 Poster: A snowHead
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Colin B, They've got a typo in Craig's listing 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Certainly not worth the £165 for an hours private lesson for 2 that is charged at Hemel.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Megamum, Spell checker problem probably unless Val Thrones is a freudian slip 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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So jjc and jjc james, is this how you view most of the lessons delivered in the UK?
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I'm simply saying that the level of lessons on average relates to the amount of ski pedagogy and instructor has studied.
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I agree, with Study being the key word.
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Megamum,
No there is no specific website but you could read the outcomes on basi's website for each level and decide from there if you like.
Quick Guide would be:
L1 = Anything indoor
L2 = Beginner
L3 = Beginner and Intermediate
L4 = Anything |
However, study, CPD & ongoing training does not have to automatically equal extra 'Levels' should an Instructor so choose.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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This is an informative thread - by the end of page one I'd actually found out what I wanted to understand - that's not bad going for SH's - it's a pity it's in BZK because some folks don't look here and I think it's interesting to find out the different instructor levels.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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slikedges, In the case i described.......Yes, less than.......I can not say that would always be the case so i will not generalise.
I simply view it as,
More pedagogy + proven technical ability + proven teaching and communication skill= More value (most of the time)
As i put earlier a level 1,2,3, or 4 could be the best instructor in the world. The qualification just shows they have proven they can work at a certain level. If a level 1,2,or 3 is the best instructor in the world they will probably be a level 4 soon enough.
There are level 2 instructors I know who I would have no problem recommending, but i respect the fact that there are rules and regulations around where and what they can teach. Qualifications exist in most professions after all.
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To go from L2 to ISIA, one would need to pass:
ISIA Teaching Course
ISIA Technical Course
Level 3 Mountain Safety Course
Alpine Development Coach Level 1
Alpine Development Coach Level 2
Second discipline Level 1 Course
Common Theory Course
Second language assessment
Show evidence of:
200 hours teaching experience
35 hours of teaching experience in second discipline
To go from ISIA to ISTD, one would need to pass:
ISTD Teaching Course
ISTD Technical Course
Euro Mountain Safety Training and Assessment (can be done separately from Training Course)
Eurotest
Show evidence of:
A further 200 hours teaching
6 days ski touring experience
And also:
Have an interview
Submit a 3000-4000 word "project"
However as Megamum posted, the Summit summary is clear and succinct
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The 3 P's used to be Preparation, Preparation, Preparation but from now on they are Pedagogy, Pedagogy, Pedagogy. Fact.
Megamum,
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This is an informative thread - by the end of page one I'd actually found out what I wanted to understand - that's not bad going for SH's - it's a pity it's in BZK because some folks don't look here and I think it's interesting to find out the different instructor levels.
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was actively trying not answer that questions, was a bit apprehensive of wether people would agree. So far so good.
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slikedges,
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£165 for an hours private lesson for 2 that is charged at Hemel.
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So do you feel a lesson in a UK dome or dry slope on average is worth only 1/10th of the value of a lesson from an instructor you advise?
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Hmmm 50+ euros to have me private for 2 persons in valmeinier.
My qualifications:
ISTD Alpine
ISIA Telemark
Level 3 Alpine Race Coach (National Team Level)
Level 1 Snowboard
Adaptive 2nd Discipline
Apc 1 Performance coach
Diploma Anatomy + Physiology
I think snow domes are shockingly over priced for what they offer but their overheads demand this for them to have a chance at making a profit. I have said this before but it not the level of qualification that decides who gets taught by who. It is a financial decision.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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[/quote]
As i put earlier a level 1,2,3, or 4 could be the best instructor in the world. The qualification just shows they have proven they can work at a certain level. If a level 1,2,or 3 is the best instructor in the world they will probably be a level 4 soon enough.
There are level 2 instructors I know who I would have no problem recommending, but i respect the fact that there are rules and regulations around where and what they can teach. Qualifications exist in most professions after all.[/quote]
This makes complete sense to me. I've seen it going through the exams. During my level 3 teach the one person who failed has done the most teaching but had no technical understanding or analysis skills and therefore feedback was non existent or irrelevant. Also on the exam was someone who I know had done maybe 70hours and was simply one of the best there at teaching! So these are 2's aspiring to be 3's and some of the differences in knowledge understanding and the lesson delivery was huge!
The other interesting thing on the 3 is that just 2 of us from the 8 were confident with teaching the whole central theme to the required standard. This is based on the assumption we could have been teaching potential BASI 1/2 candidates so you have to prepare them correctly for the exam or they could easily fail on CT.
The course in general really showed some big differences in teaching capability. It was reassuring for me with the gap between 2 and 3 to find I was still teaching it all correctly. Everyone on the course generally showed their best teaching at the level (or towards it at least), so more technical stuff as the majority of people have had lots of training and use the drills and experiences from this in their lessons.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
^ Why would you expect a lower instructor to pass on bad habits? If they do, there must be some problem with the system that passed them...
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Well then a lot of systems have a problem... because I've seen plenty of instructors passing on their bad habits... why? because the student does exactly what the instructor does...
If you watch a top level instructor training first level ones it is very obvious who is who. This is despite the fact they are doing snowplow/stem christie turns...
The lower level instructor may be adequate to perform the task but that does not make him the best at it
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The question isn't and never has been "is a higher qualified instructor on average better than a lower qualified one?" Of course he bloomin' well ought to be.
The question with any occupation is what level of performance is good enough? If the certified level is set too low the quality is too low. If the certified level is set too high the number who pass is too low, distorting the market. If the latter is in the public interest due for instance to reasons of individual or social safety, then government must set minimum professional standards to strike a balance between an acceptable level of skills and the supply of those skills. All qualifying people can then freely practice their trade. If qualifying people choose to exceed this minimum level it is up to them to somehow realise the benefit of their extra skills or qualifications.
For ski instructing obviously the public interest issues are not of the same order as for some more formal and established professions, and while there are some such issues, it's more about setting a level that is adequate to provide an acceptable service to the bulk of the market. Setting a level that is incrementally higher than this ("the best") simply incrementally constrains the supply of instructors, which is not to the benefit of the market but to the benefit of the artificially made scarce resource! So it isn't about how much better an instructor (or skier - bearing in mind that the challenging bits of the ISTD are more about skiing performance than pedagogy) an ISTD is, but about whether ISIA is good enough to acceptably service most of the market. Imho it's a pretty high level and easily adequate, but I'll admit I do not know the exact demographic of who of what level takes lessons and from whom.
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You know it makes sense.
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| jjc james wrote: |
Hmmm 50+ euros to have me private for 2 persons in valmeinier.
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I can't but agree that to my mind your rate is very reasonable.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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All fair points, france has enough people wanting to work that it can say only those that reach the top level with 5 yrs can work (near enough). Other areas don't and operate other systems.
The truth is that all level 2+ can work anywhere as long as they can get the TT or ET so if a customer wants a particular level they'll have to ask for it.
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FAQ
