 Poster: A snowHead
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Nick Zotov, you been at the sauce again ?? ani-rep....... godd ....... membersip. 
[Edit] - ignore this - Nick's typos have been fixed[/Edit]
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 25-04-05 9:39; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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kuwait_ian, Well, Masque did bring litre bottles of Grolsh to the virtual BBQ 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
The Ski Club of Great Britain pressurises business into giving discounts to its members.
The Ski Club of Great Britain itself gives NO discounts that it doesn't get by screwing other businesses. (I know this to be the case because of my involvement in the retail side of the ski industry for several years)
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If you're implying that my club - declared to be a non-profit company - is trying to convert other companies to 'non-profit' status then there's an opportunity for a joke or three.
Actually I think this is poppycock.
Retailers (like any other businesses) only take decisions to maximise their profits - that's the economists' definition of capitalism. If a retailer agrees 'X% off to members of X' it is calculating that the added turnover is worth more in profit than possibly declining the business at all.
What the Club actually does is a vast amount of promotional work for external ski businesses, in the form of advertorial and promotions (which I'd argue is not our remit).
How does that promotional activity square with your accusation of "screwing other businesses"? Do you mean "making love with other businesses"?
Independence (the word means something) is maintained by strong membership growth and high membership revenues, should independence be a paramount objective. It was certainly a principal founding objective of the Ski Club of Great Britain in 1903.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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David Goldsmith, what I was referring to is a simple commercial model, but with a twist. (since the Ski Club is, according to some, NOT a commercial enterprise)
The Ski Club of Great Britain would contact shops and advise them that they would be removed from a list of ski shops unless they agreed to give Ski Club members 15-20% discount off all goods.
To refuse, you are possibly losing out to your competitors.
To accept, you will be selling some goods at a loss. (bigger shops/chains have better buying power and can absorb this kind of thing easier)
So, yes, it is endeavouring to create more "non-profit" companies, except these other companies are called "independent ski shops", and do not claim to be anything else.
As for someone else's comments about it being a "Private Members Club", if it is such, then it cannot represent skiers in the United Kingdom, since it is not prepared to talk or listen to the vast majority of them.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| ....... then it cannot represent skiers in the United Kingdom..... |
I don't think it says it does, these days.
The ski club membership is small proportion of Britain's skiers. OTOH, the average ski club member probably spends more than the average British skier. So its your commercial decsion in a tough market. For running any independent shop in British retail is a tough act, and I wish you luck. In skiing terms, it can be done. For example. a very few shops have developed a niche reputation for providing excellent boot fitting service. If I decide to go ski touring again, I shall go to one for touring boots. BTW, I learned about that shop first from the club.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
BTW, I learned about that shop first from the club.
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I think there's a meeting of minds between all of us here. The Club's role in researching ski shops, or any other service providers, is a vital membership service.
If Fox's assertion is true - that a retailer was omitted from listing because it wouldn't agree a deal - then members were denied information about the existence of that shop.
That, I'd agree, is wrong.
Essentially, Nick, what you're saying is the crucial thing. The Club performs its role as an independent information provider by listing all shops, and highlighting those which provide specialised services.
The up-to-date version, though, is what goes on here. Somebody wants a specialised ski boot service in or around Rutland (for example). They pitch the question here. They get an answer within minutes.
In the months up to February 2004 the Ski Club wisely hosted a bulletin board of that sort, at virtually no cost, gathering the widest possible community of 'advisers'. Now it's gone.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 25-04-05 10:17; edited 1 time in total
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Well, I did say that I thought snowheads was developing into more than just a forum. I do wish that I was at the EOSB - it must be great fun - and is perhaps a forerunner of things to come.
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David Goldsmith, I’m with the club on this one, unless the list is purported to be a comprehensive one of retailers.
The levels of return or discount cost to the shop is within its remit to accept, negotiate or dismiss.
This practice is normal for all ‘non-profit’ social organizations.
Where it gets murky is if and when the club sets up in competition to other retailers. Is the club membership subsidizing its business overheads?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
| We have set up partnerships with carefully selected online shops. Members and non-members can shop here, but Ski Club members are entitled to amazing discounts. |
from the SC web site. Under that section there are only 2 suppliers. The Classified section is similarly thin on content. 4 UK retailers. Just where are all these carefully selected (in their words) or researched ski shops (in David's)? The selection criteria seem to be very strict. Or many retailers refused to go along with the pressure selling. Or maybe I missed something, or it's become another MO thing ..... but they did say non-members could shop.
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kuwait_ian, In practice, there are numerous discounts available to members.
Masque, I don't think the Club in any way pretends that is offering a comprehensive list of retailers. As for whether the club is competing unfairly with its own shop, judge for yourself, after looking here.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Now here's another one to get you scratching your heads, last year my local dry slope was not on the ski club list as a place to give discounts and yet they still did so on production of a valid scgb card, this year they're back on the list, but the real question is how many other places think they should be giving club members discounts in return for being on the list but aren't actually identified to members because of I gues a failure of the administration ?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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D G Orf, dunno, but I think some outfits think it's a good idea to an agree a discount if asked after with a club card.
