 Poster: A snowHead
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Mac22, well you could definitely do with learning the correct techniques on easy slopes! dare to dive, keep on top of the skis, etc etc etc. Loads of people aren't scared doing stuff that's beyond their technique - that's clear to any chairlift watcher. But perhaps the wish to be in control grows with age, and perhaps, on the whole, is greater amongst women.
(Maybe that's complete rubbish - and obviously there are plenty of individual exceptions).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Piccadilly wrote: |
Has anyone here ever had a fear of steeps? How did you get over it?
I've been skiing for 23 years, and I've developed a terrible fear of steep slopes in my old age. I've started to avoid black runs, and feel panic rising in me when I get to one of those ridges where everyone stands along it, looking down.
I used to go down steep black runs without a second thought, but some kind of self-preservation instinct has now kicked in, and I'm afraid to pole plant and make that first turn.
This season I'm going to book a private lesson on steeps, see if I can get over it.
Any tips? Similar experiences? |
not much help sorry I have a similar fear.... once on the slope no problem it's the getting over the cornice that scares me even if it is only 1' drop in... guess it's standing at the top and looking down... the fact that your eyes are 6' up and you are looking down makes it look steeper than it actualy is...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I suppose it depends on why steep terrain is causing difficulty. If it is for technical or tactical reasons there's a lot you can do on relatively gentle slopes, and some might argue that there's a lot that you should do on gentle slopes as it's an easier environment to acquire new skills. But if the reasons are more psychological (which seems to be the case from what the OP said) working on increasingly steep terrain using some of the tips that stoat of the dead suggests would be useful, especially if you can do it with a skier you are happy to lead you, such as trusted friend or an instructor.
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rob@rar, agreed. I'm fine with stoat of the dead's tips too (so to speak).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If you can stretch to it, I would consider a week long course like the Warren Smith. I'm sure that would nail this. Skiing in a small group of people all about your level, getting roughly 6 hours if tuition a day, working on technique, going on increasingly more difficult terrain would sort you out.
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There are a number of elements you can address to improve your confidence:
Most people get psyched by 'normal' steeps because they cannot control their speed properly due to technique issues; they get away with this on gentler slopes (blues) because speed doesn't build to much even with lazy skiing or slopes without sustained periods of steeper pitch (reds) due to runouts of flatter pitch. If you can properly finish your turns you can ski anything at any speed and that will give you the confidence in tackling steep slopes because until you are into jump turning serious steeps off piste the technique is no different. Most people are just not aggressive enough with their body position or their edging.
Another thing is when and it what conditions you attempt steeper slopes. If you go in the morning just after the snow has softened the well groomed back is a walk in the park compared to a chopped up lumps/hardpack black late in the day, work on the steeper stuff then and then work up to more tricky conditions.
One final aspect is gear. If you have skis that bite hardpack and boots that fit well it inspires confidence to tackle more difficult pistes, poor gear makes anyone tentative.
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Pedantica, fnarr fnarr... 
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| Quote: |
Most people are just not aggressive enough with their body position or their edging.
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I think that is what my French instructor meant by my needing to be more "tonique". He was certainly going at it with a lot more attack than I was, getting round much quicker, checking his edges much quicker and getting the rebound into the next turn.
(makes me feel tired just writing about it.....  )
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| stoat of the dead wrote: |
| Sorry. I know there are a few inside-out groupies on this thread, but I'm with Snowball. I think the place to practice steep stuff is small pitches of steepish stuff where you have a clear run-out. It.s the psych thing of committing downhill many people seem to have difficulty with. |
I had a steeps lesson on holiday this year when it was pretty icy which was particularly useful. We were mainly on reds which I'm comfortable on learning technique to ski steeper slopes. The first time we skied the run the instructor asked me to follow his tracks and of course I slid down the hill more than him. We then worked on being more aggressive so I was no longer sliding on the ice and could follow his tracks exactly. On the way down at the end of the lesson we were skiing a blue and the instructor did some very tight slalom turns and got me to try to follow his tracks again. A lot of what you need to ski in control on the steeps will help you to do very short, tight turns on a flatter slope so I imagine you could do this sort of thing in a snowdome, really aggressive short turns with a strong pole plant.
oh and my top tip for steeper slopes is to keep turning 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| lynseyf wrote: |
| my top tip for steeper slopes is to keep turning |
Yes, use that rebound, don't stop and think about the next turn, it makes the turn more difficult.
