 Poster: A snowHead
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| ChrisWo wrote: |
Pedantica, I suppose that is a fair point. I'm no expert but I can't see a problem with taking out an annual multi-trip and then buying a single trip policy to cover any trips over the 17 days. Given a chance I'd do quite a lot more than 17 days this season, but it's still going to work out cheaper than the £390 the BMC want to charge me (which, for those who are counting, would be a quadrupling of insurance costs  ) |
Wow, what cover are you going for? Works out about £150 for my annual multi trip with them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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My head is actually starting to spin with all this - As another Direct Travel refugee I set aside the morning to try and sort our annual travel insurance. I don't really feel I am that much further forward to be honest. We will probably be doing 30 - 40 days skiing and want cover for off piste without a guide (we're by no means experts but like to dabble a bit). The main stumbling block has been the issue of the off piste cover and skiing "within local guidance" or words to that effect and whatever that really means.
So far, for us, SCGB look the most promising as they have phoned me back to confirm they will cover off piste with or without a guide with avalanche warning risk as 1,2 or 3 which is better than Snowcard. it's £145 for us as a couple if you take off a couple of their options but you have to pay £90.00 to join so it's effectively £235.00. BMC worked out at £287.00 and £51.00 to join so £338.00.
However, I am still wrestling with the whole Carte Neige (we ski in France), EHIC, + annual travel (non winter sports) insurance question. I get (I think) the fact that with Carte Neige in the event of an accident on or off piste you would be brought off the mountain and deposited in a (possibly private) medical facility. EHIC would give you a certain level of cover if you were treated in a non-private hospital - but if you were treated in a private hospital which your EHIC didn't cover, are we saying that if you only had 'normal' travel insurance (i.e. without winter sports cover) then you may not be covered under your 'normal travel policy' as the accident occurred when you were participating in a winter sport?
I hope that makes sense, as you can probably tell my brain's gone a bit now with all this - Has anyone else had any success in sorting themselves this year?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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loatie, there's not really anything in France that wouldn't at some point be refundable by your EHIC card, apart from the costs of ambulances . French healthcare would refund around 70%, as would your EHIC. The private facility would probably be the Cabinet Medical, who would transfer you to the local public hospital if it was a more serious injury anyway. Costs in the public hospital are a daily charge of 16€. Very few private hospitals or clinics operate totally outside of the public system. Your ordinary travel policy wouldn't cover you for repatriation. I will be looking for a replacement for our Direct Travel policy after the New Year. I'm also covered with our Nationwide account so must look into what we need on top of that.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Further to what Hells Bells said about the EHIC just giving a discount - my 3 nights in Moutiers hospital last year would have cost €1000 per night but reduced to €280 per night by having an EHIC. Fortunately my insurance covered that, because I didn't have €840 spare!
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bobmcstuff, That is really strange. My friend was in the public hospital in Moutiers and he only had to pay 16 or 18 Euros a day as Hells Bells, said by the time he receieved his refunds. The health card picked up the rest. Do you know why you were charged so much per day (280 euro). Would be interesting for us all if you are willing to share the details. I quite understand if you prefer not to. Getting hurt is never any fun and best forgotten.
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| rungsp wrote: |
What news of the fabled SnowHeads Insurance that hopefully has been designed with such issues in mind (multi trips, more days/year and off piste)
Admin....we need it and we need it very soon....each day is another day nearer to the "too late, had to buy another" day. |
Bump - the aspiration of before the PSB leaves erm ....tomorrow and if we get a couple of weeks into December I think many others will fall into the too late bucket.
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snowcrazy, hubby paid the 16-18€ per day charge in Grenoble hospital. I suppose without EHIC it would have been much more, although the scottish guy in the next bed was able to sort it out by giving his National Insurance number to his insurers, who applied for the card at home on his behalf, and they sorted it out directly with the hospital. I remember going to the finance office to sort it out too. I was so stressed and tired that I thought his EHIC card was my own NHS ID card, as I'd replaced it back in my wallet face down, and could only see the NHS symbol.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowcrazy, don't know really, that's just what it said on the bill! I didn't worry about it much because the insurers got the assistance company involved early on and they sorted it all out. Very efficiently too, I must say. I had a fractured vertebra and a slipped disc, no surgery or anything, just 3 nights in a ward. Back brace and scans etc. were charged seperately IIRC, so that money was just for the hospital stay. Also got stung for about 70€ for the initial x-ray in the doctor's surgery in Champagny, guess that's to be expected.
I also had a private flight home from Chambery - me, a doctor and two pilots... Door to door from the Alps to Bristol in 5 hours!! Again, sorted out by the assistance company.
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| loatie wrote: |
| We will probably be doing 30 - 40 days skiing and want cover for off piste without a guide (we're by no means experts but like to dabble a bit). |
If I were an insurer that would be the moment for my OMG reaction.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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James the Last,
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Fri 25-11-11 20:39; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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James the Last,
I can see what you're saying but I have to say that playing about in some nice fluffy stuff off piste with the family, having fun and in my case doing about two or three turns and then gently falling over much to everyone's delight has sometimes felt infinitely less perilous than being on a crowded piste with a lot of hackers racing about.