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D G Orf, I suspect that when asked, some retailers would provide a discount on any basis, if they felt that granting one would secure the business.
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You know it makes sense.
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Sorry chaps perhaps I miss phrased that last post, as far as the dry slope was concerned they had informed the SCGB that they would be continuing to offer the discount to all SCGB members, the SCGB however failed to list them in their handbook under dry slopes
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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D G Orf, gotcha. Looks like a goof.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Came the dawn - - - - all these carefully selected establishments are in a member's handbook - not on the web site. I apologise for moaning about the small numbers above. But the site should at least give an indication of the numbers giving discounts, or a listing if they don't want to give active links. To a non-member, it gives no incentive to join in its present format since you can't see what you'll be getting. The web site appears to be an end unto itself.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 25-04-05 13:46; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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kuwait_ian, as far as I remember, if a shop wanted to be listed on the site, that was at an additional charge.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Wear The Fox Hat, That sort of sums up the argument. Today, income is the root of the club's policies and that makes it a commercial organisation.
This seems to be far removed from the original founding ethic but that’s not to be unexpected, our sport, our economies, and our attitudes to what’s acceptable practice, change over time.
What I find offensive is the concept that some members still cling to the idea that the SCGB is a cosy altruistic social organisation.
It’s not, it’s a business that takes advantage of its legal protection as a ‘club’ to leverage as much income and authority as it can from the skiing community. I find nothing wrong in this other than the hypocrisy of pretending otherwise.
I’ve made my decision not to join based on
1) economic value . . . I’m willing to do my own research to find the best value product or service for me . . . getting easier week by week.
2) The members I’ve interacted with. . .
It’s a rule of marketing that one negative reaction takes ten positive responses just to nullify. I’ve corresponded here with many members who care greatly about the club and who are witty entertaining contributors. But they are yet to offset the negative emotions generated by the blatant troll behaviour of a certain few, both here and in person.
(I make no excuses for my intemperate responses to them . . . and as ever, my apologies to the moderators)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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What would happen to the Club (being a non-profit organisation) if they had a bad year and went seriously into the red - not that this would happen? Would the members be called in to bale them out or would this fall into the hands of the directors?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Sherlock Chalets, members liability is limited to £1. I think the directors are covered by insurance, if they can show they were not negligent. My guess is, though, that the club could raise cash against its property assets in an emergency. Any not-for-profit organization has the neat trick of pulling off a modest operating profit each year, yet not risk going into the red. To be fair, the club seems to be good at pulling that off.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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My dear Chalets, Not quite as hypothetical as you might think. Mail order is one line of trade and this obviously demands saleable merchandise.
There was a famous season when the Club went crazy on navy blue ski jackets with cut-off arms, with the chest proudly bearing the Club logo. Hands up those who bought one! Then there was the 'Alpine Bistro' in the old Eaton Square clubhouse. Didn't quite establish itself as Belgravia's hottest lunchspot, though the then club president was a staunch supporter.
The K.I.S.S. formula has a lot to be said for it. Keep it simple. Deliver full value against subscription income. Don't risk the members' money on risky ventures or services that few will ever benefit from. The acid test is winning membership renewals. An avoidable lost member is a big mistake.
snowHeads (and, of course, the Club's former open web forum) re-establish how a simple, virtually free, exercise in communications can deliver so much to so many. If the Club offered this service again, what would it be worth to people, per annum? £20? £30? £40?
Yet it's probably deliverable for 50p to £1 per paying member (there are over 17,000, after all). That's 1% to 2% of the current subscription rate of around £50.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 25-04-05 16:25; edited 1 time in total
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Nick Zotov, said
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I do wish that I was at the EOSB - it must be great fun - and is perhaps a forerunner of things to come.
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Yep me too.
Any one fancy a beer at the Southampton Ski Show say 2pm on the Sunday, in the bar or on the terrace if sunny?
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| ..snowHeads (and, of course, the Club's former open web forum) re-establish how a simple, virtually free, exercise in communications can deliver so much to so many..... |
I don't think admin would agree that it's free.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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On the above budgeting one comes to a £8500 to £17000 annual budget, but I'm pulling figures out of the air. 'Virtually free' in terms of pure computer share costs, I imagine.
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boredsurfin, love to but I think that last year was the last southern ski show ever, unless you know otherwise ?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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D G Orf,
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last year was the last southern ski show ever, unless you know otherwise ?
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No I didnt know that ! What is the reason? I couldn't attend last year (first time I have missed the show for many years) but the year before seemed busy enough.
Will the yellow brick road on ski's ever be seen again?? 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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boredsurfin, I don't know for sure but I think it's because of the relativly small size of the show compared to the Northern and London shows which were run by the same people, I too will be sad as I've been going for about 15 years or so
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FAQ
