 Poster: A snowHead
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Know they are now off your shortlist but I really like my Redeemers for real soft snow and have been pleased with their versatility. In fact wish I'd actually taken them out more on "inappropriate" days or for bumps lessons to really explore their limits of use. I'd really like to try a 105-110ish ski with similar profile to see if it was the ultimate "do it all" - maybe the Wailers are it?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'd be uber tempted by the Night Trains for a resort ski, think I'm selling my 196 Lhasas for some 191s + dukes next year.
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brian
brian
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I'm somewhat in horizon's boat so reading with interest. Anybody got thoughts/experience of the voelkl katana?
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Shortlist down to two: ON3P Wrenegade in 191 and DPS 112 RP in 190. Based on reviews, ON3P probably harder-charging, better on difficult snow and slightly closer to what I'm used to, DPS better in pow and trees, lighter and c. $100 more.
Arrrgh, I want both!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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horizon, DPS then I can buy them off you in a year or so when you decide you really want the Wrenegades 
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sluffs going for decent prices over at telemark-pyrenees, would fit the bill pretty well (decent stiffness, light enough for a tour, maybe not rocker tip exactly but are "early-rise"), or man up and go for their bigger brothers 
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| brian wrote: |
| I'm somewhat in horizon's boat so reading with interest. Anybody got thoughts/experience of the voelkl katana? |
A little bit more of a classic charger than some of the other skis mentioned here. Like the original Mantra but on a nice mix of coke and speed.
Cedric get the new Faction 3.Zeros WITH tip rocker. Dealing with the hassles of buying from the US =/= worth it. Get them in Verbier, Tony will look after you.
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Hey Gavin, can you PM me some contact details for Tony? Happy to speak to the guy...would be great if they had some specs on their new skis up on the website! Would go for the 191 (especially with rocker)...
On the other hand, if I get the DPS 112 or the Wrenegade maybe I can convert you!
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brian
brian
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parlor, thanks, sounds ideal. Being used to my XXXLs, I don't want to give up that super reliable crud busting feel. Weight not an issue.
So, never having seen me ski  , 190 or 197?
Googlage suggests it skis short and since I'm 6'3", 14st+ I'm thinking the 197 is worth a punt?
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brian, do you really think parlor is going to recommend anything other than the longest available?
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brian
brian
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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brian, sweet as bananas...
on the Katanas, I reckon the 197s would be sweet in the Zinal freeride zone but less so in tight trees. i have some Dynstar XXLs in 194 and they are great if you have room but hard work if you need to do fiddly stuff at low speed. they aren't really an essential part of my quiver but there is something reassuring about having a big straight ski there "just in case" 
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brian
brian
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Arno, the Katana is by all accounts a fair step down in stiffness from an XXL and has rocker so it should be a little more manageable? Having said that, I do love a big wide open slope.
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You know it makes sense.
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rocker would certainly make them easier in tight spots
XXLs aren't ridiculously stiff (esp if your benchmark is stockli) but they do have a big camber so you need to bend em to get em to turn easily
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
but I think maybe a little too fat...
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Poster: A snowHead
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horizon, PM sent.
Next years Faction line up
Arno, having discovered tree skiing this winter I can now see the point of extending ones quiver to enjoy something a little more effete.
brian, not sure how easy it is to get your hands on the 197cm. My initial reaction was you might be better with the 190cm, but then I re-read your stats. A friend of mine, a chic - albeit a ripping ex-mogul champion ripping chic, skis them in a 183cm. I think the choice would come down to, ski them everyday - 190cm, ski them on "those days" in "the bowl of love" the 197cm would be wicked sick.
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brian
brian
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parlor, thanks. Both 190s and 197s available through the magic that is german google. 197s can actually be found cheaper atm. Decisions, decisions ...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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brian, no longer a decision. Get the longer ones, them being cheaper doesn't matter if you use them one day less than you might have if you brought the gay, sorry, shorter, ones...
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brian, why Katana over Kuro (or other proper Rocker)? Have you had a chance to try them? I sold LP's this year as they were getting no use. I know XXL / Katana is wider but IMHO you will lose the Amazing performance of the Rocker in powder, wind crust and Spring heavy to get a smoother ride in crud. I think that's a bad compromise for Valais skiing conditions. I base this on LP / XXL experience. Haven't skied Katana.
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brian
brian
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BobinCH, no I haven't tried them, nor am I likely to get the chance too, unfortunately. The 2010 Katana was a redesign with Voelkl's ELP rocker (as for the new Gotama and the Kuro) though obviously not as pronounced as the Kuro. XXL has no rocker and in fact a considerable normal camber, Katana is basically flat underfoot with a gradual rocker starting a long way back. Whatever I buy I will still be doing a reasonable amount of family piste skiing as well as heading off so this seems like a good compromise.
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I didn't ski the Kuro either but the Katana sounds like more fun to me too.
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brian
brian
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'd always take a proper pow ski + all mountain ski over something middle ish like the Katana personally - if you can take two pairs, may as well have a proper soft snow ski.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| DaveC wrote: |
| I'd always take a proper pow ski + all mountain ski over something middle ish like the Katana personally - if you can take two pairs, may as well have a proper soft snow ski. |
Unless you have variable conditions during the same run...