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James the Last, why? From time to time I ski off piste without a guide. I know others who do too.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Why? It's the "dabble a bit" which would surely give an insurer an OMG moment! Just for the record, I'm not an insurer and I too like to "dabble a bit"(c). Following an ESF instructor and 15 school children off the edge of the piste isn't exactly extreme skiing.
I haven't looked out any of these links, but MSE seem to have done all the work.
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/latesttip/#insurance
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Poster: A snowHead
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James the Last, it's not quite that simple. None of the comparison sites do more than scratch the surface - it takes ages to go to each insurer and search through the small print to find out everything you need to do. As for off-piste - it's all very opaque, as I discovered when after three phone calls to Dog Tag I was none the wiser about what was covered.
And it's become more complex this year - a very expensive policy (top of the range AMEX) which covered my needs last year, doesn't cover them this year. I received the renewal notice but it was only after a useful tip-off on Snowheads that I read properly through the pages and pages of small print attached to it that I discovered it was no use to me.
I'm still looking.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I now find I have two travel policies with our current accounts. Neither have winter sports cover, but one can be upgraded. No skiing without a guide though, so back to the drawing board on that one.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Has anybody checked out this? https://partner.eti-insurance.com/B2C/index.aspx
It *looks* like a policy that facilitates many weeks of off-piste skiing without a guide (the Seasonnaire option with "PRO" level, that is...)
At first glance it looks like if I consider myself a self-employed seasonnaire, I could be skiing 40 days for under £100.
Too good to be true? I'll read the wording and get back...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Elske, I think returning to the Uk would void the policy?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Elske, returning would definitely void the policy. As would saying you are self employed if you're not. That link doesn't work for me.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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though..... some seasonnaire policies can be amended, to allow a trip home - at extra cost. My son did this once - the extra cost was not much at all. Worth looking at provided you don't have to tell any lies - never a good idea with insurance companies.  I'm still looking.
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pam w, Strange - not sure why, maybe the https - try http://partner.eti-insurance.com/B2C/index.aspx?
Well I am self employed so that is not a lie, but I would be back home for a week in the middle. Thanks for the tip.
Hmm. Maybe I'll call them. God, I hate phoning insurance companies. My knee ligaments hurt at the prospect.
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cran
cran
Guest
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Try http://www.mpibrokers.com/
£94.88 for 121 days cover (10 Dec to 8 April) in Europe and Switzerland including off piste and fun parks.
Would be £175 with baggage and cancellation cover, but they seem a bit pointless when I'm there for the whole season.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| loatie wrote: |
| So far, for us, SCGB look the most promising as they have phoned me back to confirm they will cover off piste with or without a guide with avalanche warning risk as 1,2 or 3 which is better than Snowcard. |
Hi, in the position of sorting out our insurance. Have been with SCGB for last few years based on the offpiste cover but can't recall seeing any mention of avalanche warning risk. Took another look through the T&C's and can't find it.
Was this just something they mentioned on the phone?
I know this is all a nightmare but just wondered...
Ta,
Gary
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Elske, I found the company OK but couldn't make head or tail of the policy wordings on their website - a helpful person is going to ring me back with some quotes.
It might also be useful to mention that Snowcard now allow for trips of up to 60 days. Though we found them very good in the past, we had to give up using them when we started doing longer trips.
The only problem is that in order to qualify for more than 4 weeks skiing in a single year you have to tick the "Extreme Adventure" box, which allows for all sorts of activities which bear zero resemblance to the very elderly sort of pottering around we do!
Snowcard is also good in that it allows you to knock off all the things like late departure, cancellation etc which are not relevant if you drive to your own place. Their premium came out at £280 - better than the SCGB which was £217 plus £90 to join the club.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Gadge, My concerns have centred around trying to get cover for when we are skiing off piste without a guide. Most of the insurance companies that I researched who offer cover have some sort of stipulation in their policy wording that you are covered only if 'skiing within the local advice or guidelines' (or whatever the correct terminology is). I was trying to get somewhere with the whole issue of what this actually means regarding skiing off piste without a guide when each of the avalanche level risk warnings are in force. Basically I asked the question would we be covered skiing off piste without a guide if the Avalanche risk level was 1,2 or 3? (Level 4 or 5 I wouldn't be going off piste anyway). As you say, this isn't specifically mentioned in the policies and as other snowheads have said it all seems a bit woolly. I think earlier on in the thread it was mentioned that you are only covered with Snowcard if the risk level is 1 or 2, whereas SCGB said it would cover risk levels 1,2 and 3. Having said that, I haven't actually got that in writing.........
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks loatie, suspected it was a phone comment. Just concerned that it was a "thou shalt not" term. Think I'll stick with the SCGB for simplicity.
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| Quote: |
I think earlier on in the thread it was mentioned that you are only covered with Snowcard if the risk level is 1 or 2, whereas SCGB said it would cover risk levels 1,2 and 3. Having said that, I haven't actually got that in writing.........