Important too when you are in a white-out I find. I don't get dizzy and lose my sense of up and down if I keep turning short turns so the forces of the turn are not ambiguous.
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I have heard from a few people about a "C" shaped body position, and its importance especially on stepper slopes. Anyone care to elaborate..?
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You know it makes sense.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Perhaps the OP already has a superb short steered turn technique and just has a mental block about steep slopes |
My turns are pretty controlled, it's mostly the mental block which is the problem. 'The fear' makes me do all the things I know I shouldn't do, ie leaning into the hill, and tensing up.
I think I just need an instructor to say "Do this, always do this and do THIS!" and help my confidence return.
What's so annoying is that I know I can do it, it's the voice in my head going "NOOOO YOU'RE GOING TO FALL!".
Some great input in this thread, thank you.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Piccadilly wrote: |
| My turns are pretty controlled, it's mostly the mental block which is the problem. 'The fear' makes me do all the things I know I shouldn't do, ie leaning into the hill, and tensing up. |
It's sods law that right at the time we most need to make strong and decisive movements our mind makes us tense and tentative.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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A respected instructor friend of ours used to get us to consciously loosen/relax whole body before desending steeper (or at least what we perceived as steep at the time) slopes. I still do this now when I remember but it's no good trying to do it once you start obviously.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Piccadilly wrote: |
| My turns are pretty controlled, it's mostly the mental block which is the problem. 'The fear' makes me do all the things I know I shouldn't do, ie leaning into the hill, and tensing up. |
In that case, DON'T stop at the edge of the steep.
Just keep skiing pass the edge. You'll be less likely to do all those "things you shouldn't do" if you start by doing the things you SHOULD do before the transition.
| Jonny Jones wrote: |
Interesting that some people don't like to stop on the edge. I love steeps, but nearly always stop just before a lip so that I can survey the slope and plan my path down. I particularly look out for natural obstacles - rocks, bushes, big drops, etc -
I'm not sure that getting into the habit of plunging blind into the abyss is altogether wise! |
If where you're skiing has rocks, bushes and big drops, you're probably skiing off-piste?
For on-piste slopes, there's usually no rock, no bush and most certainly no big drops. So the other side of the lips will only be more piste. No practical purpose stopping at the lip.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Mon 17-10-11 0:59; edited 1 time in total
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I'm with snowball and stoat here.
Whilst often learning in an easier environment is the safest and quickest way to master a skill, I don't think lessons in a dome will help the OP. If I were teaching him, I'd be practising the technique and skills on something easy, but asap I'd be moving onto steeper terrain - certainly within a couple of hours, the progression from technique practise to beating the mental demons is key. You can learn the technique in a dome if you want, but if it's a few weeks before you're on the mountain on the steeps, it'll all be forgotten.
IMO, best thing to do is get 2/3 hours of private lessons on your next holiday.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
I think I just need an instructor to say "Do this, always do this and do THIS!" and help my confidence return.
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If you ever see a looney heading down the slopes shouting arm, leg, knee you will know this is me in fallback mode!!
| Quote: |
Has anyone found on a particularly steep slope that falling (and therefore travelling over a substantial amount of terrain on backside) has turned out to be quite a relief? First quick check that nothing broken, second that you have all your gear and third.........oh looks like I'm nearly at the bottom.
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And yes - can think of one particular occasion where this was me.... I had my 7 yr old daughter there to sort me out... how bad is that!!
