 Poster: A snowHead
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parlor, makes sense. I'm ideally looking for a boot that sacrifices as little as possible from the flex 120~ alpine experience - I'm at best (assuming my fitness campaign keeps up) going to be like 200lbs, and can imagine going to flex150~ rather than down a stifness if I get into racing more. The CSIA4's I know are all in flex150s and are probably half my size, so I'm assuming style is a big factor. Not too worried about crampons/long tours though - day tours are about the most I'll be doing, where I'm (still) assuming that Dukes/Alpines might just get irritating. Lots of guesswork as the season ends and I'm missing skiing enough to plan next winter out already really...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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DaveC, if you are not worried about tech inserts (you should be, a touring boot without the ability to get the best touring binding sucks) then the Quest Pro 12 would have been the stiffest option for you. Alternatives are Shogun or Radium, Titan, Factor or Skookum.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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parlor, yeah, I don't see the point in the expense and mess about of making another boot fit my irritating feet without dynafit compatability.
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parlor, Just got off the phone with the Salomon tech guy, Unfortunately the touring pads (all with the inserts) are not compatible with regular alpine bindings, apparently there was ment to be a warning on the box and the boots when they were sold!
Also If anyone has the quest boots Salomon are doing a total re-call on them. If you have them send them back to your local salomon dealer! (no rush if your not using Low Tech bindings but will be worth sending them back eventually to get new sole pads 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| dansmith wrote: |
| parlor, Just got off the phone with the Salomon tech guy, Unfortunately the touring pads (all with the inserts) are not compatible with regular alpine bindings, apparently there was ment to be a warning on the box and the boots when they were sold! |
salomon really hit it out of the park with this one 
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parlor, At a risk of trolling here dude; are you saying that the Soles option on the Quest are 1) TLT/Alpine and 2) Vibram Rando???
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dansmith, Volia, so we have a Dynafit/BD comparable boot. Doesn't make any sense to run the TLT insert in an Alpine sole, you lose 3mm and there is a likely hood that this would be enough for the inserts to pop out. 
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parlor, Given your prognosis, forget the Virus range, all the points you have made are problems with this boot, really you need a Polyether boot with Dynafit inserts, a proper overlap and a high coller, now where are you going to find that????? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| parlor, At a risk of trolling here dude; are you saying that the Soles option on the Quest are 1) TLT/Alpine and 2) Vibram Rando??? |
I was. According to what I have seen and what I was told. Dansmith might have just proven me wrong though. FWIW I was interested in this when she first got the boots, they have included the AFD 'glide' pad under the toe - why the hell would you have a very smooth section of plastic on the toe of all places if it wasn't meant to grease the AFD system, a la any DIN sole????? So I set the boots up in some S900s and they worked beautifully, 'wafer thing' gap and everything. I just went with what I was told by the guy who sold them to us - not just any boot fitter, this guy had 5 or the 14 pairs in North America so yeah, I figured, he would know.
Delighted to hear that all along it was no good. As it goes the missus only has one pair of skis, with Dynafits but non-the-less, this is not what we were sold. 
Thanks & sorry Dan.
I'll be checking out the Virus next year, but yes, that's what I want. A touring boot I can ski in.
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parlor, The Virus is circa 1600g vs Quest/Titan/Factor over 2000g. Nice and light for touring but I doubt it will give you what you want for downhill. I am a 27.5 in Nordica Speedmachine 14. I had a Virus in 27 buckled up to the max in the shop and could pull my foot out and there were no adjustments to move the buckles. I tried Factor, Quest, Titan and Virus. I thought the Quest flexed nicely (but was really high volume), the Factor was the best fit for my narrow heel, wide forefoot (but I was put off by SZK about durability and walk mode), the Titan felt the stiffest but is relatively low cuff and didn't really fit me (short and narrow forefoot). The cuff on the Quest might be higher than the Titan hence the more Alpine flex feel. I really wasn't sure but finally went for the Titan and had a fait bot of work done on it to get it to fit. I'm now really happy with it (did PdG with no blisters and toenails intact!) and would recommend if you have access to a boot fitter who can stretch it for your fit.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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No worries parlor, to be honest I was hoping you were right cos it would be alot easier to sell the boot but what can ya do! personally I think its a good fitting boot and skis well! Personally also have faith that Salomon will put this right! I guess the reason why the inserts are weak cos the heal pads are changeable while most other boots with these inserts aren't (I'm pretty sure anyway but haven't had that much experience when it comes to touring gear) SMALLZOOKEEPER, will more idea than me!
Also had a look at the Garmont endorphin before I left work and it has the afd plastic in the sole!
