonderful pastime of skiing after extensive piste bashing. People also learned to ski before modern boots and skis were invented. Are you also advocating a return to 7 foot solid wooden skis, goat skin boots and cable bindings? Or do you, perhaps, think that general skiing participation and enjoyment has increased with modern innovations?
And regarding "popping on and off piste", the key word there is "piste". Geddit?
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 14-12-11 14:08; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Well I AM the raddest skier on the interwebz
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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clarky999,
??
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 14-12-11 14:20; edited 2 times in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Dr John,
Piste off?
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| homers double wrote: |
| Got to love an internet where everyone is tall, athletic, rich as well as skiing exclusively off piste and only using groomed slopes to take a breather and remove their head from up their own ass. |
OK you sussed me out. To be honest I'm 5' 8", I spend most of my time on the button lift riding the piste with super wide gnarly skis. The only time I make a clean carve is when cutting up the X-mas turkey. Then I take a little excursion into a 12cm 'deep' bit at the side of the piste and hang on in the back seat for dear life. Every ski day is awesome but the more I drink at Apres Ski the better I was.
It would probably get to me if I wasn't so well endowed.
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I'm a bit like WayneC, in my skiing. I like to have a bit of an explore around, go to the different areas, stop for lunch at the opposite end of the piste map to the day before, in doing so trying to cover all the areas in my first few days. I treat it as a bit of an adventure, even on piste I've been to areas that to me feel pretty remote - if I stopped and sat there for 5 mins 50 people might come past, but if I keep moving and no one is around it feels remote.
If I didn't have an explore and a look about I'd be worried I've missed somewhere special. After the first few days and I've had a good explore I go back to areas I've really enjoyed and play about.
I'm not good/confident enough to be going off piste, I wouldn't be too sure where/what's safe and what isn't. I've been taken off piste by an instructor though and managed fine.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FLOL! ^
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| fatbob wrote: |
| I think at some point there's scope for a sHs bash to sh*t little resorts with almost no pistes. |
I'd be well up for that.
We had an excellent weekend between Disentis/Sedrun two seasons ago. What? You've never heard of them?
Can I also specify excellent luncheon spots?
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FAQ
Guess what one thing the skiing superheroes complain most about it though. 
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