Think this is a bit like the fear of flying - one of my managers at work had flown all over the world for years and then all of a sudden developed an irrational fear of flying and had to come up with coping strategies/ take himself through fear of flying course etc. Having my little tricks that I know will make me relaxed enough to ski properly combined with making sure kids are ok (so no time to stop and think omg am I really going down that) meant that I didn't have any freezing moments at all the last two trips and was def skiing steeper stuff than I had before.
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What a great thread, I am probably in the OP category where my technique is ok (I think) can do short turns comfortably etc. but on a steeper slope tended to always ski to the edge and run out of slope, then step backwards and in the early early days this could go on and on, while my group was down the bottom on what would have been a blue at the time
I am now skiing steeper slopes, the odd blacks, but still have the worry that when I turn into the fall line my legs will go to jelly and I won't manage to turn again. One thing that helped me was instead of looking down the slope all the time, was to just look at the snow. I obviously have a quick look now and again to make sure I won't crash into anyone, and I haven't been on any blacks that have been too busy, so it has been fine to do this. I have a fear of heights which doesn't help, so looking all the way down the slope isn't good for me, so just looking at the snow in front of my turns has helped a lot.
Going to be taking on board the helpful tips on this thread for my next holiday.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Interestingly I discovered recently that my fear of steeps is in fact of a particular gradient - snow or no snow. I was scrambling down a rocky/earthy incline which suddenly got steeper and I got the same "I just don't want to be here" feeling I get on steeper slopes when skiing. I have faith in my technique - but just quite literally don't like steeps of any nature. I suppose it's almost a form of vertigo (from which I have never knowingly suffered)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Hmmm, I never thought of it as a slight vertigo...maybe that's part of it.
I actually don't mind short bits of steep, because I know there wouldn't be far to fall. The steeps which scare me are the LONG ones where you think "If I go, I'm going a long way.....!".
I suppose we all have a comfort zone, and I don't like being out of mine!!
Put it this way, my idea of the run from hell would be Le Tunnel at ADH. I can't see myself ever doing that.
I attempted Harakiri at Mayrhofen a couple of years ago. I put in a couple of turns but I was way too scared and ended up falling. I let people persuade me and I shouldn't have 
I managed Le Face at Val D back in April. I wasn't comfortable, but I made it down OK, I just kept going. This is what made me think that if I could improve my steeps technique, I might enjoy it more. I'd definitely have another bash at Le Face if I went there again.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| eng_ch wrote: |
| Interestingly I discovered recently that my fear of steeps is in fact of a particular gradient - snow or no snow. I was scrambling down a rocky/earthy incline which suddenly got steeper and I got the same "I just don't want to be here" feeling I get on steeper slopes when skiing. I have faith in my technique - but just quite literally don't like steeps of any nature. I suppose it's almost a form of vertigo (from which I have never knowingly suffered) |
It's called exposure, that feeling of being uncomfortably "out there". It gets worse the more airy feeling your position is. One way of at least normalising the experience it is to take up climbing. 
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Straight line it.
On a more serious note allot of this is in the mind as previously mentioned. With groups I've been with tiredness comes into it allot, when my mates took up skiing I told them that fitness is every bit as important IMO as good equipment. I've no doubt the day will come that I can no longer ski like I'm in my 20's. Have a look on YouTube for some lessons. Bode Miller has some on there one on steeps lasts about 12 mins.
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You know it makes sense.
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Grizwald, your point about fitness is very true. This year I've been working on getting as fit as possible. I've been hitting the gym hard four times a week since February, and I've started ski specific exercises now in preparation for the new season. I hope it makes a big difference.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| abc wrote: |
| Jonny Jones wrote: |
Interesting that some people don't like to stop on the edge. I love steeps, but nearly always stop just before a lip so that I can survey the slope and plan my path down. I particularly look out for natural obstacles - rocks, bushes, big drops, etc -
I'm not sure that getting into the habit of plunging blind into the abyss is altogether wise! |
If where you're skiing has rocks, bushes and big drops, you're probably skiing off-piste?