Was told when with some of the guys from salomon in andermatt that you can use the touring soles with manual height adjustment bindings (salomon drivers etc) I don't think this has been tested fully but could be a sneaky way around the not changing soles! SMALLZOOKEEPER,
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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dansmith, Totally.
parlor, Garmont Shogun TLT dude, " The best a man can geeeeeeeeeet."
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, I saw Arnoa when he came to ski in BC. I like them. Hopefully they'll do them in a different colour this year. Hahahaaaa.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Arno wrote: |
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.aspx?intStoryID=7621#datesandvenues
hope no-one is planning to go to this  |
if you wanted a talk on mountain safety and the likes why not.......
and if you are going to tell me the your reason is that the guy giving the talks was involved in the design of the boot then get your facts straight, Nigel was involved in the development but he did not have any say in what plastic they injected into the mold around the low tech insert, that area is purely manufacture.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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CEM, well I guess you couldn't really expect Salomon to abandon their whole backcountry strategy but the whole episode leaves a very bitter taste. AIUI Salomon have lawyered up and are still blaming the lack of a standard for producing something so clearly inadequate
no issues with Nigel Shepard but would be interesting to know whether he used the tech inserts much or was touring with Fritschis or similar
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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TBH i am not sure what set up he is using with the boot
crazy thing is when we were shown the quest it was never really sold to us as a touring boot, more a back country hike and ride, for the guy who wants to hike up 20-30 mins to get a better line than from the top of the lift.... if this was the case then low tech inserts would not really be on the top of my list of must haves
i think the series of talks will be very interesting and well presented having seen Nigel's work in the past
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| CEM wrote: |
| if you wanted a talk on mountain safety and the likes why not....... |
Because of this:
| CEM wrote: |
| crazy thing is when we were shown the quest it was never really sold to us as a touring boot, more a back country hike and ride, for the guy who wants to hike up 20-30 mins to get a better line than from the top of the lift.... if this was the case then low tech inserts would not really be on the top of my list of must haves |
Which seems to be the way that Salomon were thinking when some smart a$$ decided that what the boot needs is low tech compatibility and then had a Blue Peter moment that has permanently ruined one guys life (not just his skiing). That was one guy in 14, according to Salomon. Which means Salomon totally got away with making a beyond terrible product and are carrying on as normal. If was you knee they ruined, or your buddys, would you still support Salomon?
Look at the millions Toyota are spending making sure everyone knows that they care about safety. Toyota have millions of cars on the road, how many actually failed? Very few? How many actual injuries / deaths? Very few? Salomon make "14" pairs of boots - two big failures - one resulting in the above knee but it's OK for Salomon to carry on as normal???
I'm pretty sure my comments above indicate that I was really keen on this boot and wanted it to work out. Salomon needs to man up and compensate Dalton. I know that a boycott isn't going to work but the more people that know Salomon SUCK the more likely Salomon are to do something about it.
It's ONE guy and ONE knee. Make it right Salomon. [/soap box]
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Pretty much same thoughts as Parlor. Salomon have a lot to make up for.
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parlor, DaveC, stop for a minute and listen to yourselves... what has happened has happened, nobody planned it, no body wanted it to do so but it has
sure their legal dept will do the right thing in the end, your whinging on a web site ain't going to change the outcome, but if it makes you feel good then whatever!!!
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CEM, True mate but then you did try and defend the product, process and put some points up for consideration.
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CEM, the point that nobody planned it in a big company that really should plan things is a bit of an issue for me. It's not like the boot combusted and no-one could of forseen it, they released something totally unsafe for purpose to cash in on backcountry skiers. Saying that it "wasn't sold to you as a touring boot" is like saying that "i've made this exploding microwave, it's only made to make the kitchen look pretty, bet they didn't expect it to blow anyone up". From the reporting, it wasn't the plastic but the design of the patent ripoff tech insert that was far too flimsy. Pretty sure the design team have a stake in the design process.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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CEM, actually I am listening to myself, I wish Salomon would too. It's taken me a long time to be this angry. The Quests belong to my fiancee, if this was her knee in the picture above I would probably be on bail after destroying every Salomon sign / advert / representative I could find. I was really pro this boot, even after the recall I was upbeat and trying not to 'flush the baby out with the bathwater'. Salomons response has been pathetic. They have one guy that they need to look, do that that and they could probably give the whole scandal a positive spin - "We've screwed up, fortunately it was only one guy who the failure had any impact on, so we've looked after everything he could ever need. We're busy correcting the issue, we've fired a dude from the PR department and life is back to normal... We're skier ourselves, we hurt a skier, we've looked after said skier. Buy Salomon you can trust us."
