 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm on the fence still as to whether I'd be looking to buy abroad, but the idea is starting to appeal more and more. I'd be able to contibute little with regard French legal requirements, but could help with the constitution of the owning "body". I'd presume that a Company registered in England and Wales could own property in France and it's easy enough to set one up and have a shareholders agreement drawn up to cover the "rules".
Mmmm. Where's the wife?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Mark Hunter, not really looking for a large property at the moment, just an apartment we can use for holidays, and rent to friends/family etc. If we decide to move there, we will no doubt require more space.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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PG, please put me on your list. I'm impressed by Saikee's aproach and enthusiasm. I'm in Belle Plagne on Saturday for the week and will have a look around. However, at the end of the day we are talking about a timeshare, although one where the consortium members have greater than normal control.[/b]
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Marc, I'm not a lawyer but I've bought and sold properties in France, as I understand it your idea is possible but it leaves the issue of inheritance. I've looked at a number of possibilities over the years, bottom line is, if you own a property in France, it's subject to French law. End of story. They're very touchy about off-shore ownership, it's a no-no. The best advice I can give is to talk to lawyer early on, Stephen Smith is the best one I can recommend. I wish I had dealt with him years ago, he would have saved me thousands. Seriously there are too many horror storys about French lawyers and I'm in the midst of one over the sale of an appartment I own on the Cote d'Azur. The worst mistake you can make is believing that a French notaire will act in your interest.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'd qualify the above and say that a notary is acting on your behalf but not 'for' you. There are good ones and not so good ones. On the whole I've been happy with the advice I've received but their expertise rarely stretches to the possibilities of offshore ownership. It is true that the French tax authorities actively disapprove of offshore ownership. On the other hand the taxman in the UK isn't too keen either. A notary isn't a lawyer per se - he is a public official, and his qualifications are not so extensive. He frequently works for both purchaser and vendor.
As with all professions there a good lawyers and indifferent lawyers. I doubt there is a significant difference between standards in the two countries, but I would advise anyone to ensure that the professional involved - accountant or lawyer - has prior and regular experience of the specialist field in question. If Stephen Smith is such a person, then David@traxvax's advice is sensible.
If you live in France for more than six months each year then I understand you to be wholly subject to French income tax under the double taxation agreement between the two countries. This applies to inheritance tax as well - a minefield.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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The legal side of a multi-ownership of a French property by a UK resident could be a challenge. I therefore think it is prudent to have a large syndicate each spends only a modest amount. The legal bill could significant too. I also in favour of seeking professional advice from lawyers and the advices by the various members here are much appreciated.
Before the subject getting too hot interested members should be aware of such property ownership could force you to ski repeatedly in the same area. Luckily Tarentaise is the biggest among the French skiing resorts and it will take many years to explore Valmorel, les Menuires/Val Thoren, Meribel, Courchevel, La Plagne, Les Arc, La Rosiere/La Thuile, Tignes and Val D'lsere with a published piste distance in excess of 1600km. Assuming one needs a week to ski a resort like Les Arc (200km) then 8 weeks will be needed for 1600km piste. Spending two weeks each year a recreational skier needs 4 years to cover the whole Tarentaise. Since the two ends resorts of Val D'lsere and Valmorel are both about 20miles from Boug St. Maurice. It will be quite relax to live at Boug St. Maurice and choose any resort to ski within Tarentaise.
As far as I am aware in the winter the roads after Val D'lsere and La Thuile are permanently closed. There is a also minor road to Beaufort (leading to a minor resort called Les Saisies) which could be unavailble in some winter months, according to the condition I know from my motorbike trips. Thus Tarentaise must be entered and left through only Abertville.
Day trips out of Tarentaise is possible with Chamonix (only 70miles away from Boug St. Maurice), Megeve, Les Contamines, Les Houghes, Flaine, La Clusaz and other minor resorts within 2 hours drive. Going down south L'Aples D' Huez can be reached in 117 miles (about 2.5 hours I think). I estimate it would take also about 2.5 hours to reach Portes Du Soleil or the Italian Courmayeur.
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PG, David@traxvax, Is that true, a company formed over here can't own property in France?
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Having dual taxation liabilities of my own, I can guarantee that you need to address this issue in your deliberations of this proposal. Most governments are facing fiscal black holes; BE PREPARED FOR CHANGES! Particularly for those of you that ‘appear’ to be able to move their disposable income outside the exchequer’s grasp.
Further, anyone who’s keeping an eye on international affairs should be wary of the real possibility of the USA dropping into a recession (and dragging the rest of us with it) as China’s GDP calls in the ‘markers’ – do your research guys.
Any monies you’re thinking of investing need to be ‘long term’ and dismissed from your near future needs.
Cynical moi?
But seriously, this idea is highly enchanting but be aware that it’s more likely to be income neutral or negative rather than income generation.
Multi owner ‘timeshare’ or a holiday business? You/we/us need to make that fundamental personal choice before this goes much further. Though, with the right property type, both these ideals could be accommodated.
I should elaborate a little, my background is in design and retail interior construction, so between us Saikee and I (and more than likely, some more of you) probably cover many of the ‘bricks and mortar’ issues that define property development. The hardest part will be finding a consensus that fits all our dreams.
But sorry folks, this is NOT the stuff of dreams, it is a personal business decision that requires hard choices and possibly tight sphincter muscles.
Just seen . . . Michael Grade’s been offered the BBC chairman’s job . . . we’re all doomed! And so’s the Archers! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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marc gledhill, A company in the UK can own property in France. However I seem to remember reading that there may be some (French) tax implications if you are resident in France and your property is owned by a company based in a offshore tax haven, such as Jersey. I'm not sure whether this would also apply if the property-owning company in question is wholly UK owned, ie by a company registered in England and Wales. Time to consult the experts!
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Should be OK in the Isle of Man. Send all cheques to "Michael B retirement fund". I'll look after the rest 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| PG wrote: |
| marc gledhill, A company in the UK can own property in France. However I seem to remember reading that there may be some (French) tax implications if you are resident in France and your property is owned by a company based in a offshore tax haven, such as Jersey. I'm not sure whether this would also apply if the property-owning company in question is wholly UK owned, ie by a company registered in England and Wales. Time to consult the experts! |
I think it's not disimilar to the UK, any arrangement made purely to avoid tax can be disregarded by the tax authority (unless it's the Inland Revenue selling its buildings to an offshore company obviously).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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