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I might try to check with snowcard tomorrow. At least being covered for 1 and 2 is better than Dogtag, who told me you shouldn't go off piste if there is any warning. 
One would hope it would not be as black and white as a specific avalanche warning level - which is a very broad brush. There are slopes which might be very dangerous at level 3, depending on wind direction, slope aspect, angle etc and slopes which would be pretty safe at level 4.
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You know it makes sense.
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| pam w wrote: |
| One would hope it would not be as black and white as a specific avalanche warning level - which is a very broad brush. There are slopes which might be very dangerous at level 3, depending on wind direction, slope aspect, angle etc and slopes which would be pretty safe at level 4. |
It isn't that simple, though is it. (To steal the words of somebody wiser than I am.  ) Insurers like ticking boxes as it's cheap and easy so to do. For £200 per year you cannot expect them to undertake a risk assessment every time you go out skiing!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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What ski insurance would i need for day trip skiing at the English Club slopes in the Pennines for example which could result in a skiing accident?
Would insurance companys regard such club slopes as skiing off piste as they are probably not (In their view) recognised as established skiing resorts such as CairnGorm, Anoch Mor and Glenshee are?
Would there be a rescue services cost payable for getting the injured person off the hill, especially if a Helivac is required in the same way injured climbers or Hikers are recovered?
Seems like an insurance policy grey area if you are day trip skiing but are not on a standard skiing holiday c/w accommodation.
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Poster: A snowHead
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cc_7up, In the UK Air Ambulance, Air Sea Rescue helicopter, MRT evacuation are free to the user - so no need for insurance at all.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've just been trying to sort out our insurance for next year, and this thread was really helpful so I thought I'd post a quick update with the quotes I got in case it's useful for anyone. I've only looked for my specific circumstances, and I've not done anything particularly complicated like cross-check the levels of cover or look at the wording too hard (although the insurers I've picked are all alpine specialists so I'd hope they'd do sensible things...). I guess I'm saying YMMV, and I accept no responsibility for anything at all...
My search: Annual multi-trip insurance for a couple, covering off piste skiing (inc. without a guide) and for around 30 days skiing a year. We're off to Japan so I've had to choose "worldwide" for most insurers (BMC being the only one I recall that had a "worldwide excl. USA" option).
BMC Alpine: £379
Snowcard Max Adventure: £264
SCGB Executive: £251
DogTag: £221
Snowboard Club: £190
BASI Blue: £176 (Bronze) £193 (Silver)...which is odd given that BASI is just Dogtag reskinned
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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not sure if it has changed for recent policies but mine (taken out Jan 2011) says
"Cover is in place for winter sports: .... Premier, Premier Plus and Senior Citizens annual multi-trip cover - for a period not exceeding 17 days for each journey during the period of cover."
To me that means you can have as many trips as you like as long as each trip doesnt exceed 17 days.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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eithnem, which company? Direct Travel? If so, yes it has changed to 17 days per year skiing not 17 days per trip. Those taking out policies after the middle of March were affected.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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ChrisWo, whay did you choose "Max Adventure" with Snowcard? My reading was that offpiste without a guide was included in the "Adventure" rate
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holidayloverxx, I didn't fully understand what the Adventure level covered because the wording on Snowcard's website is pretty opaque (and I couldn't be bothered to read the actual policy wording). Whereas the Max Adventure seemed like it must cover the majority of off piste skiing:
Adventure: "Includes upto 4 weeks of winter sports activities – cross country, piste and slack country, park and pipe."
Max Adventure: "Includes upto 4 weeks of winter sports activities as above plus – lift served freeride, back country touring, heli and snowcat skiing."
I guess they're defining "slack country" as off piste next to a piste or something similar, but it didn't make me feel like it would cover me getting a lift and dropping off the back of a ridge somewhere...that's much more likely to be lift served freeride or touring. Having said all that, 4 weeks isn't really enough for me, so Snowcard were never in the running.
Also worth noting that Snowboard Club UK have now posted something on their website advising that as of 1st Jan they aren't offering insurance anymore because of "proposed massive premium increases across the board"! Linky
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ChrisWo, Thanks - you are more hardcore than me!
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ChrisWo, which policy did you buy from that list?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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For anyone still looking Henry's Avalance Talk has a very useful article on off piste insurance here. Interesting and useful stuff...I've done some quotes from the various companies referred to and there were some good value policies there.
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Just renewed my insurance with MPI Brokers and was reading the small print. Not that I intend any off piste but this seems clear as to what they cover.
"Off Piste Skiing/Snowboarding
Many policies either exclude this or limit skiing 'off piste' to be with a guide.
It is our view that this is impractical as one can ski 'off piste' unwittingly and in certain circumstances it is possible to ski on a 'pisted' run which is designated 'off piste'.
It is due to this type of confusion that we at MPI Brokers have negotiated with underwriters that there is no such exclusion or limitation in this policy. There is, however, a general requirement, common to all insurance to behave in a reasonable and sensible manner"
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FAQ
worth reminding people of this from time to time. I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if you couldn't do the same in a French clinic.