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brian
brian
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fatbob,  To be fair, I struggled to get anything over 180 there, let alone 190.
DaveC, how are your 140-112-122 fairly flat, rockered tip Lhasas particularly different from the 141-111-131 fairly flat, rockered tip Katana?
horizon, made your purchase yet?
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brian, tip profile, stiffness, weight, tail profile. By that reasoning DPS 120s are quite similar to Katanas too, no, at 140-120-125? Lhasas are pretty borderline, but I do teach on them too so feel I have to stay reasonably conventional. Picking a ski will always come down to splitting hairs if you're going by widths alone. horizon, not convinced any fat ski would be much better than another on ice/refrozen, what other variable conditions are you thinking of?
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You know it makes sense.
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So what's the quiver now and planned usage Brian???
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brian
brian
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DaveC, fair enough, however when PM Gear are saying:
"The first true carbon/fiberglass rockered one-ski quiver has arrived"
"this ski has 3mm of positive camber and a GS sidecut on a 140-112-122 dimension for insanely enhanced all terrain transcendence."
"It clears the path for the rest of this semi-pintail’s ample shovelprint through crud, crust, cake, deep powder and hardpack."
... it's maybe pushing it a bit to call it a "proper pow ski".
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brian
brian
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kitenski,
190 Katana plus Dukes will be my everyday ski.
188 Stormrider XXXL plus Naxos will probably stay in Scotland.
181 Recons when off piste not happening (early season or bulletproof).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| DaveC wrote: |
| horizon, not convinced any fat ski would be much better than another on ice/refrozen, what other variable conditions are you thinking of? |
Well on a typical day out in our beloved Alps, I could get:
- light powder (if I'm very lucky)
- heavy powder
- really heavy wet mank - tracked or untracked
- breakable crust
- refrozen - tracked or untracked
- ice
- several of the above, in trees
...not sure we're arguing here, my point is that for these conditions you need a versatile fattish ski (old fat = new midfat, around 110). I hope to find out this year that rocker = much better performance in these conditions.
brian, I think I'm getting two pairs, just for the heck of it. Paid the deposit on 190 DPS 112 RP Hybrids and still want the ON3P Wrenegades
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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brian, quoting marketing blurb is almost like you have something to prove? Given that's as meaningless as the next blurb that calls a 75mm K2 Apache Something a "one ski quiver" anyway. I do think the Lhasa might scrape into the "proper pow ski" catagory, since while it's versatile, it handles the conditions I found reverse/reverse excelling in well without the ballache of surviving traverses and groomers. Same concept as the DPS 120 but toned down a little bit. I didn't realise you'd bought Katanas, but I don't think there's anything wrong with them - ironically I'd of thought Katanas would be a much better one ski quiver than the Lhasa can ever be, down to it's more conventional profile.
My quiver for week holidays would be pretty different anyway, I'd almost definitely go something 90-100mm conventional and something like a DPS138/Night Train.
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horizon, I'd warn against writing off the fatter skis as less versatile - the skis that perform well on soft snow will actually be more rewarding in stuff like wet mank, breakable crust, etc - they're a bit worse on boilerplate, harder work on groomers, and a matter of preference on which you hate least in refrozen. fwiw, Fernie often has a pretty big variation in conditions nearly always down to a freezing level only reaching halfway up so I'm not just obliviously expecting constant blower.
Didn't see you'd ordered the RP's - I think they'll be a great ski, very similar to the Lhasa in blending the pow performance with versatility, and I'm going to guess charging capability too, to make it pleasant most of the time to ski. If you're looking for another soft snow ski I'd definitely look at the hybrid style skis - Praxis Protest, JJ, Moment Night Train, just a bit more on the Spatula side than the conventional will give you a lot more option - these skis really excel where the conventional shape struggles a bit, heavier snow, crust and trees.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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DaveC, lol the Grizzlycorn is pretty sick. Think I've decided that if I don't win the Wailer 112RP in the competition DPS were/are running, I'll get whichever is cheaper out of the Moment Night Trains (which should be available from Ellis Brigham) or the 0N3P Billy Goats, which are actually pretty reasonably priced until you pay import duty and shipping.
That'll give me a quiver of:
188 (or relevant similar size) of one of the above for pow
176 Big Troubles (92mm waist) with Barons for everyday
165 (too short) Sultan 85's for teaching or when confined to hard/icy pistes
Which will have me pretty sorted for everything, next year I'll probably add a GS cheater fro exams as well.
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if anything you can get something even stiffer because you don't need to worry so much about decambering the ski to get the tips up
ask Parlor about his Faction 13s
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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one you get them on edge, the rocker engages
and when you are in soft snow the whole of the surface area of the ski will engage
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FAQ
) and I could never imagine going away and taking only the Kuros with me. Kuros look great for lucky so and sos who live near the mountains and choose which of their quiver they are going to ski on the day in question (or for people who can leave their quiver in the cave of their ski appartment 
Was a very popular ski for everyday among Tahoe non-spancered locals it seemed.