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In the next couple of days I'll be writing to the chief executive of the Ski Club of Great Britain (to which I pay an annual subscription of £56) asking what on earth the Club is doing, associating itself with - and actively promoting - a product which has clearly not been adequately tested for safety.
The purpose of the Club (among others), since 1903, has been to independently and impartially test and advise on new ski equipment. In that regard, Nigel Shepherd is certainly in the same boat (though he is significantly younger). Snow+Rock (younger still) pride themselves on advising consumers on the options before recommending one specific brand and model, so I don't understand why they are hosting talks which headline a specific product. If the purpose of these talks is to advise people on ski touring, day touring, and any application of skis for climbing then one of the first things the audience will be interested in is what choices of kit are available.
The Salomon Quest was recalled a few months ago, after the catastrophic accident above. One assumed - at this point - that we'd see no more of the product until at least one winter's safety testing had been undertaken, before re-introducing it to the market.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Lockwoods are also selling the Quest and 'tour sole pads'
To be fair, Lockwoods do say:
| Quote: |
Salomon - Quest Tour Sole Pads
Product Information
Replacement Tour sole pads for Salomon Quest boots. These pads conform to the Touring sole DIN norms due to be introduced in 2011.
* NOT compatible with Dynafitt style 'low tech' bindings |
But from the photo it looks to me as though the fittings (in the Quest Tour Sole Pads) for Low_Tech are still there.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Mon 30-08-10 11:46; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The TGR thread on the Salomon Quest remains live:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191256&highlight=Quest+tech
It's reached page 22:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191256&highlight=Quest+tech&page=22
Thin Cover (the victim, whose experience with the Quest boots triggered the scandal) says on page 18:
| Quote: |
| ^^^^^ mentally holding up pretty well, definitely fustrating as hell to be on crutches for so long, another 2 months at least they said. Physically, the pain vacillates from unbearable to just an annoyance. The leg at this point will not bend at all, its like there is massive padlock on my joint. Knee looks like a watermelon. They say done with surgeries for now. And just started PT this past week. It seems the surgeons and PT all concur that this is the worst they have seen, so as I have said before, I can only go up from here. Doing pt myself everyday as well, to the point where I literally sweat from the pain. But determined to make at least one turn this season, even though I am told not a chance in hell. |
Salomon respond, further down the page:
| Quote: |
Hey guys,
So we have a couple of updates regarding the Salomon Quest Pro Bebax, Quest Pro and Quest touring pads. Since there is an ongoing case with Dalton, we can't comment about the situation or outcome for legal reasons, but can give updates regarding the product.
Since the accident, we have been doing a great deal of investigating and tests to try new alternative solutions and new pad designs. Thus far, with no existing norm, we are not able to provide a 100% reliable solution for our boots/soles for low-tech style bindings. At this point, we will not be releasing any low-tech touring boots/soles this fall. The rest of the Quest boots, which passed norms, will still be available. If you have any questions, feel free to give me a call, Nick at 801-624-7581 for any additional questions.
Thanks for all of your patience guys,
Nick |
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David E Goldsmith, go David! From what I understand the boot is to be sold this year with two 'soles' a vibram (style) touring sole - compatible with AT bindings that do not include low tech bindings - and a DIN / ISO sole. IMO the Quests, sans low tech inserts, have now been tested to a certain degree. It was a shame that Salomon conducted the testing of the low tech inserts on real skiers, in life threatening situations.
When I write that it makes me so angry. I can think of three or four time last winter that my SO could have met her maker if the boots had failed at any moment. It's truly unacceptable.
As an interesting side note I noticed last night a Black Diamond advert for a new boot where the copy on the advert focuses on how much testing the boot has been put through. I'll try to post it up later...
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You know it makes sense.
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parlor, I agree that a risk of death or very serious impact injury existed. Any equipment used in high-octane back-country skiing has to be near-enough 100% dependable.
No reasonable person has any urge to do Salomon down. Back in the 1980s I repeatedly reviewed their boots (particularly the SX91/92 series) very positively, both in a specialised ski magazine and the Sunday Times etc. Their bindings improved enormously in design and safety at that time. Salomon boots went through 10 years of intense R&D from the mid-1970s to mid-1980s, under the rule of Georges Salomon. They were ingenious consumer-friendly products that performed very well.
Back in April, when the news emerged about the scale of the injuries to Thin Cover, and the piece of junk that appears to have caused his injuries ...