For on-piste slopes, there's usually no rock, no bush and most certainly no big drops. So the other side of the lips will only be more piste. No practical purpose stopping at the lip. |
Not at all. There are plenty of steep single and double diamond runs in North America with those obstacles in abundance, and I can think of many itinerary runs in Austria or Switzerland with blind drops and hidden obstructions. Dropping into an unfamiliar (and, by definition, a run is unfamiliar if you've been too scared to ski it previously) steep run with speed carried over from the preceding section is asking for trouble. Maybe the gradient increases unexpectedly. Maybe there's a fallen child - yes, kids love steeps, too - just over the lip. Maybe there's a patch of moguls that are a little beyond your ability.
Everyone's different, but my fear starts to dissipate when I plan a run. My own phobia is steep, hard-packed ice, but I find I'm much less nervous if I stop at the top of an icy section and plan a few turns. Planning my route gives me confidence that I won't, for example, find that I need to make an unexpected critical turn on a section of adverse camber where the grip is even poorer than usual.
Some of these have been said before, but to overcome fear of steeps I'd suggest:
- Start with short steep sections with a good run-out so the price of failure is low
- Start in perfect snow conditions. Definitely no ice!
- Choose some turning points in advance; aim for them and make sure you follow your plan. Concentrating on your turns will take your mind off the steepness
- Focus on your technique. Well executed turns will work perfectly until you hit a slope of maybe 40 degrees (after that, you might need to adapt your approach) so trust your legs and skis to do their job. They will work - you don't need particularly advanced skills to stay in control on the steep sections
- Steep slopes often get very polished, so aim to turn where you can see pockets of soft snow
- If your technique is strong but your mental attitude is lacking, many people - me included - find steep moguls and steep powder much less intimidating that steep groomers. Again, it's because the price of failure is lower - these surfaces will usually arrest any fall before it gets serious
- Wait until the slope is completely clear of other skiers. Worrying about hitting or being hit will only add to your fear
And, of course, much of the advice given by others is extremely sensible.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Some fears are irrational but not all fears should be discarded. From the look of it, some of people don't quite have the technique to be "in control" in the steeps. So you're right to be in fear and NOT go down those slopes.
If you can't turn at will, you need to work on that instead of ignoring the fear and charge down the slope. What if you find someone in your path and are forced to turn quickly? If you worry about what to do if you fall, you need to learn how before going down it. Just in case you do fall. Something in your head is giving you a caution on some "what if's". You know you don't have the skill to deal with those what if's. So ignoring the hiden danger is not healthy.
I myself had been somewhat blind to that fact for some time. I routinely skied steep slopes without thinking too much of the consequences, because I rarely fall. But last winter, I saw a mate fall on a slope I ski more than once and he slid a looooong way. Now I have a healthy fear of such gradians. I ski those same slope ONLY if conditions are not icy. And I will be a lot quicker to start the self-arrest move!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| Jonny Jones wrote: |
Interesting that some people don't like to stop on the edge. I love steeps, but nearly always stop just before a lip so that I can survey the slope and plan my path down. I particularly look out for natural obstacles - rocks, bushes, big drops, etc -
I'm not sure that getting into the habit of plunging blind into the abyss is altogether wise! |
If where you're skiing has rocks, bushes and big drops, you're probably skiing off-piste?
For on-piste slopes, there's usually no rock, no bush and most certainly no big drops. So the other side of the lips will only be more piste. No practical purpose stopping at the lip. |
Not at all. There are plenty of steep single and double diamond runs in North America with those obstacles in abundance, and I can think of many itinerary runs in Austria or Switzerland with blind drops and hidden obstructions. Dropping into an unfamiliar (and, by definition, a run is unfamiliar if you've been too scared to ski it previously) steep run with speed carried over from the preceding section is asking for trouble. Maybe the gradient increases unexpectedly. Maybe there's a fallen child - yes, kids love steeps, too - just over the lip. Maybe there's a patch of moguls that are a little beyond your ability. |
The OP was talking about groomed runs.
In North America, if the upper section of the run is groomed, I've never seen the lower part is not. Itineraies are never groomed so it's not what the OP is talking about.
Point being, by the time you go ski itineries, you (hopefully) have good enough speed and direcctional control to stop or go around if you do find a fallen child below the lip.
Off piste, yes, one have no choice but to stop at the edge of anything concave, in order to have a look at what's beyond the horizon. But hopefully, you're not doing those terrain alone. So you're only the point person SOME of the time. The rest of the time, you know what's below because your mate had checked it out already.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Re stopping. No one should ever be going over a lip in a way where they are not able to stop within the distance they can see. A fundamental safety rule for piste skiing. Unless you are doing a jump and have a spotter below to warn you.
What doesn't work for many people is standing in a herd, waiting to see who will go first when the change in slope is relatively small. Only place I would stop to plan is in trees or something very narrow, even then I think I do better when I don't consciously think, and react instead.
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| stoat of the dead wrote: |
Re stopping. No one should ever be going over a lip in a way where they are not able to stop within the distance they can see. A fundamental safety rule for piste skiing. Unless you are doing a jump and have a spotter below to warn you.
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That was exactly what I was trying to say. We furiously agree!
| stoat of the dead wrote: |
| Only place I would stop to plan is in trees or something very narrow, even then I think I do better when I don't consciously think, and react instead. |
We're all different. What works mentally for one doesn't work for another. Your approach sounds like it's more fun, though.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Piccadilly wrote: |
I actually don't mind short bits of steep, because I know there wouldn't be far to fall. The steeps which scare me are the LONG ones where you think "If I go, I'm going a long way.....!".
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Have you ever been taught self arrest, and been made to practice it? Perhaps that would help. If you know you can probably stop yourself if you fall, it frees you to ski more aggressively.
Of course if it is icy there is more of a problem. I hate ice.
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spyderjon,
"if you think about it you can't catch an edge on steeps as you're either on one edge or the other, never with the ski flat on the snow."
Please excuse my lack of understanding but what about the transition from one side to the other? Isn't that where an edge gets caught?
Thanks
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Like the OP, I'm developing a fear of exposure as I get older. Mostly when I take the skis off to start bootpacking. I feel like I've gone from greyhound to labrador and the drop below suddenly starts pulling me in. All I can imagine is the consequences of a fall. It never used to be like that.
Deep breathing, praying and simultaneously summoning the worst obscenities I can think of all helps but not entirely. I'd love to be able to translate that rising panic into a nice bit of relaxed but intense concern.
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I believe that a pole plant is an essential tool one needs to have before one can ski steep terrain and moguls successfully; it times the turn, the radius, and direction and if you do not possess the ability to plant perhaps you have missed out a stage in the learning curve and need to go back to learn this skill. Once engaged with a plant complete the turn, the ski almost going back up the hill to maintain control of speed in short radius and if it's that steep learn to jump off the inside ski to initiate. I like so many skiers fall in to the trap of not “getting on it” until I realise why my day is just average, so attack the slope, maximum energy, to use Joubert's phrase "race the mountain" skiing is not a spectator sport.
If off-piste think “scraping” skidding and slipping, see Phil Smith’s blog "Blowing Myths on Speed Control" one for the BASI 4s to enjoy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ice: if skiing an icy piste, look for the piles of snow that have been formed by others skiers skidding it off, aim to turn and slow only on these piles of snow, this gives you a direction mode and you will find the little piles of snow turn your nightmare into pleasure. Ref. Sally Chapman for giving me this tip many years ago.
If it is absolute bottle ice adopt a skill I learnt from a skier in front of me in the twilight in Meribel long ago. A double pole plant; plant both poles at once and lift the skis into the new direction, he was using canter pace and it only works at this I’ve found.
If using a razor sharp race carver ignore all of above and do your thing
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Big Paua, I also feel vulnerable on steep places when I take my skis off. Walking on snow (or, worse, rocks) I am suddenly a wuss.
Cynic, yes, I always turn on the piles other people have scraped off the ice. Jumping off the uphill ski, though useful for real off-piste steeps, is hardly what the OP needs!
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FAQ