Original blog by WildSnow: http://www.wildsnow.com/2852/salomon-tech-fittings-failure/
Subsequent investigation by WildSnow: http://www.wildsnow.com/2888/salomon-quest-tech-fittings-failure/
... it seemed certain that Salomon would seriously review the product line, put it through the most rigorous testing and quality control, and keep a relatively low profile, before making a big noise.
For a prominent independent retailer, an eminent ski-touring expert, and Britain's national ski club to devote a roadshow specifically to the Salomon Quest seems unbelievable in the circumstances.
When all's done and dusted, the vast majority of consumers buy their own kit, and pay a great deal for it. Their safety and performance needs have to be paramount. The ski trade isn't just some sort of promotional 'smoke and mirrors' game.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| CEM wrote: |
your whinging on a web site ain't going to change the outcome
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Probably not from Salomon's perspective, but there's a reasonable chance it'll make anyone doing an internet search for "Salomon Quest" ski boot think twice about the boots they were thinking of buying. Which seems like the right place for people to end up...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| parlor wrote: |
| As an interesting side note I noticed last night a Black Diamond advert for a new boot where the copy on the advert focuses on how much testing the boot has been put through. I'll try to post it up later... |
Here.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Looks like the machine which tests Ikea typing chairs etc. I like that.
It would be good to see these robots in the bumps and parks etc.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| David E Goldsmith wrote: |
Looks like the machine which tests Ikea typing chairs etc. I like that.
It would be good to see these robots in the bumps and parks etc. |
Post up your letter when you write to SCGB David!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Plenty of better alternatives out there.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Salomon Quest 8 Review.
This is a first look review of the Salomon Quest 8 boot, based on 1 hour skiing at an indoor snowdome.
My feet: 26.4 cm long. 98mm wide at the widest point. Narrow heels. Medium to low volume feet, but I use a 12mm heel wedge under my insoles due to an ankle injury, so this effectively increases the volume of my feet to medium/large.
My ability level. Off piste beginner. Can ski off piste, can sometimes link turns, but often ski a short traverse between turns on steeper offpiste. I suspect that I am pretty typical of the boots target audience.
Shell Fit. I wore a pair of 25/25.5 shells. This gave me a 14mm heel gap. These boots were originally recommended to me by a Chamonix boot fitter because of their roomy toe box (I have knackered toes as well as a knackered ankle).
Inner fit. The inners didn’t fit my heels, and only the tongue can be thermoformed, so I used an old pair of Atomic liners (aftermarket Intuition or Palau liners would be an alternative).
Fit with the Atomic liners was superb from a performance point of view, but it was definitely not a comfort fit for me in this shell size (feels a bit narrow, time will tell if the shells need a punch).
Review
As well as being disappointed with the stock liners, I was also unimpressed with the power strap. It seems a little big, and I suspect that Salomon save money by using the same power strap on their 25 size shells as on their largest sizes. I’ve drilled out the power strap rivets, and I will be replacing the power strap with a Booster Strap.
The boots feature a walk mode, which would make them eminently suitable as a ski touring boot (optional ski touring soles are available for £40) but none tourers will also appreciate the walk mode, as it makes walking around the resort much easier.
In use I found the boots slightly softer than expected fore and aft (Salomon claim a 90 flex) but the boots seemed superbly rigid laterally. If I believed marketing hype I would put this down to the “Magnesium Backbone”. Despite not having skied for a few months, I was able to make turns in both directions while skiing on my right leg only. This drill was a semi-subjective test of the boot's edging ability, and they passed with flying colours.
The boots felt slightly more upright than I was used to, this is not a criticism, although it is certainly something to be aware of as I guess some people might not like it.
Given the walk mode and impressive lateral rigidity, the boots would seem to offer a lot for the relatively modest £250 price tag, although it is worth remembering that an aftermarket liner and booster strap would add £125 to the price.
These boots are the little brother of the stiffer Salomon Quest 12 that was released last year. Originally the Quest boot range was intended to be compatible with all types of bindings, including “Low Tech” bindings. A failure of Salomon’s own brand “Low Tech” compatible fittings on a Quest 12 boot left a customer with serious injuries, and Salomon have now dropped the “Low Tech” compatible fittings from the Quest range. Users of the American TGR internet forum are presently mounting a campaign to boycott Quest boots as a result of this incident. Consumers will have to make up their own mind about this, but my suggestion would be that consumers with a conscience might like to make a donation to the fund that has been set up to help the injured skier while he waits for Salomon’s insurance company to pay out (See http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202519).
Would I recommend them? Well if you budget for a booster strap, an aftermarket liner and a donation to an injured skier, then these boots are still cheaper than a comparable boot such as the Black Diamond Method, so if they fit, they could be an economical choice.
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FAQ
